Here's something to think about...Back in 1990, Jordan was robbed of the MVP award. Magic won it, but Jordan's numbers and his impact on the team, as well as his team record (pretty much considering EVERYTHING here) was astounding.Now...Magic's Lakers won 63 games. If you placed Jordan on that Lakers squad, instead of Magic, you'd think they'd win 70...but no matter what, Magic still won the MVP.Detroit went on to beat the Blazers that year, in the NBA Finals. Jordan (with that same Lakers roster) would've stomped the Pistons.Jordan was robbed again, in 1997...when Malone won the MVP.Jermaine O'Neal and his Pacers won 60+ games two years ago...but he didn't win the MVP.Webber and the Kings won 60+ a few years back, and he didn't come away with the award.Shawn Kemp and the Sonics were a top seed in the West...no MVP for Kemp.It makes me wonder how they judge the MVP...because sometimes it seems like a team award, and sometimes it seems like a "favorite player" award...then it's an individual award for a year, then back to a team award.
I definitely agree that the basis for awarding the MVP award each year changes drastically. They need to clarify the basis for the award better, and stick with it. It's crazy how they'll give it to the best individual player in the league one year, then to the best player on the best team the next, etc.
It's the MVP= Most valuable players. The whole idea of the award is screwed. Dallas without dirk would be decent, as their lineup states. Dirk isn't their PG. Suns without nash would collapse. Cavs without lebron and lakers without Kobe would be the next atlanta and Charlotte.If it's player of the year, the guy who;s been playing the best while on a good team then it's dirk.
That's a joke, Mavs without Dirk would barely make the playoffs. If you watched any game this year, you would see his importance, the team fell apart against the Sixers when Dirk went out. He's the go to guy, and he matters. When he's out, there will be a fall. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If it's player of the year, the guy who;s been playing the best while on a good team then it's dirk.</div>Then take away Duncan's, Shaq's, Jordan's because they won the MVP when their teams was pretty good.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Dirk isn't their PG. Suns without nash would collapse. Cavs without lebron and lakers without Kobe would be the next atlanta and Charlotte.</div>No <Censored> Dirk isn't a pg, neither is Bron or Kobe. What does having to be a pg do with MVP.
Well if you guys are basing it on how a team plays without a certain player than T-Mac is the MVP hands down.The Rockets are 0-13 without McGrady in the line-up. I have never seen a playoff team that has that horrible of a record without there star player. Dont get me wrong I do NOT think McGrady is the MVP I was just posting this because of the argument about mvp voting.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC @ Feb 17 2006, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well if you guys are basing it on how a team plays without a certain player than T-Mac is the MVP hands down.The Rockets are 0-13 without McGrady in the line-up. I have never seen a playoff team that has that horrible of a record without there star player. Dont get me wrong I do NOT think McGrady is the MVP I was just posting this because of the argument about mvp voting.</div>At the same time, when you lose a big part of your offense, you don't win anything either.The Lakers are 0-2 without Kobe Bryant...but with Kobe in the lineup and Odom missing, they are 0-2 as well. That doesn't make Odom an MVP candidate, that just means the Lakers lost two things when they lose Odom: their point-forward, and their leading rebounder, all in one. That's Mitch Kupchak's fault, for not providing the roster with anyone else (besides Kobe) who can handle the ball and/or rebound.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>At the same time, when you lose a big part of your offense, you don't win anything either.The Lakers are 0-2 without Kobe Bryant...but with Kobe in the lineup and Odom missing, they are 0-2 as well. That doesn't make Odom an MVP candidate, that just means the Lakers lost two things when they lose Odom: their point-forward, and their leading rebounder, all in one. That's Mitch Kupchak's fault, for not providing the roster with anyone else (besides Kobe) who can handle the ball and/or rebound</div>0-2 is nothing compared to 0-13.My point is the Rockets are a playoff caliber team. When the star player of a playoff team goes down yes teams struggle but I have never seen a case as bad as this one.They are also 0-3 in games where Mcgrady does not finish.
