<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe has to much in him for other players to have.</div>For some reason, that sounded very kinky LMAO.
Lol, Lamar Odom isn't realiable on offense. I'm sorry but he isn't, in the last 3 games he's played okay but he usually puts up a crappy preformance after his best games. And webber is a better offensive player than odom. Odom isn't the only reason why kobe's scoring 35 ppg, he may have a big impact but have you thought maybe he's entering his peak?Shaq was a major reason why Lakers won but it's not like kobe was a role player and did nothing. He hit the big shots when needed, lead his team to victories when shaq was sitting on the bench. And the sixers of 2000-2001 are way underrated. You have the mvp in AI, A shot blocker in Rattlif and Mutombo [he came later on]. You also have the coach of the year who forced AI to play defense. Then you have soild role players alike.Why hasn't AI been able to reach pass those heights ever seen? Explain, i want to show everyone you're double standards that is imprinted in you're mind.And nitro, which nba are you watching? The reason why the sixers are losing is because of their inabilty to play defense. Their offensive scheme is fine. AI is a weak defender, the only time he actually plays good d in crunch time and everyone does that.
Don't get me wrong I love AI but come on this is Lebron. AI has the best cross over in the league and is able to get by folks like nothing. He has a smooth jumper and he is a tough banger on the inside but this goes to Kobe. Kobe shoots at a higher percentage even though he is forced to take outside shots and take alot of shots every game because without him shooting his team would generate nothing offensively. Kobe can hit the long ball, AI can't. Kobe is a better 1 on 1 defender. AI usually just goes for the ball not the man. He gets a lot of steals but that DOES NOT mean that he is a great 1 on 1 defender which he is not. Kobe of course is the better rebounder. AI led his team to the finals a while ago but Kobe has 3 rings and his Lakers who are much less talented then the sixers have a better record. That is why i'm taking Kobe. They are pretty much tied scoring wise though. This is tough but i'm going with Kobes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 23 2006, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lol, Lamar Odom isn't realiable on offense. I'm sorry but he isn't, in the last 3 games he's played okay but he usually puts up a crappy preformance after his best games. And webber is a better offensive player than odom. Odom isn't the only reason why kobe's scoring 35 ppg, he may have a big impact but have you thought maybe he's entering his peak?Shaq was a major reason why Lakers won but it's not like kobe was a role player and did nothing. He hit the big shots when needed, lead his team to victories when shaq was sitting on the bench. And the sixers of 2000-2001 are way underrated. You have the mvp in AI, A shot blocker in Rattlif and Mutombo [he came later on]. You also have the coach of the year who forced AI to play defense. Then you have soild role players alike.Why hasn't AI been able to reach pass those heights ever seen? Explain, i want to show everyone you're double standards that is imprinted in you're mind.And nitro, which nba are you watching? The reason why the sixers are losing is because of their inabilty to play defense. Their offensive scheme is fine. AI is a weak defender, the only time he actually plays good d in crunch time and everyone does that.</div>Lamar is just as good offensively as Webber. Webber is a jumpshooter, period. Lamar can take it to the basket and has the ability to score over 20PPG.Yes, Kobe is entering his prime, but with lamar setting him up and create huge matchup problems, it really allows Kobe to operate. It also takes the pressure of creating shots for other players off Kobe's back.Again, never said Kobe wasn't a major contributor. But Shaq was the floor general, the best player on the lakers, and Kobe was far from an emotional or team leader. AI all of his career has been floor general and a leader and has led his team to overachieving success. While Kobe may be able to do some of the things AI has one of these days, so far he hasn't.Sixers were far from a great team that year they went to the Finals. They were definately good, but you can't tell me they didn't overachieve and AI didn't put them on his shoulders. And LB never got AI to play true D, just better team defense (which can be attributed to Rattlif and Mutombo).Explain what you mean by reach past those heights never seen. I do not get the question. It isn't a matter of babying one player or the other, AI is just more proven as a leader to me than Kobe is, and that is a huge attribute (that is the same reason why i say Kobe and Mac are better than Bron).I never said Sixers are losing because of offense. What i did say is that AI should be put into the role of designated scorer, and someone else run the offense. Lamar is doing that for LA and Kobe has benefited greatly. AI would benefit too.
