<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo_061 @ Jun 17 2006, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Great post but after watching this season, can you honestly not pick kobe?</div>I really don't know. If I picked who I want on my team now it be Kobe. Because Kobe is younger, and taller. But I don't know not taking anything away from Kobe, but he did have Shaq on his team all those years. But yea last season was amazing for Kobe. I had tickets to the Sixers when they played the Lakers this past season, and I could not make it I was looking forward to making the Sixers Vs Lakers game here in Philly for 4 year in a row now since they only come here once. Eh I guess as much as I like AI I would pick Kobe right now. But not being biast at all when I say this, but over all so far AI had a better carrer when we don't include the titles. But Kobe will deff have a better carrer when it said, and done with.
Kobe and shaq v.s A.I and Mutumbo that seems pretty unfairhow about Kobe and Shaq v.s A.I and shaq, if you had that who do you think wouldve woni say A.I because of the assits factor and the steals, because he could go for the steal alot, and let shaq play D lol
^Why? You can say AI had an equal season to Kobe's last year, 33PPG to go with 7.5APG and 2SPG is damn good.And not to mention AI led his team to the Finals. Notice I said HIS team. Shaq led his team to beat AI's team, not Kobe. In some aspects, Kobe still needs to do that to match AI.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 9 2006, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Why? You can say AI had an equal season to Kobe's last year, 33PPG to go with 7.5APG and 2SPG is damn good.</div>An equal season? Are you serious? Look past the numbers. Kobe's Lakers not only had a winning record in a much tougher conference, not only reached the playoffs, not only took a Western Conference finalist to game seven, but they did it with less talent. And that's not even mentioning the whole shooting thing. Kobe can score from anywhere on the court. Are you going to leave Kobe open 20 feet away? Probably not. AI? Possibly. You have to have a body or two on Kobe the entire time, or he'll light you up. I don't think you can say the same about AI.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And not to mention AI led his team to the Finals. Notice I said HIS team. Shaq led his team to beat AI's team, not Kobe. In some aspects, Kobe still needs to do that to match AI.</div>What has AI done since? Kobe has three titles, contributed more than anyone cares to admit to those teams, and people still say that because the 76ers got lucky in a terrible conference he's better. How bout we do this. Throw Kobe on the 76ers, put AI on the Lakers. What Happens? Just play that out in your mind for a few minutes, and if you think the Lakers would still make the playoffs...I'd tend to think you'd need to be institutionalized.Kobe is considered by some to be the best player on the planet right now, AI is considered to be a really good player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fouled Out @ Jul 9 2006, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>An equal season? Are you serious? Look past the numbers. Kobe's Lakers not only had a winning record in a much tougher conference, not only reached the playoffs, not only took a Western Conference finalist to game seven, but they did it with less talent. And that's not even mentioning the whole shooting thing. Kobe can score from anywhere on the court. Are you going to leave Kobe open 20 feet away? Probably not. AI? Possibly. You have to have a body or two on Kobe the entire time, or he'll light you up. I don't think you can say the same about AI.</div>You're insane if you don't guard AI from 20ft out. You do realize AI has had a 60 point game before, more 50pt games than Kobe has had, and averages nearly 30PPG for career. I don't care what you say, AI can score with the best of them. What makes it more impressive is he is only about 6' tall.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>What has AI done since? Kobe has three titles, contributed more than anyone cares to admit to those teams, and people still say that because the 76ers got lucky in a terrible conference he's better. How bout we do this. Throw Kobe on the 76ers, put AI on the Lakers. What Happens? Just play that out in your mind for a few minutes, and if you think the Lakers would still make the playoffs...I'd tend to think you'd need to be institutionalized.Kobe is considered by some to be the best player on the planet right now, AI is considered to be a really good player.</div>Kobe was a role player, AI was a leader. I don't care if the conferance was weak, he still led a team to the Finals, a team that wasn't very talented (defensively they were very good, which meant AI had to pretty much single handedly carry the scoring load). I would say what AI did with that team was more impressive than what Steve Nash did the past 2 seasons, as Nash had a team built perfectly around him to exploit his skills perfectly and a coach who let him shine. AI had some defensive players around him with LB as a coach. Not exactly exploiting his skills.Don't give me that ridiculous arguement of what if you put him on this team and what if you put him on that team. What if Kobe was on those Orlando teams and what if T-Mac was on those Laker teams? You can play that game all day, but it isn't a sensible arguement. For example, no one could have guessed Nash would have a 60 win season with the same team that won around 30 with Marbury.I personally think Kobe is the best player in the league right now, but people make it seem like it's not even a question. AI has had one helluva career, and has done things Kobe hasn't. Same can be said for Kobe. Both are the best 2 pure scorers in the league. Both very clutch. Both have had some great success in their career. Both are tough as hell and work harder than anyone else to win. Unfortunately, AI has never had a player like Shaq, and Kobe probably won't get another Shaq in his life.