kobe bryant's nothing more than stats. that's all he cares about. why do you think so many people criticized him for score 81? he's a selfish player and he doesn't get his teammates involved. i hate the guy. i used to like him but since this season i've been sick of how he didn't get along with shaq and how is just plain selfish. if it wasn't for shaq he would have no rings.
shaq can win games and kobe can't. the lakers are only a .500 team. they need kobe to score like 40 points a game. i think that the lakers would've easily beat the nets without kobe. they had a good team then. the nets couldn't stop shaq. i hate kobe more than any player in the nba. he should never be compared with mj either. not even in the same sentence.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Feb 17 2006, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>shaq can win games and kobe can't. the lakers are only a .500 team. they need kobe to score like 40 points a game. i think that the lakers would've easily beat the nets without kobe. they had a good team then. the nets couldn't stop shaq. i hate kobe more than any player in the nba. he should never be compared with mj either. not even in the same sentence.</div>Hahaha...here we go.1) Kobe and Shaq made up on MLK Day.2) Shaq and the Heat are 2-11 against division leaders. Kobe and the Lakers...well, at least they've beaten the Mavs twice this year, once with Kobe all by himself in three quarters.3) The Lakers are a .500 team...and are in the playoffs. Just in case you haven't been around much for the season, the Crawford-led Knicks are 15-37, and would have to go 26-4 in their next 30 to even get a chance at seeing the post season.4) The Lakers need Kobe to score 36 a game, just like the Bulls needed Jordan to score 37 a game. There's one Jordan comparison for you.5) The Nets, Sixers and Pacers couldn't stop Shaq because their centers were named MacCulloch, Mutombo and Smits. Kobe's backcourt opponents? The list included Kidd, Iverson and Reggie Miller. Don't forget who single-handedly beat the Pacers when Shaq sat the bench, by the way.6) The Heat have only 6 less losses than the Lakers do...even though Shaq has Wade, J-Will, Payton, Posey, Walker, Udonis, and Alonzo. Who does Kobe have? Odom...Smush (who wouldn't be in the league if it wasn't for LA), Kwame (same as Smush), Mihm, I don't know...just a bunch of bench players.It's tough being a Laker fan, with all the hate I deal with everyday. I bet it's even tougher being a Knicks fan, with all the losses you guys deal with everyday.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Feb 17 2006, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hahaha...here we go.1) Kobe and Shaq made up on MLK Day.2) Shaq and the Heat are 2-11 against division leaders. Kobe and the Lakers...well, at least they've beaten the Mavs twice this year, once with Kobe all by himself in three quarters.3) The Lakers are a .500 team...and are in the playoffs. Just in case you haven't been around much for the season, the Crawford-led Knicks are 15-37, and would have to go 26-4 in their next 30 to even get a chance at seeing the post season.4) The Lakers need Kobe to score 36 a game, just like the Bulls needed Jordan to score 37 a game. There's one Jordan comparison for you.5) The Nets, Sixers and Pacers couldn't stop Shaq because their centers were named MacCulloch, Mutombo and Smits. Kobe's backcourt opponents? The list included Kidd, Iverson and Reggie Miller. Don't forget who single-handedly beat the Pacers when Shaq sat the bench, by the way.6) The Heat have only 6 less losses than the Lakers do...even though Shaq has Wade, J-Will, Payton, Posey, Walker, Udonis, and Alonzo. Who does Kobe have? Odom...Smush (who wouldn't be in the league if it wasn't for LA), Kwame (same as Smush), Mihm, I don't know...just a bunch of bench players.It's tough being a Laker fan, with all the hate I deal with everyday. I bet it's even tougher being a Knicks fan, with all the losses you guys deal with everyday.</div>yea the only reason the knicks are bad this year is because larry brown is too arrogant to adjust to the knicks strengths. they're not a half-court team, they're a run n gun team but larry doesn't let em do that. don't ever say that the knicks are led by crawford. marbury is their leader. also how can you seriously compare kobe to mj. he won 6 titles with just scottie pippen. who else on that team was legitimately that good. dennis rodman? he just rebounds. they didn't need jordan to score 37 either. he was selfish but he made his teammates better. he passed when he had to and he shot when he had to. also MJ WON GAMES!!!!! remember when the bulls won 72 games? yea that's because of mj. that team wasn't that good but mj made them good. how many games is kobe winning? o yea his team is .500. end of discussion.
