Better Player: Devin Harris or Brandon Roy?

harris can't take over a game more than roy can.

 

If Harris can take a game over so much better than Roy why are they only 9-8? Is he a lazy bum?

The answer to the 2nd question is No - and this should lead you to the conclusion of the first question. Roy can take over a game, night in, night out, the way few people came - and Harris, as good as he is (and I am a big fan) - is not one of those people.

As for getting FT - let's remember that these numbers should really be adjusted for pace - Harris is getting to the line a lot - Roy plays on the slowest team in the NBA - so his numbers a little less representative of his ability to get to the FT line. You also need to remember that Roy is pretty much automatic in the mid-range jumper - he just does not need to attack the rim as much to get his points.

 

Harris' jumper this year is much better than in prior seasons, he actually has a slightly higher jumpshot percentage.

Harris is still averaging 53+ points per 48 minutes in clutch situations at a superior percentage, compared to 46 for Roy. There is nothing wrong with Harris' ability to take over. And DH isn't getting assisted either, he's creating this offense almost completely on his own without just jacking up a shot.

Even Pace-Adjusted DH's efficiency is still quite remarkable, that is what gives him the edge for now. Harris does not play on an extremely fast paced team either, the difference in foul drawing rate is still very noticeable. DH is at 23% while Roy is at 14%.

 

Who did the Nets trade him to?

 

This is clear bullcrap - if there was nothing wrong with Harris's ability to take over - they would win more games. Scoring points in the 4th does not equate to taking over. Taking over means willing his team to win using whatever tools necessary for the job - and the Nets record is proof positive that he can not take over games the way Roy does.

 

I am alo interested in seeing stats somewhere that show the difference in and 1 plays, a good number of Roy shots go in, giving him 1 free throw, versus drive and flop plays which yield more free throw attempts.

 

The Nets are 9-5 when Harris plays. He missed three games, all losses. Out of their remaining losses, one came at Staples against the Lakers, one against Phoenix in NJ when Phoenix shot 63.2% from the field and 66.7% from three, and another against the Cavs in NJ, who shot 58.8% from three. Those are all pretty much unwinnable games for a team like the Nets. All three games were basically over by the beginning of the 4th, and Harris couldn't do a thing to change that fact.

Another flaw in your logic is the fact that the Blazers have a much more talented team than the Nets. Using their records as evidence isn't really fair to Harris. If his teammates were better, they'd win more games. Plain and simple.

 

Again I say, isn't Carter being guarded by the other teams best defender? Just like Roy? Leaving there 2nd best defender to guard Harris.

 

Harris has been doing better. Why would the other team's best defensive guard defend the lesser player out of the two?

 

Wasn't it only after a few games into this year that people are starting to think Harris MIGHT BE better than VC?

You can't tell me Harris was a better player than Carter last year. On reputation alone I believe the best defender on the other team would be guarding Carter (at least to start the season)

 

At the start of the season, yes. Harris wasn't even close to Roy's production at the start of the season.

The game he got injured (vs Detroit at home), he started to dominate. The he dropped 30 on Atlanta. After that, I'm pretty sure other teams paid as much or more attention to him than to VC.

EDIT: The Detroit game was the 4th game of the season, after a win against Washington and two losses to Golden State and the aforementioned Suns.

 

huh? I never said anything about Roy. I'm talking about Carter and Harris.

 

I know. This thread is a comparison between Harris and Roy though, so I pointed out that in the first few games of the season, Roy was much more productive than Harris.

 

The Blazers with Roy are 0.700 - the Nets with Harris are 0.64

The Blazers lost one game at LAL with Oden getting wounded in the first 3 minutes of the game, one in Utah without Oden when Utah still had Boozer and AK47 playing, 2 in Phoenix (one without Oden), one in NOH (Oden just back from Injury) and one in GSW (pretty questionable loss with the Refs decidedly swallowing their whistles for one side of the court.

Your arguments just do not hold water - you do not see the Blazers being blown by a 2-12 team at home by 20 when Roy is playing. When the Blazers play crappy against teams they are better then - Roy wills them to a close win (as they did against the Kings).

The Blazers team might be deeper than the Nets - but the Blazers have pretty much one All-Star caliber player on the roster (Roy) and NJN have 2 (with Carter). The Blazers might be more talented - but they are younger, play 3 rookies heavy minutes and have had to play a nice amount of the schedule without their prize rookie (Oden) and have yet to log one minute this year by their starter SF (Webster).

You want to tell me that Harris is a more explosive scorer - no problems, you want to tell me that he scores more in the 4th - fine, you want to tell me he is having a fantastic year - no issues - but he is simply not able to take over games with the consistency that Roy shows night in night out, no matter how you slice it or dice it.

The only games where Roy did not carry the Blazers in some way shape or form - are the blow-outs - where the game is so out of reach for the other team - that he just lets the other team's players feast - but in all other games - he is doing the heavy lifting night in night out. Add the fact that the Blazers played more road games than the Nets - and it really makes no sense to question Roy's ability to close games and carry a team consistently.

 

So no comments on Carter going against the opponents best defender?

and Harris going against Steve Nash?

 

You're right, Devin Harris didn't take over against Washington. He can't win every game for the Nets. Roy can't win every game for the Blazers either. Neither is Michael Jordan.

The Nets beat the Suns in Phoenix with Harris completely taking over the game. He took over in Sacramento. He took over in Toronto to get the Nets within striking distance, leading to VC winning the game. He played with an injured ankle which caused him to miss three games against the Pistons and completely dominated them. Then he returned from his injury and demolished the Hawks on back-to-back nights, scoring 63 points in two games. That's enough evidence that he can consistently take over a game.

Even without Oden and Webster, the Blazers are much, much more talented than the Nets. Vince Carter is an all-star caliber player, sure. But can you really compare Roy's supporting cast to Harris's? Jerryd Bayless would be the Nets' first or second player off the bench. He barely gets PT for the Blazers. The Nets are a very young team too. They have a rookie starting, another one as a key bench player, another just returning from injury who is set to be a key player off the bench as well, a sophomore starting and another getting big minutes off the bench as well. Not to mention Josh Boone, another major bench player who's out with an injury. The Blazers may have more young players than the Nets, but the only ones who really contribute and get meaningful minutes are Roy, Fernandez, Batum, Oden, Aldridge, Outlaw and sometimes Rodriguez. When Webster comes back, at least two of those guys will lose minutes. That's more youth than the Nets, for sure, but the difference isn't nearly big enough to make a difference.

 

That not enough?

You're right, though. Harris may not always go up against the other team's best defender, usually because the other team's best defender is usually too slow and big to guard him , but so far he's ALWAYS been the focal point of the opposition's defense.

 

Well I guess we will see when they go against the spurs then, If Bowen is guarding Carter then my thoughts are correct.

And he hasn't ALWAYS been the focal point of the oppositions defense, thats ridiculous. At the beginning of the year nobody thought Harris would be as good as he has been except for Nets fans

BTW, I didn't know Nash was the best defender on the Suns. Thats news to me

 

Got one!

 

I'm not talking about the beginning of the year...this thread is about now. I thought that was pretty clear...

Nash is not the best defender on the Suns. That's why I said that Harris isn't always guarded by the best defender, but he's the focal point of the defense.

Bruce Bowen will probably guard Vince Carter, just because he won't stand a chance against Harris's speed.