Overachieve with what? The west was so weak back then, everyone knew the finals was decided in the WCF. And when i said reach those heighs is why hasn't AI being able to lead his team to those heighs? Like 2nd round and beyond. If he's such a great player he would've managed to lead his team somewhere. This season his team has more talent but yet his team sucks. Why? Because there's no larry brown, not team defense and ai is part of the problem.Kobe on the otherhand is a proven winner, doesn't matter if he did it with shaq or not. It's ridicolous to put an astirex near a players championships because he played with another great player. That's like saying the Big O was nothing because he didn't win without kareem. He hit the big shots and lead his team to victory on numerous occasions, absolutely destroying the spurs and then taking a backseat to shaq.
[quote name='Nitro1118' post='5192' date='Feb 21 2006, 05:11 PM']1) Shaq made Wade much better (and gave him more confidence), and he led his team to the playoffs, all the way to the 7th game of the ECF. That is much more impressive than not making playoffs and being 10th. Also, lakers wouldn't have made the playoffs even if Rudy T was healthy and Kobe was healthy all season. Rockets weren't in playoff chase when LA declined, and then they made 5th seed. Same with Grizzlies and Denver. And again, even if they got 8th seed, they wouldn't have gone anywhere.[/quote]He made Wade better? How? Wade was great in his first year, and when he made the transition from second option to first scoring option, his stats improved. The Heat went from a second-round team...to an ECF team. One round difference...and still no banner.The Lakers wouldn't have made the playoffs? How do you know? At the pace they were going, they would've...and Rudy leaving wasn't the dagger, the injuries to Kobe and Odom were. You definitely won't make the post season with your two best players hurt...one at the start of the second half, and one for the rest of the season.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='5192' date='Feb 21 2006, 05:11 PM']2) Kobe staying in LA is called selfishness. Shaq went to a better team to win a 'chip. Period. And when Shaq was young and changed teams, he went to a 50 win Lakers team. Kobe stayed in LA, maxed out his contract, all for himself. Kobe will never win a ring in LA unless a huge superstar like Shaq comes in, so I have no idea why you are complaining about people earning their rings.[/quote]You aren't a Lakers fan, so you wouldn't know how much it meant to us that Kobe stayed. You think it's selfish, and we feel differently.The fact is...when you mouth off about being the most dominant player ever...yet you have to go find yourself a star guard to play alongside to be successful, then you aren't the MDE. Where it's true that Kobe has no rings without Shaq, it's the same for O'Neal without Kobe...and the funny thing is, Shaq is declining...and Kobe has the second half of his career waiting for him.For the record, unless any player in this league has a star teammate, they aren't winning jack...and that includes the great Michael Jordan...so I don't know why you brought that up. The ones that stay loyal to their franchises and for their fans...that means more than a ring, that's called dedication...and it's something guys like Carter, Francis and even McGrady have problems with.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='5192' date='Feb 21 2006, 05:11 PM']3) AI has proven to lead average teams to the playoffs and Finals. Kobe still hasn't shown anything. His team is only .500 and with the Jazz, Rockets, and Warriors biting their <Censored>, they probably won't even make the playoffs this year. What if MJ was in today's NBA? What ifBird had hops? Like you said before, what if's don't matter. AI still did all of that. Kobe has lots to prove in terms of leadership and ability to carry a team to somewhere.[/quote]You can make the playoffs in the East being under .500 these days. If you want to say he had nobody during his Finals appearance, you may want to watch Dikembe Mutombo more often, in his early years when he was showing off with DPOY awards. A Mutombo-led Nuggets squad beat the top-seeded Sonics in the first round of the playoffs, and he didn't decline that much after just two or three years in the NBA. A man dropping 10/14 and nearly 3 blocks a game and the best defense in the NBA that season...he's more than just a teammate."What if" doesn't count...so why should "probably won't?"[quote name='Nitro1118' post='5192' date='Feb 21 2006, 05:11 PM']4) Webber is not the same player as he was when he is a King. He is barely a factor anymore with Philly. Yes he has the occasional great game, but he is not a consistent legit 2nd option. Ever since the heyday of Kings, he has had to use a decent jumpshot and passing skills to get the job done. Same with lamar to a degree, but unlike Lamar, Webber is not the playmaker for Sixers, so he doesn't have much use and isn't a viable scorer, so he isn't a great 2nd option. I feel AI should be the designated scorer like Kobe, but Maurice Cheeks wants him as playmaker and Webber just as a 2nd option at scorer. Doesn't work.[/quote]No, it doesn't work that Iverson ignores Webber in the post. He asks him to drop off and lure his defender out of the paint, so he (AI) can drive the lane. That takes Webber out of his game. Before he was traded to the Sixers, that same season, he had dropped two straight triple-doubles, and wasn't having any problems whatsoever. When he goes to play alongside Iverson, however, he's taken out of his game completely, and it shows when you watch the Sixers. If you're trying to convince me that Iverson isn't the designated scorer for the Sixers, then why is he dropping 32-33 a game? Webber is capable of scoring 22-25 a game...hell, he's averaging 20/10 right now in an offense where he gets less touches than Odom (who initiates the offense), so again...I don't understand your point.
