Hollingers crazy playoff odds are back

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by dpc, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. dpc

    dpc BBF refugee

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Minneapolis,Fargo
  2. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    0%...For the Clips...really...right...

    but I guess its all done with math and no opinion...thats still BS
     
  3. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,290
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Hollinger is the worst and is desperate attempt to be relavent with his forumla's is downright pathetic. I have zero respect for this guys thoughts/opinions and stats.
     
  4. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    I ALWAYS hear stuff like this about Hollinger and any other national sports reporter. Is there ANYONE who ISNT bashed on forums like these? Im not saying you are right or wrong on your opinion...Im yet to see a reporter get anyone get any kind of consistent praise like Hollinger gets consistent hate
     
  5. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,290
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Hey I love Peter King and Bill Simmons, but as for a solid writer you can count on for serious predictions/insight.. nahh most are blowhards who are guessing as much as the next guy and have biases as well IMO.
     
  6. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Is that how they got the job? :drumroll:
     
  7. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    10,701
    Likes Received:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I think it's kinda cool. Assuming teams play as they have, and the rest of the league plays as it has so far, how would the season end?

    Of course a weird game or two in the first ten can make a huge difference, but it's an interesting thing to look at even with such a small sample size.

    Ed O.
     
  8. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    10,701
    Likes Received:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    What biases are there in PER and Hollinger's other equations?

    Ed O.
     
  9. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    sigh...my bold prediction of the Clips make the playoffs and PHX not isnt looking too good according to his equations...

    PHX chance: 98.9%
    LAC chance 0%
    :dunno:
     
  10. MIXUM

    MIXUM Suspended

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,983
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    radio/mixmaster/club jock/syndication programmer
    Location:
    lurking in the shadows
    hey..if we get the 6th seed...id take that in a heartbeat AND getting to play the hornets in round 1? SIGN ME UP!

    like i said for weeks.....2 teams out of these 4 get in the playoffs.

    warriors, spurs, blazers, mavs

    you pick which 2. its really anyones spot
     
  11. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    10,701
    Likes Received:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yep. The Clippers are 1-9 and they haven't played the toughest schedule in the universe. If they continue to play at that level it makes sense they have something approaching a 0% chance of making the playoffs.

    Ed O.
     
  12. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Its good to see my Lakers might squeak in there...
     
  13. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,290
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    48
    they don't take into account intangibile, such as hustle, leadership, setting picks, assiting on double teams, making the extra pass.. you know things you learn by watching players and teams :cheers:
     
  14. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Student.
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    Indeed I would like to know as well. It may not be 100% accurate but it gives a good gist normally.
     
  15. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    10,701
    Likes Received:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    How is that biased?

    It might make them INACCURATE, but I don't see a bias against certain teams, let alone an intentional one.

    Ed O.
     
  16. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Well there are no way you can put those things into an equation form.

    Hollinger isnt the end all be all, but it gives a lot of good information IMO
     
  17. timmay

    timmay Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yup.

    Pretty much every little thing that happens on a baseball field is trapped into some kind of a stat. That's why sabermetrics are becoming huge there fast.

    But there's lots of activity on the basketball court that is not captured anywhere. There's no statistic that showed how James Jones adjusted the Blazers' defensive spacing. There's no stat that shows the players who sat there pump-faking Oden (unsuccessfully) during the game. Yes, there's a stat for points in the paint, but that's not representative in Oden's personal stats.

    PER is a good stat for some basic offensive info about players. But it's not a great way to judge two players who provide different services to a team on the court.
     
  18. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    it's simple. he takes how the teams have performed thus far this season(using his power rankings forumla) and using those rankings simulates the remainder of the season 5000 times to get the projected outcomes.

    it definitely isn't perfect as it doesn't take into account injuries and assumes teams are going to play at the same level they have played at thus far, but as long as you realize the flaws in the system it's an interesting thing to look at.
     
  19. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    those don't make them biased towards specific players or teams.

    obviously any rating system is going to be flawed. just using stats doesn't tell the whole story and it's impossible to involve personal opinion without some biases.

    but as long as you know what his stats represent, they are very useful.
     
  20. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    While I agree that baseball is better suited for statistical analysis (since, despite being technically a team sport, baseball is really a series of one-on-one competitions), I think there are stats that make an effort at capture such things, like Adjusted +/-, which gives you an idea of which players are having a positive impact or negative impact on the court (for any reason...if their leadership, floor spacing, whatever, is having an impact, it should show up on the scoreboard when they're on the floor).

    Straight +/- is extremely flawed, since backups play against worse players and with worse teammates, but Adjusted +/- stats attempt to adjust for that.

    PER is useful for exactly what it claims to be for: a measure of individual overall production. It doesn't claim to account for intangibles or for general defense. It's purely a production stat. You have to account, yourself, for defense or intangibles (if you think intangibles are a key aspect).
     

Share This Page