Ai doesnt have Kobe's height or Kobe's support on his team (Lmar Odom) although he does have Andre Iguadola that is more his go to guy than anything. Ai is past his prime though and now I would take Kobe who is still in his prime over him. Although Ai in his prime could rock the socks off of the Black Mamba
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ May 23 2006, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ai doesnt have Kobe's height or Kobe's support on his team (Lmar Odom) although he does have Andre Iguadola that is more his go to guy than anything. Ai is past his prime though and now I would take Kobe who is still in his prime over him. Although Ai in his prime could rock the socks off of the Black Mamba</div>Umm...AI's only 30 or 31, and arguably his best season was 04-05...AI in his prime (I guess):2004-2005 (43-39, 2nd in Atlantic)30.7 points a game (42%), 7.9 assists a game, 4 boards, 2.4 steals a gameAll-NBA first teamKobe this season:2005-2006 (45-37, 2nd in Pacific)35.4 points a game (45%), 4.5 assists a game, 5.3 boards a game, 1.8 steals a game7th highest average in PPG in league historyAll-NBA first teamAll-NBA Defense first teamThe numbers are relatively close, but once you factor in the difficulty of each conference. Kobe's first real year in his prime already beats AI in his so-called prime.This is kind of a dumb argument anyway. Anyone who has ever watched the two can tell Kobe is better. Or should be able to tell at least...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crazyrocketfan05 @ May 24 2006, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>AI his a better leader and has more heart he hasnt had the talent that kobes had in the pass</div>Didn't AI show up late to a game at the end of the season because he didn't think he was gonna play? And Practice? We talkin' 'bout practice, man. Real leadership...
AI isn't a better leader. He has more heart, but Kobe has more brains and competetiveness. What good is heart without a killer instinct like Kobe's or MJ's? Kobe is a better shooter, scorer, rebounder, etc. A.I. is just better at steals like Eliiite said. Kobe is much better defensively than Allen Iverson. Iverson wouldn't have made it to the Finals in 01 if it wasnt for the midseason trade for Dikembo Mutombo, AND he wouldnt have made it there without Aaron Mckie or Eric Snow. Kobe has done a better job as REAL leader than AI has for the past 1 and half year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AirBlaze @ May 27 2006, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>AI isn't a better leader. He has more heart, but Kobe has more brains and competetiveness. What good is heart without a killer instinct like Kobe's or MJ's? Kobe is a better shooter, scorer, rebounder, etc. A.I. is just better at steals like Eliiite said. Kobe is much better defensively than Allen Iverson. Iverson wouldn't have made it to the Finals in 01 if it wasnt for the midseason trade for Dikembo Mutombo, AND he wouldnt have made it there without Aaron Mckie or Eric Snow. Kobe has done a better job as REAL leader than AI has for the past 1 and half year.</div>Of course they wouldn't have made it to the Finals in 2001 if they didn't trade for Mutombo... because Theo Ratliff was out for almost the rest of the year with a broken hand... if he was healthy, he would have been just as good for Philly as Mutombo.AI and Kobe are equal in the leadership department in my eyes. AI doesn't always set a good example, but he has matured a lot over the past few years, and is a much, much better leader than he gets credit for. He also has a killer instinct, but this year the "brilliant" Mo Cheeks decided for some odd reason that Webber and Salmons should be our closers rather than Iverson. Anyway, Kobe does have a better overall game... somebody would have to be blind not to see that.
Kobe is better. He is by far the better player. Both of them are good defender, Kobe is a better scorer, Iveron a better passer. But Kobe has the edge because he just has that fire to put his team on his back and getting the win.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pistonz4life @ May 27 2006, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is better. He is by far the better player. Both of them are good defender, Kobe is a better scorer, Iveron a better passer. But Kobe has the edge because he just has that fire to put his team on his back and getting the win.</div>Iverson is actually a poor defender.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Diesel @ May 27 2006, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Better Career Thus far: Allen IversonBetter Right now: Kobe Bryant</div>I just don't see that at all.Allen Iverson<u>Career Numbers</u>28.0 PPG4.0 RPG6.1 APG2.3 SPG3.7 TOPG.421 FG%.310 3P%<u>Honors</u>Rookie of the Year (97)Most Valuable Player (01)All-NBA 1st Team (3 times: 99, 01, 05)All-NBA 2nd Team (3 times: 00, 02, 03)All-NBA 3rd Team (06)<u>Team Achievements</u>Eastern Conference Title (01)Kobe Bryant<u>Career Numbers</u>23.9 PPG5.1 RPG4.5 APG1.5 SPG2.9 TOPG.451 FG%.336 3P%<u>Honors</u>All-NBA 1st Team (4 times: 02, 03, 04, 06)All-NBA 2nd Team (2 times: 00, 01)All-NBA 3rd Team (05)All-NBA Defense 1st Team (4 times: 00, 03, 04, 06)All-NBA Defense 2nd Team (2 times: 01, 02)<u>Team Achievements</u>Western Conference Title (4 times: 00, 01, 02, 04)NBA Title (3 times: 00, 01, 02)
I agree with FO. Kobe also has had the better career. How many all-defensive teams did Iverson get on?