[quote name='Real Deal' post='6533' date='Feb 24 2006, 10:03 AM']He made Wade better? How? Wade was great in his first year, and when he made the transition from second option to first scoring option, his stats improved. The Heat went from a second-round team...to an ECF team. One round difference...and still no banner.The Lakers wouldn't have made the playoffs? How do you know? At the pace they were going, they would've...and Rudy leaving wasn't the dagger, the injuries to Kobe and Odom were. You definitely won't make the post season with your two best players hurt...one at the start of the second half, and one for the rest of the season.[/quote]He made Wade better, no doubt. Gave him confidence mostly. That may not sound like much and may sound like BS, but it is true for every star player. Wade went from 2nd option to 2nd option, the only difference is he became more of a PG. Lakers wouldn't have at the rate they were going. .500 in the west last year wouldn't have made it. I do know it meant a lot to you, but that means sh*t. Kobe went back to LA for more money and to prove he can be the best he can be individually. But, he didn't do it to win a championship. He could have taken a paycut to sign FA's like KG did, or could have went to a better situation (like in Clipper land). Shaq was smart. Of course he could score 30PG and get 15RPG on a crap team, but he went to a fantastic situation to get a title, just like he did when he went to LA. Kobe hasn't even amde the playoffs without Shaq. Shaq went to the ECF last year and brought arguably the best team in the NBA to 7 games (and if it wasn't fo Wade's injury, it would have been a trip to the Finals). Shaq went to the Finals with orlando, and countless playoff series. Shaq may be declining, but he still has a much better chance of winning in Miami than Kobe does in LA. So all of those pretty stats Kobe has don't mean much. He seems to be going in the exact opposite direction Jordan did (Jordan was scoring like Kobe in first part of career, became more team oriented and more of a glorified role player when he won championships and stepped up D, Kobe is exact opposite). Again, it is cute that all the Lakers fans love Kobe for him staying in LA, but his career is declining IMO. Until he gets into a winning situation, I really can't call great seasons like these a success. And even T-Mac went to a much better situation in Houston, and same with VC. Francis....he's not a superstar, or even All Star, he is not worthy of bringing up. I never said he had nobody, but he certainly had no superstars. Mutombo was very nice, as was Ratlif, but AI carried that team offensively, made all the great plays, and he consistently does things Kobe has yet to do....make playoffs and win. I don't care if East is watered down. NBA was watered down in 90's when Jordan was being called GOAT, taking your team to the Finals with no other true superstars or anyone who can carry much of a load is extremely impressive. And if you think Mutombo and Ratlif were so great, why did Shaq rape them in the Finals, especially if you don't consider him the most dominant ever? Mutombo in 2000 wasn't the player he was in the mid-90's. If you are talking about lakers making playoffs, ok I will rephrase....they will NOT make playoffs. I will put all my money in the world on that. Rockets or Kigns will take that last spot. And again, Iverson every year gets his team to playoffs, sometimes even 2nd round, Kobe has a lot to prove to me in that area. Whether he doesn't to you is your business, but to me he does. Kings before this year were one of the most hugh-octane bunches that revolved around big men (Miller and Webber) to catch it in high post and make the pretty passes. Sixers offense is all based around iverson creating the plays. Webber still gets the same shots off pick and rolls. Webber is not a post player, he is a midrange jump shooter. Period. Scoring most points on team doesn't make you designated scorer. Iverson is the playmaker for Sixers, and has more jobs than most players do offensively. Kobe is not the main playmaker for Lakers, Odom is. Webber is not Odom, he does not take that pressure away from iverson. Of course he gets less touches than Odom, Odom creates the offense. Webber doesn't have that ability, so it leaves Iverson handling the ball all the time and having to create everything. Webber isn't reliable or consistent enough to be a 2nd option. Odom isn't a reliable 2nd scoring option (although is capable of 20PPG) but he is capable of being a PG for LA, and gives Kobe more isolation 1 on 1 and takes the pressure off him to create for others. Just look at his TO numbers from last year to this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wade3 @ Feb 17 2006, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is a betetr player but AI has better ball handling skills.</div>So?
