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Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by maxiep, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. 44Thrilla

    44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

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    See post above.
     
  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Holy inconsistency, batman! So you are willing to give Richardson a pass, but all other members of the Clinton administration are tainted by that association?

    What makes Richardson so special? What makes everyone else guilty?

    barfo
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I was expecting change, not change back.
     
  4. 44Thrilla

    44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

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    No you weren't, you're just trying to be a wise guy.
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You're right. I am used to being lied to by democrats and for people to apologize for them after the fact. It's hilarious ;)
     
  6. 44Thrilla

    44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

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    No.
     
  7. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    He's bringing a LOT of big names. These are all guys that we've heard before. Richardson, Napolitano, Daschle, Clinton.

    I don't like Holder. This is the guy that tried to keep DC's absolutely unconstitutional and disgraceful handgun ban in place, and was one of the ones behind the raid for Elian Gonzales. You know, the one where a bunch of INS agents with machine guns pointed at the boy and the adoptive father with the cameras flashing scaring the kid half to death. Brilliant.
     
  8. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    He said he was going to not only change from the Bush administration, but change the way Washington works.

    So far he's bought in Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, Bill Richardson, Rahm Emanuel, and Eric Holder. He is expected to keep Robert Gates on. All Washington guys.
     
  9. 44Thrilla

    44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

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    True, but he's not in office yet so we have no idea how things are going to work. You guys are jumping the gun.
     
  10. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Well, if Obama "institutes socialism," I hope you all will remember nothing has changed, because you've heard of his cabinet appointees before.

    Obama's a radical Marxist and we're a completely capitalist society. It's an outrage! In addition, he's exactly the same as everyone else. He's going to destroy this country with extreme socialism, the likes of which this country has never seen before. Plus, his cabinet appointees show it's going to be politics as usual. We're going to resemble Europe. But he won't change anything.

    Conservatives have definitely changed. They used to have a monotonously consistent set of talking points. Now they can't make their talking points agree.
     
  11. lukewarmplay

    lukewarmplay Hired Goons

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    Wow, that is a bold and very likely non-verifiable claim. I'm no fan of the Clinton white house, but Nixon was an out-and-out thug.
     
  12. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Ah, this tactic is one of my favorites. You diminish the actual points being made by accusing them of being "talking points". Unlike the lockstep orthodoxy of the Left, we that are right of center agree to disagree on a number of issues. We like free thought.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Count the special investigators/investigations.

    I think Richardson was the only cabinet member not under investigation.

    #2 man in the DoJ went to prison.