I love how people say Kobe is a much better scorer than AI... why's that? Because he led the league in scoring for ONE season? AI led the league FOUR times, and there are only four other players (maybe five) in League history that have done that.AI has been scoring at will for 10 seasons... Kobe has only been doing it for one. Yeah, you can say that if Kobe didn't have Shaq then he would have done the same thing offensively as Iverson, but then you'd also be admitting that the three rings Kobe has on Iverson are because of Shaq.AI might not have a better career than Kobe, but they are closer than a lot of people are making it out to be. Give Iverson six to eight more inches in height, and you'd probably have another Kobe on your hands. Iverson's poor shooting percentage has a lot more to do with his height than anything else.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Jul 9 2006, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love how people say Kobe is a much better scorer than AI... why's that? Because he led the league in scoring for ONE season? AI led the league FOUR times, and there are only four other players (maybe five) in League history that have done that.AI has been scoring at will for 10 seasons... Kobe has only been doing it for one. Yeah, you can say that if Kobe didn't have Shaq then he would have done the same thing offensively as Iverson, but then you'd also be admitting that the three rings Kobe has on Iverson are because of Shaq.AI might not have a better career than Kobe, but they are closer than a lot of people are making it out to be. Give Iverson six to eight more inches in height, and you'd probably have another Kobe on your hands. Iverson's poor shooting percentage has a lot more to do with his height than anything else.</div>People say Kobe is a much better scorer than AI because of his ability to score in so many ways. He can break down the defense well, his midrange game is unmatched, he can hit the 3 ball, he can hit fadeaways/turnarounds better than anyone in the league by far, there's not a single way of scoring that he's not very good at (besides maybe low post scoring, even though he's pretty good down there too).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Jul 9 2006, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That doesn't mean he is a better scorer... that just means he is a more versatile scorer.</div>Yeah, actually that's true. But a lot of the time, it's the same thing. Because the more versatile scorer is almost always the better one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Jul 9 2006, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, actually that's true. But a lot of the time, it's the same thing. Because the more versatile scorer is almost always the better one.</div>Not necessarily, and not in this case. Bryant is the more versatile scorer, but I'm staying with Iverson as the better scorer simply because he has been doing it for 10 years whereas Bryant has only done it for one thus far.One more thing, whoever said that Iverson leading the Sixers to the Finals in 2001 should be discredited because it was in a weak conference, then you can't say that Bryant's three rings hold a lot of weight over Iverson. Why? Because Shaq was the main reason for those three Laker championships... not Kobe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Jul 9 2006, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That doesn't mean he is a better scorer... that just means he is a more versatile scorer.</div>Like you, I feel AI is underrated and very under-appreciated, but considering Kobe has a better FG %, more versatile scorer, and can become hot fire when he is on a streak, I'd say Kobe is the better scorer. But AI, T-Mac and Kobe are all above everyone else in the league when it comes to scoring.
If kobe took 27 shots a game back in the day, he'd average 30ppg. And unlike other people, i can speculate on this because i'm positive he could so.