I'm ending this already, because of this:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>NBA was watered down in 90's when Jordan was being called GOAT, taking your team to the Finals with no other true superstars or anyone who can carry much of a load is extremely impressive.</div>Sorry, Jordan had Pippen, who was perhaps the greatest defender of the 90's. Pippen actually went alone to put the Bulls in the playoffs the year after Jordan's retirement, where Chicago won 55 games and lost in the ECF's.You know...Jordan went to play for the battered Wizards...isn't that being selfish? I mean, come on...he knew they weren't contending.Your logic is flawed. If a player goes (or stays) on a team that's not contending, that makes him selfish? Hell no, it makes him dedicated. You're making up an excuse to back McGrady for giving up on the Orlando Magic, that's all.Why doesn't McGrady redo his contract? He's making $15 million or so. Houston is pathetic, doesn't matter why because you avoided that concerning the Lakers of last season. Is he selfish? I bet so.And again, Garnett's paycut was useless. Bird rights allowed Minny to re-sign him no matter what, and they were already going to be over the cap, so screw the paycut. All they had was the MLE...a drop from $20 million to $18 million is chump change and does nothing for your overall payroll.Face it man, you're hating on the absolute best player in the game. For the last four games, after you criticized him for not sharing the ball like LeBron James, he has racked up 8-10 assists a night. Now you bring up Shaq making the playoffs every year, when for every year he did, he had an All-Star guard playing next to him. Blame management for making it more difficult for Kobe Bryant, by picking up Kwame Brown and Smush. You place Kobe on the Heat roster with Zo, Walker, Posey, Williams, Payton, and Udonis...and that squad gets into the ECF's.Then you bring Jordan into the argument, saying there were no other stars, which is hilarious.Consider the level of difficulty...or don't consider anything at all, and then you can explain to me why McGrady and the Rockets are underachieving, without blaming injuries.
Lol, so Kobe staying with LA is him being selfish?And if he left people would say he just wants the rings and can't lead a team on his own?So AI staying with the sixers is selfish seeing as how that team was never going to win anything?Is this how Tmac fans try to explain his situation in Orlando? Ever heard of team loyalty?Absolute Garbage.Edit: Explain to me why Shaq didn't win anything until kobe matured? Explain to me What Shaq has done without Phil? And wade's injury is overrated. He owned detroit in the 3rd and in the 4th he disappeared? Did the injury resurface in the 4th? Come on.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'd trade Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown for Kyle Kover and Andre. This would give Kobe teamates that can score so he can relax. Also it would give Brian Cook a chance to prove himself more as a starting Power Forward and they can move Chris Mim down to PF as well. It would work out well for both sides. AI and Lamor Odom could work pretty well together imo. As for Kwame once he's off LA I don't care what they do with him.</div> Considering Korver and Iguodala are just average scorers....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BCB @ Feb 25 2006, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Considering Korver and Iguodala are just average scorers....</div>You have no idea how much we need a defender like Iggy, and a guy who can spread the floor (shooter) like Korver. That would be great for the triangle.Then again, trading our best rebounder and another big wouldn't do us any good.
I don't think Iguodala is that great a defender to be honest. Kyle Korver is a great shooter but he gives up whatever he scored on the other end.