    <center> The A to Z Guide of Clinton Scandals

    </center> Whitewatergate, Travelgate, Cattlegate and now Indonesiagate . . . there seems to be more gates in the Clinton White House than on the barns of America.
    So just in case you've lost track of the scandals that have hit this current White House, The Post's Deborah Orin and Thomas Galvin have pieced together your cut-out-and-keep A to Z guide of Clinton scandals . . from Arkansas to Zippers.
    <font=7>A</font=7> is for Arkansas, where Bill Clinton got his political start, where Hillary Rodham Clinton worked at Rose Law Firm, and where Whitewater began as a land deal between the Clintons and Jim and Susan McDougal.
    <font=7>B</font=7> is for Billing-gate, Hillary Clinton's missing law-billing records. Those records -- which raised questions about Mrs. Clinton's role in the Castle Grande deal -- were subpoenaed in 1994. They were missing until early 1996, when they turned up in a White House room next to her office. She says she doesn't know how they got there.
    <font=7>C</font=7> is for Cattlegate, Hillary Clinton's mysterious ability to turn a $1,000 investment into a $100,000 profit on cattle futures, a feat experts say was virtually impossible in normal trading.
    C is also for Castle Grande, a real-estate scheme that federal regulators say was a sham. A federal inspector general's report found Hillary Clinton drew up the legal papers that were used to improperly funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars to Seth Ward, father-in-law of her ex-law partner Webster Hubbell.
    <font=7>D</font=7> is for Billy Dale, the career head of the White House Travel Office, who was fired along with six other career staffers, to make way for Clinton cronies in Travelgate. The White House then brought in the FBI to justify the firing, and Dale was hit with criminal charges that wrecked his life for two years. A jury cleared him in just two hours.
    <font=7>E</font=7> is for Mike Espy, the former agriculture secretary who was forced out over charges that he got gifts and favors from Arkansas-based Tyson foods, whose owners were longtime Clinton backers. A special counsel has brought several indictments, though not against Espy.
    <font=7>F</font=7> is for Filegate, the improper White House rummaging through 900 FBI files on Republican officials in the Bush and Reagan administration. The White House says it was an innocent snafu. Republicans suspect an enemies list. Whitewater independent counsel Ken Starr and several congressional committees are probing.
    <font=7>G</font=7> is for Golfgate, ex-White House aide David Watkins' improper use of presidential helicopters for a personal golf outing. He was forced to resign. In the 1992 presidential campaign, Clinton aides tried to use taxpayer funds to help settle a sexual harassment case filed by a fellow campaign worker against Watkins.
    <font=7>H</font=7> is for Hillary Clinton, whose role has been questioned in Filegate, Travelgate, Billing-gate, Whitewater and Castle Grande. She denies any wrongdoing.
    H is also for Hubbell, in jail after pleading guilty to bilking law clients on charges brought by Whitewater independent counsel Starr. Hubbell was previously the associate attorney general, the No. 3 Justice Department office.
    <font=7>I</font=7> is for Indonesiagate, featuring the Lippo group, a firm with long-standing ties to Bill Clinton, Clinton cronies and Arkansas. Republicans want to know why an Indonesian couple -- of apparently modest means -- with ties to Lippo gave $452,000 to the Democratic National Committee and what the firm may have gotten in return. Lippo also hired Hubbell, at a reported fee of $250,000, for the five months when he left the White House and went to jail.
    <font=7>J</font=7> is for Paula Jones, who accuses President Clinton of sexual harassment, saying he dropped his pants and asked for oral sex in an Arkansas hotel room while he was governor and she was a state employee. The U.S. Supreme Court will rule this fall on whether her case must wait until after Clinton leaves office, as he demands.
    <font=7>K</font=7> is for William Kennedy, another ex-Hillary Clinton law partner who became a White House lawyer and was forced to resign after concealing his failure to pay nanny taxes. He was reprimanded for his role in Travelgate.
    <font=7>L</font=7> is for Craig Livingstone, the ex-bar bouncer with a history of drug use who was the head of White House security. Two FBI agents say it was Hillary Clinton who demanded his hiring, which she denies. Disgraced Clinton political guru Dick Morris's hooker pal, Sherry Rowlands, claims Morris told her a "paranoid" Hillary Clinton was behind Filegate. He says he only told her that's what polls show.
    <font=7>M</font=7> is for Jim and Susan McDougal, the Clintons' Whitewater partners, both of whom have been convicted of fraud. Jim McDougal is said to be helping Whitewater independent counsel Starr. Susan McDougal is in jail for refusing to say whether President Clinton lied when he denied knowing about an illegal $300,000 loan to bail out Whitewater. The loan wasn't repaid, and taxpayers were left holding the bag.
    M is also for disgraced political guru Dick Morris.
    <font=7>N</font=7> is for Bernard Nussbaum, the former White House lawyer who barred federal investigators from searching Vince Foster's office after Foster's death. Nussbaum also withheld Foster's diary on Travelgate problems from federal probers for more than a year. Nussbaum was forced to resign for botching damage-control efforts.
    <font=7>O</font=7> is for Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary, the frequent flier who drew up an enemies list of reporters, hired an image consultant at taxpayer expense, and has run up huge tabs on overseas trips.
    <font=7>P</font=7> is for Pardons, which President Clinton has refused to rule out for individuals like Susan McDougal who potentially could provide evidence against him.
    P is also for White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta, expected to leave in a second Clinton term -- with the prospect that his deputy, Harold Ickes, could replaces him. Senate Republicans want perjury charges brought against Ickes for his answers on Whitewater damage control.
    <font=7>Q</font=7> is for all the questions -- unanswered -- on Whitewater, Filegate, Travelgate, Cattlegate and Billgate.
    <font=7>R</font=7> is for Sherry Rowlands, the $200-an-hour hooker who revealed her ongoing affair with Clinton political guru Dick Morris, the author of Clinton's family-values strategy, forcing Morris to resign.
    R is also for the Rose Law Firm, where Hillary Clinton, Vince Foster, Webster Hubbell and William Kennedy were partners, as was Joseph Giroir, a key figure in the Lippo group.
    <font=7>S</font=7> is for Kenneth Starr, the Whitewater independent counsel probing Filegate, Travelgate and Vince Foster's death. He has won 15 convictions or guilty pleas, including both McDougals and former Arkansas Gov. Jim Guy Tucker, who was forced to resign. Starr says his probes are active and ongoing, and there is widespread speculation he will have more indictments after the election, possibly including one of Hillary Clinton.
    <font=7>T</font=7> is for Travelgate, the Clintons' firing of career travel staffers like Billy Dale to make way for Clinton cronies. White House memos say Hillary Clinton was behind the firings -- she denies it -- and that she was spurred on by Clinton Hollywood pal Harry Thomason, who was seeking a piece of the lucrative White House charter business.
    <font=7>U</font=7> is for undue influence and the question of whether that is what Lippo was seeking though megabucks contributions to Democrats. Lippo has close ties to Indonesia's brutal dictatorship, responsible for near-genocide in East Timor, which it occupied two decades ago.
    <font=7>V</font=7> is for Vince Foster, the former Hillary Clinton law partner who became a White House lawyer and was found dead, an apparent suicide with a gunshot wound to the head. He apparently was a central figure in Travelgate and Filegate and handled Whitewater matters for the Clintons. Starr is examining his death and has yet to confirm former prober Bob Fiske's conclusion that it was a suicide in the park where Foster was found.
    <font=7>W</font=7> is for Whitewater, the Arkansas land deal that started it all, with questions about whether the Clintons improperly benefitted from funds Jim McDougal's Madison Guarantee savings-and-loan, which went belly up, costing taxpayers an estimated $60 million.
    <font=7>X</font=7> is for the Xeroxed copy of Hillary Clinton's law billing records that were found in the white House book room, two years after they were first sought. The pages had Mrs. Clinton's fingerprints around the section on Castle Grande - there were red ink notations in the late Vince Foster's handwriting.
    <font=7>Y</font=7> is for the the young White House aides who were hired by the Clinton administration despite FBI background checks that found "recent" use of hard drugs like cocaine, crack and hallucinogens.
    <font=7>Z</font=7> is for zippers -- the one Paula Jones claims that the then-Arkansas governor undid (see J) and the one Gennifer Flowers claims Clinton undid during what she insists was a long-running affair. He denies the claims.
    [Source: The New York Post, Wednesday October 16, 1996]
     