I think the whole concept of MVP is screwed. There needs to be an overhaul if Chauncey billups wins the mvp. And no, in 2002 and 2001 i believe the award should've been given to Jason kidd. If it was POTY then yes it would be duncan. They need to make an award for POTY. Player with the best stats on the best team.edit: Oh and guys, Kobe could've won with any other big man in the league. Throw Duncan on that team and you have a 4 peat.And no-one critiscised him after the game. Everyone understodd what he had to do to win. He's team was down and willed them back. That is one of the few games were one player has willed them backed nearly single handedly.edit: nykfan4life, i challenge you to a debate to see how foolish you are about kobe and Michael jordan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Feb 17 2006, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>yea the only reason the knicks are bad this year is because larry brown is too arrogant to adjust to the knicks strengths. they're not a half-court team, they're a run n gun team but larry doesn't let em do that. don't ever say that the knicks are led by crawford. marbury is their leader.</div>What happened last season? Wasn't it your "leader" Marbury that claimed he was the best PG in the league (laughable) and the Knicks went on to lose 18 of 21 games?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Feb 17 2006, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>also how can you seriously compare kobe to mj. he won 6 titles with just scottie pippen. who else on that team was legitimately that good. dennis rodman? he just rebounds. they didn't need jordan to score 37 either. he was selfish but he made his teammates better. he passed when he had to and he shot when he had to. also MJ WON GAMES!!!!! remember when the bulls won 72 games? yea that's because of mj. that team wasn't that good but mj made them good. how many games is kobe winning? o yea his team is .500. end of discussion.</div>Haha...just Scottie Pippen? Scottie Pippen is better than your entire Knicks roster, dude. He was the greatest defender of his time, and arguably in the NBA. Dennis Rodman isn't good? Wow...next to Wilt, Rodman was the greatest rebounder in the league. How old are you? If you watched the Bulls, because I used to be a huge Jordan fan before Kobe came into the league, then you would've never said anything like that above.Give Kobe a Pippen and a Rodman, and you'd see three rings, guaranteed. You know why? Because that would cover for the two things we are lacking right now; defense and a second option...and with Rodman, we get another rebounder up front.You won't win this debate...might as well not even try. I eat hate for breakfast.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 17 2006, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the whole concept of MVP is screwed. There needs to be an overhaul if Chauncey billups wins the mvp. And no, in 2002 and 2001 i believe the award should've been given to Jason kidd. If it was POTY then yes it would be duncan. They need to make an award for POTY. Player with the best stats on the best team.edit: Oh and guys, Kobe could've won with any other big man in the league. Throw Duncan on that team and you have a 4 peat.And no-one critiscised him after the game. Everyone understodd what he had to do to win. He's team was down and willed them back. That is one of the few games were one player has willed them backed nearly single handedly.edit: nykfan4life, i challenge you to a debate to see how foolish you are about kobe and Michael jordan.</div>aright you're saying that kobe is better than jordan? wow haha
No. I said i'll debate you to see how foolish you're thinking is about Kobe bryant and Micahel Jordan. No where did i state Kobe was better than MJ.And did you except my invitation?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Feb 17 2006, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What happened last season? Wasn't it your "leader" Marbury that claimed he was the best PG in the league (laughable) and the Knicks went on to lose 18 of 21 games?Haha...just Scottie Pippen? Scottie Pippen is better than your entire Knicks roster, dude. He was the greatest defender of his time, and arguably in the NBA. Dennis Rodman isn't good? Wow...next to Wilt, Rodman was the greatest rebounder in the league. How old are you? If you watched the Bulls, because I used to be a huge Jordan fan before Kobe came into the league, then you would've never said anything like that above.Give Kobe a Pippen and a Rodman, and you'd see three rings, guaranteed. You know why? Because that would cover for the two things we are lacking right now; defense and a second option...and with Rodman, we get another rebounder up front.You won't win this debate...might as well not even try. I eat hate for breakfast.