You obviously have to go with Kobe. AI for some reason lately is not doing anything with his team and doesn't make his teammates better. Look at Kobe this year, with a worse supporting cast he got his team to the playoffs and did well, AI just doesn't do it for me anymore and has been the most overrated defender in the NBA for years. Other than stealing the ball he doesn't do much on defense. He always shoots a poor percenatage although I give him credit for going inside instead of jacking up three pointers. I obviously love how tough the guy is but you have to figure his size into it, for a 6'0" 165 pound guy he is amazing but he just doesn't isn't as good as Kobe and we all know that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BCB @ May 27 2006, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You obviously have to go with EDIT KOBE EDIT. AI for some reason lately is not doing anything with his team and doesn't make his teammates better. Look at Kobe this year, with a worse supporting cast he got his team to the playoffs and did well, AI just doesn't do it for me anymore and has been the most overrated defender in the NBA for years. Other than stealing the ball he doesn't do much on defense. He always shoots a poor percenatage although I give him credit for going inside instead of jacking up three pointers. I obviously love how tough the guy is but you have to figure his size into it, for a 6'0" 165 pound guy he is amazing but he just doesn't isn't as good as Kobe and we all know that.</div>
Kobe is the best player in basketball. AI is probably not top 5 right now. Kobe is now the better scorer. AI shoots a crappy percentage because he puts up a lot of stupid shots, so does Kobe, but Kobe can make those things. Kobe is the better defender. The spg is really misleading because AI goes for the ball, not the man. He is a crappy man to man defender. Kobe is the better rebounder, more clutch and has the 3 rings. AI doesnt have any. And AI didnt make the playoffs this season even though he had the better team.
Fouled Out, How many teams has Kobe led to the Finals? NoneWithout Shaq, Kobe will not win a ring. Hell I odn't see him getting to the Finals. The best player Iverson has had on his team was probably Dikembe Mutombo and he only had him for one and a half years. Kobe had Shaq for 8 years. Shaq is a top 10 player of all time.(Top 3 IMO but I don't wanna debate on that) When the Lakers won the championships Shaq was the one getting the Finals MVP's, not Kobe. Kobe has yet to lead a team past the first round. Until Kobe Bryant carries a franchise to the Finals the way AI did in 01, there is no way Kobe is going ahead of AI in my books. Not to mention AI has an MVP as well. In 96-97 we all saw who was the best rookie.
[quote name='Diesel' post='76754' date='May 27 2006, 01:43 PM']Fouled Out, How many teams has Kobe led to the Finals? None[/quote]How many titles does Shaq have without Kobe? Oh but I guess it doesn't work that way because it doesn't benefit your argument. Kobe was still All-NBA and All-NBA Defense in those title runs, Kobe had as much to do with those titles as Shaq did. Congratulations for having an opinion, but here's a little secret for you. Shaq just had the worst year of his career which will be over with in the next year or two. Kobe just had the best year of his career which will be over with in a decade. How on earth can you predict that? Deke was rather good on the Sixers, and that team actually had more talent than you think. But it's not like there were any world beaters coming out of the East that year. And startedfor 5 and a half with three rings and four finals appearances. Good for Shaq, but do you really think that Shaq's rep didn't help him get those MVPs? He won the NBA MVP in 2000, there was no way that they weren't giving him the Finals MVP. Considering that the Laker as a team dominated in the 2001 and 2002 Finals, why not just give it to the same guy? Kobe played with plantar fasciitis with ten new players, and two different coaches last year. This year, he carried the Lakers team to be a whole helluva lot better than people expected. Go ahead, hold that against him, it only makes you look like a fool. No. You'll still hold it against Kobe because you're the typical Shaq fanboy. What does AI do that's better than Kobe on the basketball floor? He doesn't score as well, he doesn't defend as well, he barely distributes better, he doesn't board as well. AND HE'S PLAYING IN THE EASIER CONFERENCE! Come on, this shouldn't even be a debate. Of course AI was the better rookie, he won Rookie of the Year. Kobe didn't play as much. But in 05-06 we all see who is the best basketball player in the league.
KB is only advanced in 1 category whereas AI can score + playmake whenever his teammates decide to "play". Same with KB, but I think a player is obviously made better by his teammates. KB hasn't had this luxury for a while and it has given him a big disadvantage, IMO.