[quote name='Real Deal' post='7086' date='Feb 25 2006, 04:18 AM']I'm ending this already, because of this:Sorry, Jordan had Pippen, who was perhaps the greatest defender of the 90's. Pippen actually went alone to put the Bulls in the playoffs the year after Jordan's retirement, where Chicago won 55 games and lost in the ECF's.You know...Jordan went to play for the battered Wizards...isn't that being selfish? I mean, come on...he knew they weren't contending.[/quote]I never talked about Jordan's title runs or anything like that. I was just talking about how he is considered the GOAT when he was in a watered down NBA. All of the great things he did, individually or with the Bulls, is generally not held agaisnt him because it occured during the 90's.Jordan went to Wizards because he wa spart owner and thought he could help them out. Makes him dedicated my <Censored>. Houston is pathetic only because of injuries. By statistics, if Yao and Tracy were healthy, and Houston had the same winning % they do with Yao and Tracy, they would have 4th best record in NBA. Lakers when Odom and Kobe were healthy last year were only slightly better than a .500 team, and if they kept going at that rate, they would have finished in 9th seed. Big difference. And even with all those injuries this year, Houston will make the playoffs (I will put all my virtual money on that). 2 million a year can definately help in acquiring a 5 million dollar a year or so player. He still took the paycut for his team, Kobe didn't. LeBron has done it the whole season, if Kobe can get over 5APG this year, I will not say anything about him not sharing the ball (which was not even a knock on him I made, I said he wasn't the main playmaker for Lakers and AI is for Sixers). Shaq decided to go to a much better place in Miami. I don't care if he has always had an all star guard by his side, or that Duncan has always had someone by his side, or Garnett has never had someone by his side with the exception fo one year. Shaq still has proven a lot more in carrying a team to playoffs and being the main leader. He has always been the #1 man on each team he has played at, despite having Penny, Kobe and Wade on his teams. He has been big all his life, Kobe took a step in the wrong direction last year with all that went on last year. This year he has taken a huge step foward into really proving himself to me, but until he makes playoffs, I still put AI over him.Oh, and except for AI, I feel he is the 2nd best SG in the game. Actually, i feel they are quite tied, but if you look at their careers, Kobe still has to prove that he can carry a team to the playoffs like AI does pretty much every year. Excuses aside for either arguement, to me, he just needs to do that. Once he can do that, I will say with 100% confidence Kobe is better. I never said that. Find a quote to back that up, I dare you. What I did say is that in the 90's when Jordan was tearing up the league, racking up all those amazing individual and team numbers, it was in a watered down NBA. While the East has been watered down the past 5-6 years, AI still brought many Sixers teams who weren't good at all to playoffs, sometimes even 2nd round, and one to the Finals. So while the East was watered down, it is still an amazing accomplishment IMO. If Kobe did the same with lakers, it would be even more impressive as West is stronger than East, but he hasn't even brought them to playoffs yet, so AI is much more proven in that area. Rockets have had the injury bug much worse than lakers last year. T-Mac, Yao, Rafer, Stro, DA, Jon Barry, among others have been injured for over 10 games this year. Lakers still had Caron healthy last year, and all of the other role players. Most of the time this year T-Mac and Yao were injured at same time, last year Odom and Kobe were down at different times, so one or the other was always playing. This year has just been terrible for Rockets.The stats are just incredible for Rockets. 1-16 when McGrady doesn't finish games, and they would have the 4th best record in NBA if Mac and Yao played all of our games (maybe even better if T-mac was more healthy). When Kobe and Odom were together last year, they were teetering with a playoff spot, and by end of seaosn probably wouldn't have made it with all the compeition in the West last year. This year the West is considerably weaker, so to me, if Kobe can get his team to the playoffs, much of my knock on him will be forgotten. Melo-AI's only way to get out of Philly is to be traded. When he becomes a free agent, I honestly believe he will switch teams. I am not sure when he signed his last contract, but before last year, the Sixers were actually a pretty good team with upside, even getting to 2nd round 2 years back. Kobe knew damn well Lakers were a fairly bad team when he resigned. He didn't resign for loyalty, he signed so he can show he can carry a team. So of course you