Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers Which "statement of fact" are you referring to, exactly? (please provide a link). Everyone is waiting? Can you provide a link to back up that "statement of fact"? I don't know. What are you talking about, anyway? Made what up? barfo
Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers My opinion doesn't do anything to establish intent. My opinion is not admissible in a court of law. I agree. I do not think they intended to cause a riot. If I get drunk and run you over with my Hummer, is it ok as long as I didn't intend to hurt you? The police officers, not Rodney King, would have been a better choice for that analogy. barfo
Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers I am not a lawyer, but I watch enough tv to know that this analogy doesn't apply. You getting drunk and running over someone with a Hummer is something that you risk doing by drinking. That is a reasonable thing for you to know is possible. Knowing that people will get killed by having a good Christmas sale is quite a stretch. What if someone got killed at a pre election Obama gathering? Would Obama be in jail now? Back to Rodney King, he should have known that it was possible that the police would pull him over because he is black. He should have stayed home forever because of the possibility that a riot would start. I guess we should all stop doing everything and stay home. WalMart is a fucked up company IMO but saying that they were criminal in what they did is silly.
There are easily ways in which Walmart might be found liable in my opinion...I'm not syaing they are, just that without the facts it is not as cut and dried / black and white as you might think at 1st. These are hypotheticals...they may or may not be true, but if they are, I think Wal-Mart WOULD be partially liable for the death: If they created an event where an anxious mob of 2000 people assembles outside their door, they have seen that in past years the event is unruly and the people enter in a semi-frenzy, they have had injuries (though less serious) in prior years, they do nothing to manage the crowd and don't use crowd control techniques such as fences, security, an organized presence outside the store, no organized que, etc. If some or all of that is true, I think a reasonable person would realize that a more serious injury would be likely...and they'd be liable. Even more damaging would be if they made a conscious decision to allow these minor mob scenes to take place in the name of free publicity. Of course they didn't expect someone to be killed...but the mass crowd shots that are shown on the TV news each year always mention the store and that the deals are so good people are lining up outside the store... Just food for thought... Past incidents: http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/2...t-for-2005-black-friday-pepper-spray-incident http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=3582174 <--some PS3 some Black Fri. http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/2814/black-friday-more-than-i-bargained
This pisses me off that people want to sue the store over this! Are you people serious! People have their own minds and chose to break down the door. PEOPLE trampled the guy to death, not a corporation.
Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers What if my business, as a promotion, said that the first 3 people in the door the Friday after Thanksgiving would receive $10 million cash? And let's assume that I provided no crowd control whatsoever. Would you assert that I was completely blameless if someone got hurt? Isn't the difference between that and WalMart just a matter of degree? It's hard to imagine a scenario where Obama himself would be in jail. However, if he knowingly failed to provide adequate crowd control, his organization might be liable. barfo
Re: OT: Walmart worker killed by frenzied shoppers Yes, unless you lied about the money. And I guarantee someone would get hurt, but that's to be expected when you're talking instant riches. Black Friday sales are historically higher prices than you will see 3 weeks from now, so only an idiot who has allowed themselves to be brainwashed by advertisers would waste the gas to participate. Maybe that makes it a violation of the ADA? Or a hate crime against retards? Had they all managed to trample each other to death, leaving no survivors, the average American IQ would have spiked a bit.
Oh jesus....Yes he would! Its a different situation. You can tell its a different situation than the Walmart one by doing one thing. Use common sense! Common sense says if you are gonna give 3 people 10 mil each first come first served then YES...there will be problems with the crowd control Common sense DOES NOT say if you have a black friday sale you are aiding in starting a riot/trampling. Might as well stop letting people go to sporting events. Getting a large group of people together is the first stage of a riot!
And yet, there were clearly problems with crowd control at WalMart. Apparently your common sense is not a good predictor of riots. If you get a large group of people together, and fail to provide crowd control appropriate for the situation, you run the risk of having a riot. WalMart clearly did not provide adequate crowd control. WalMart gathered the crowd. And yet you hold them blameless. barfo
For holding a black friday sale like 1000's of other shops...yes...they are completely blameless. The actual people who trampled him are to blame. Yes it will be hard to say which "shoppers" started the frenzied pushing but its still those PEOPLES fault and nobody/company else.
The crowd gathered itself, they were not rounded up like some cattle drive. Most were there before WalMart was even open. WalMart advertised low prices. So did Sears, Target and shops on Rodeo Drive. Larger crowds gathered in thousands of places all over America at the same time, at many other WalMarts even, and yet none of them murdered anyone. These particular persons (murderers, IMO) chose to shop at WalMart. Maybe it's a real bad neighborhood with a higher concentration of real bad people. That's the most likely explanation. WalMart is open 365 days a year, in hundreds of cities, and has never had anything like this happen before. Never. What are the odds that dozens, maybe hundreds of murderers would gather at this place at this time and murder a complete stranger? How could anyone anticipate that? They need to arrested, prosecuted, and punished as any other murderer would be.
Of course it is those people's fault. No one would deny that. That's not at all clear to me. I'd have to know more about what, if any, crowd control measures they took. From the results, I think it is reasonable to assume that their measures were inadequate. barfo
And yet this happened. If the conditions were the same everywhere, why did it happen there? If so, was WalMart unaware that this store was located in a bad neighborhood? Were they unaware of the type of people who were their likely customers that Friday morning? Now you are back to arguing that it was just chance, and could have happened anywhere, at any store. Either shoppers at that particular WalMart are evil, and thus this could have been prevented, or it was a random event that could have happened anywhere (all shoppers are potential murderers). Well, probably manslaughter or something, not murder, but I agree they need to be punished. barfo