  14. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Clearly you like it, you did a similar thing to Dumpy, diminishing his position by claiming he's "drunk the kool-aid and will now defend anything Obama does." But let me guess...it's different when you do it? :)

    I wasn't diminishing your talking points by labeling them as such. I was diminishing them pointing out the silly contradiction. If Obama is a socialist steamroller, will you consider that "change?" Or do you already feel that the US is a socialist nation?

    Actually, the exact opposite is usually alleged...generally as a criticism of the Democrats, by Republicans. The Republicans are better at communicating a single message around which their base can organize, while the Democrats are plagued by different approaches by every party member, leading to a splintered base.
     
  15. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    How are we jumping the gun?

    All these guys in his cabinet are Washington people. He said he was going to fundamentally change Washington.

    Is it not fair to ask how you can fundamentally change something using the thing you're changing?
     
  16. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Since they will work to his ends, do his appointments really matter on that score? How he governs will determine if he's actually different from any previous President. That he's assembling experienced people who most believe are effective at getting things doesn't seem to tell us much other than that he wants to get things done.
     
  17. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    Hillary is a good pick, I'm happy. :)
     
  18. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    In summary, Obama is now:
    - A marxist
    - A socialist
    - A muslim
    - A christian radical
    - A black panther
    - A terrorist
    - An elitist
    - A celebrity
    - A man who stands for nothing
    and now.....


    - Exactly like Bill Clinton.


    When he told us "change" was coming, I hadn't realized it meant there'd be a new right-wing label every week.
     
  19. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    To be fair, Bill Clinton was also called many of those things.
     
  20. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I didn't diminish his point as "talking points". I merely said that he will now find any way to defend President-Elect Obama, even if it means redefining "change", which was the cornerstone of his campaign.

    You saw a contradiction that doesn't exist. You should stop being so paranoid. There's a difference between promising to bring a new tone to Washington and the policies he'll try to enact. If he wants to bring a new tone to DC, why is he overwhelmingly hiring people who helped define divisive politics?

    As for his policies, my guess is he'll let the Clinton dogs loose to do what they always wanted to, but were restrained by a truly intelligent president.

    Yep. I'm glad you picked up on the irony. The fact is that those of us right-of-center on this board have much more divergent beliefs than those on this board who believe themselves to be on the left. Go figure.
     

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