Lakers fans will back him upT-Mac went out of orlando because the team was garbage, and his feaud with the owner. He liked Orlando and wanted to stay there, but he said it himself, the team couldn't build around him correctly. The feud with the owner was the last straw.Shaq has made playoffs every year, and with the Heat he got to ECF last year, game 7,a nd made Finals with orlando. I stand by if Wade was healthy they would have won. It was a rib injury, and if you ever had bruised ribs, you know how hard it is to run, and sometimes even breathe. So of course he wasn't as crisp in 4th. He did the wrong thing, he should have gotten ball to Shaq, but nontheless, they still got to ECF. Kobe hasn't even gotten to playoffs. And even though this is a whole 'nother arguement, if people keep knocking T-Mac for never getting past first round, i can do same for Kobe and not making playoffs without Shaq. It is all a matter of perception, but when doing this kind of arguement, carrying a team is very important IMO. I know many will disagree, but it is ture. And the 2 people arguing with me are Lakers/Kobe fans. If this was in 02-03 when T-Mac was having a seaosn just as good as Kobe's (and in which they made playoffs and brought #1 seed to 7 games), people were knocing him for never getting past 1st round, and saying people like Pierce were better than him! Yet when Kobe hasn't even made playoffs yet without Shaq, people call him by far the best player in the NBA. Same knock can be put on Bron, until he proves he can perform in clutch and carry a team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>2 million a year can definately help in acquiring a 5 million dollar a year or so player. He still took the paycut for his team, Kobe didn't.</div>No it can't, not when you're over the cap. Read up on the CBA. When you're over the cap (which was at $45 million at the time), all you have is the MLE and possibly the LLE. You can't draw any money out of your cap...period...and every team has the options above. The paycut made no difference; Minny fans blew it up like it did.Why are you blaming injuries for the Rockets' failures when you don't do the same with last season's Lakers? You keep saying "IF" yourself...but you attacked me for saying it? You're a hypocrite. The fact remains that the Rockets are terrible because of injuries, and so were the Lakers. The Rockets are 5x better than Los Angeles, mainly because of the teammates surrounding T-Mac. Stop comparing T-Mac's "success" as an individual player, because when you remove Kobe from the Lakeshow, there would be no worse team...not even the Bobcats. 99% of the Lakers fans would agree...the ones who watch Odom miss 5 consecutive layups, the ones that see Smush go 0-7 from downtown, and those that watch Kwame fumble 4 straight passes.What Kobe has done is unthinkable, and guys such as Steven A and even Tim Legler are starting to admit it. McGrady's 2003 Magic were terrible, and Kobe's Lakers are just as bad...but Kobe isn't losing 60+ games this year.
Longest post on this board and you prove what?I didn't see Tracy mcgrady get injured for 16 games, i didn't see their next player get injured for 18 games. I didn't see in Orlando there coach resign then another coach appointed who said he didn't want to be there.But yeh, let's blame kobe on this. So you're willing to say it was Tmac's fault in 2004 that his team 21-61? You do know kobe was told to sit out the rest of the season because the season was already dead? Isn't racy mcgrady the same guy who decided not to play the last couple games of the season? Nah but kobe's selfish for wanting to win.Secondly that wade injury was bs because1 He was cold for the first half2 He caught fire in the 3rd3 He got cold in the 4th missing all of his shots5 Shaq said someone didn't give him the ball, who is that person?So in that order i believe wade went cold, not because of his injury. edit: Yeah, kobe's already won 3 rings. He doesn't have to go to good teams to win. He has something to prove, is that shameful? He's not Like Ai or KG who are ringless and are probably going to leave those pitiful organisation soon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Feb 25 2006, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No it can't, not when you're over the cap. Read up on the CBA. When you're over the cap (which was at $45 million at the time), all you have is the MLE and possibly the LLE. You can't draw any money out of your cap...period...and every team has the options above. The paycut made no difference; Minny fans blew it up like it did.Why are you blaming injuries for the Rockets' failures when you don't do the same with last season's Lakers? You keep saying "IF" yourself...but you attacked me for saying it? You're a hypocrite. The fact remains that the Rockets are terrible because of injuries, and so were the Lakers. The Rockets are 5x better than Los Angeles, mainly because of the teammates surrounding T-Mac. Stop comparing T-Mac's "success" as an individual player, because when you remove Kobe from the Lakeshow, there would be no worse team...not even the Bobcats. 