</div>don't come at me with this crap about the knicks. haha the knicks were 16-13 last year and then crawford got hurt and nazr mohammad got hurt. i watch them. you don't. i know why they fell so deep in a whole. you dont. once everyone was healthy again they were too far behind to make a run at the playoffs. you know nothing about the knicks guy so don't even start with me on that.scottie was not the greatest defender of all time. give me a break. are you serious right now? david robinson, hakeem the dream, ewing, mutombo, even mj was a better defender than he was. i can't believe you really are comparing kobe with mj. kobe is nothing. watch him lose in the first round this year and show that he can't lead his team anywhere. o and watch when marbury is healthy again how much better the knicks will start playing better. he is better than most pg's in the nba, i'm not saying he's the best.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 17 2006, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No. I said i'll debate you to see how foolish you're thinking is about Kobe bryant and Micahel Jordan. No where did i state Kobe was better than MJ.And did you except my invitation?</div>yea i ACCEPT not EXCEPT your invitation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC @ Feb 17 2006, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well if you guys are basing it on how a team plays without a certain player than T-Mac is the MVP hands down.The Rockets are 0-13 without McGrady in the line-up. I have never seen a playoff team that has that horrible of a record without there star player. Dont get me wrong I do NOT think McGrady is the MVP I was just posting this because of the argument about mvp voting.</div>True, but the Knicks are 1-10 without Marbury this year..does that make him a MVP canidate? No. But I understand what you are saying.Anyway definently Kobe for MVP :rock:
[quote name='nykfan4life' post='2860' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:27 PM']don't come at me with this crap about the knicks. haha the knicks were 16-13 last year and then crawford got hurt and nazr mohammad got hurt.[/quote]Fine, and last year, the Lakers were 6th seed in the West until Kobe was injured, and then Odom was out for the year. You use excuses, then I'll do the same.[quote name='nykfan4life' post='2860' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:27 PM']i watch them. you don't. i know why they fell so deep in a whole. you dont. once everyone was healthy again they were too far behind to make a run at the playoffs. you know nothing about the knicks guy so don't even start with me on that.[/quote]And I watch every single Lakers game, 82 a year, so take your own advice.[quote name='nykfan4life' post='2860' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:27 PM']scottie was not the greatest defender of all time. give me a break.[/quote]Pippen was a member of the NBA All-Defensive team from 1991-2000...with seven (count them up if you like) All-Defensive First teams. His defense was the main reason he was named one of the NBA's Greatest Players (50 Greatest). Explain that.[quote name='nykfan4life' post='2860' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:27 PM']kobe is nothing. watch him lose in the first round this year and show that he can't lead his team anywhere.[/quote]Garnett lost in the first round every year he made the playoffs until two years ago. Is Garnett "nothing" to you? Sure, the Lakers will lose in the first round...because they'd have to play the Spurs, Mavs or Suns. 26 other teams would lose against those teams in a series, also (minus the Pistons). Nice analysis. [quote name='nykfan4life' post='2860' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:27 PM']o and watch when marbury is healthy again how much better the knicks will start playing better. he is better than most pg's in the nba, i'm not saying he's the best.[/quote]Marbury has done nothing but prove that he ruins teams. Ask Minnesota, New Jersey and Phoenix...all the teams that have done incredibly well after trading Marbury...for some reason.