99% of the Lakers fans would agree...the ones who watch Odom miss 5 consecutive layups, the ones that see Smush go 0-7 from downtown, and those that watch Kwame fumble 4 straight passes.What Kobe has done is unthinkable, and guys such as Steven A and even Tim Legler are starting to admit it. McGrady's 2003 Magic were terrible, and Kobe's Lakers are just as bad...but Kobe isn't losing 60+ games this year.</div>Rockets will make playoffs, Lakers weren't even close last year. Period. And again, i don't know why you are taking 2 totally different situations and comparing them. Rockets this year have had to deal with many different things that lakers dealt with last year, and vice versa.I never compared T-Mac's success or anything. I was stating that Rockets are just as dependant on him as Lakers are on Kobe. Only reason Rockets won last night without Mac was because Yao had a very, very rare 20/20 game (and they only won by 3 points). And if you were a Rockets fans, you would know without T-Mac, all you'd have is Yao only taking 15FGA per game and getting dunked on by everyone, rafer turning the ball over every other possesion, Stro missing another easy 5ft jump shot, Juwan Howard taking 25FGA per game, then somewhere along the way Ryan Bowen coughing up an airball. And then you have JVG not letting anyone play their game or getting easy transition baskets. Don't tell me Lakers would be much worse than Rockets without Mac, as Rockets are 1-16 without him.Lakers are better than Mac's 2003-2004 Magic. They have better coach, much better 2nd option (Magic's 2nd option back then was who, Drew Gooden?), and lastly Mac had to be main playmaker, Kobe gets that lifted off his shoulders. And the playmakers are better on the Lakers. When Kobe was playmaker on an average team last year, he had his worst season ever. I don't know why you are bringing in the Magic of that year, as again, different situations. Melo:McGrady was hurt for a portion of the season, even before sitting out the rest of the season. And Doc was fired about 15 games into the season for another coach who was....crap. At least the temporary coach for LA knew his stuff and had won before with Phil.Of course T-Mac was part to blame for Magic of 2003-2004, but his team was pure crap (as in worse than Lakers of this season, Bobcats, Raptors, and Hawks), owner hated his game, and injuries. And again, if Kobe wanted to win, he would have signed to a better team. I call it he wanted to prove something in LA even if that meant losing, you call it dedication and team loyalty. But he didn't sign with LA primarily to win. You may consider it a good thing he signed to LA for whatever reason you may believe, but I feel he could have went to a better situation and still prove himself as the best player in the world. AI and KG both have proven they can carry teams, Kobe has to prove that. Thing is, he could have done that and been much more successful with a different team.If you have played with an injury before, you know it is much harder to play and easier to miss shots. I can't even imagine playing with bruised ribs. Again, Wade was to blame for not getting ball to Shaq, but his injury played a huge part in their loss. OK guys, I'm done with this arguement. Not much more to say. Basically, it all comes down to this FOR ME: Like Kobe being more proven than Bron in many areas, I feel AI is more proven in certain areas. Right now, they are about equal for me. If Kobe can ge this team to the playoffs and he wins the games and shows he can carry and lead his team to some success (doesn't mean winning a championship or even a playoff series), I will bow down and say Kobe is the best player in the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 25 2006, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK guys, I'm done with this arguement. Not much more to say. Basically, it all comes down to this FOR ME: Like Kobe being more proven than Bron in many areas, I feel AI is more proven in certain areas. Right now, they are about equal for me. If Kobe can ge this team to the playoffs and he wins the games and shows he can carry and lead his team to some success (doesn't mean winning a championship or even a playoff series), I will bow down and say Kobe is the best player in the game.</div>Agreed. Kobe has so many ifs/ands/buts, all of which can be cleared up by the conclusion of this year. If he continues to have these stats, and makes something of the Lakers, he is without question the best player in the NBA. If they faltar and lose playoff contention, then I can once again take strong case TMac is better than him when healthy, along with AI. By the end of this season, we should all ahve an answer.