Really? Because It's not exactly rare to see NBA coaches do it nowadays. AI dosn't have near the consistent jumper that a lot of guards have. It happens with him. He used to be the better scorer, but not now. By the way, if there is a distance, how many more 50+ point games does AI have over Kobe. I was pretty sure Kobe became the active leader this past season. And speaking of this past season, Kobe had almost twice as many 40 point games as the guy in second place, a Mr. Iverson. A role player? How many role players score 29 a night on 46% shooting as the second option? Hell, Iverson only scored 31 a game that season, and it was one of the best shooting seasons of his career, at 42%. So you're going to let one year determine his worth for the whole year? The Sixers were a contender in the East for one year, in a ten year span. That year was one of the weaker East years too. I gotta see something more than that, man. If AI is such a better leader, where did he take the team in the next season? First round knockout. How is that ridiculous? Isn't that the ultimate measuring stick of the effectiveness of both players? If Kobe were on the Sixers, would they finish with a winning record? Considering what he did with the Lakers, that's probably a safe bet. Now if AI can't take the Sixers anywhere, you know he wouldn't get the Lakers anywhere. It's only ridiculous because it doesn't work for your argument. You could, and when T-Mac was in Orlando, he and Kobe were relatively even as players (at least in the regular season. Bad analogy. The last season that Marbury was were there, the Suns weren't that great, but the season before that, they nearly upset the Spurs in the playoffs. Nash wasn't the only acquisiton in the offseason either, and to add even more to that, Nash was built perfectly for D'Antoni. Everyody should have guessed it, I thought they were going to be good. I didn't expect them to be that good, but good nonetheless. Kobe has done a lot of things that AI hasn't. Here's the thing though. There are alwas going to be big scorers in the NBA. Always have been. AI falls into that group, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, Kobe is probably on his way to being one of the great guards in NBA history at this pace. That's why I don't even understand why this thread was even made.
Kobe lets end it there. he can do everything iverson does. much better in some categories. And dont say that height crap. Cause iversons small height is his advantage with the type of plays he likes to do. Next time u see a mouse try and catch it wit ur hands. Swayin off thoughts...sorry. But Kobe takes the cake in this one.Their teams record shows a portion too.
[quote name='Fouled Out' post='111521' date='Jul 10 2006, 08:24 AM']Really? Because It's not exactly rare to see NBA coaches do it nowadays. AI dosn't have near the consistent jumper that a lot of guards have. It happens with him.[/quote]They don't guard him as tightly as Kobe from that far out because AI is MUCH quicker than Kobe and has a crossover that will embaress just about anyone in the NBA. Same reason why Nash is rarely guarded tightly from that far out. AI's jumper is fine. They are about equal as scorers. I'd say Kobe has the edge, but it is close. And AI had more 30pt games and I believe 50pt games. 33ppg and 25ppg aren't too far apart. Kobe had the better season, but 2 seasons ago AI was better. It changes year from year, due to injuries, etc... For example, 2 years ago T-Mac was the ebst swingman in the league. Shaq was out quite a bit that season, and when he was around he was injured. KObe had a great year, but without Shaq having a great year, they only got to 2nd round. Until Kobe gets out of the 1st round (which AI has done more than once) I am not gonna say he is the better leader. What happenned when Lakers were up 3-1 this year? They lost the next 3. The last game Kobe was his usual old self and not shooting to make himself look good, just like he did vs. the Kings a few years ago. No, it doesn't work because they are 2 totally different teams. If Kobe wa son the Sixers, he'd have to be playmaker. He was playmaker in 2004-2005, and had his worst season of his career. Only when Odom took over that spot did he start playing well. AI could fill that void of pure scorer that Kobe did about as well as Kobe. As for the Sixers, Kobe isn't a PG, so shuffling would be happenning. Since Kobe can't be PG, he'd take even more shots away from CWebb, and there would be even more controversy. You can't. You have to consider if T-Mac could have cooperated with Shaq, could he have played such good D on AI in finals, could he have taken over those playoff games, etc... Could Kobe, that early in his career, taken over such an average team and pushed #1 seeded Pistons to 7 games like T-Mac did? There are too many intangibles. Before Quentin reached the Suns, he was a nothing player, just your average role player. Nash alone turned that team around by 30 games, and into the best team in NBA (well, record-wise anyway). Before Nash reached Phoenix, D'Antoni's offense wasn't as high-octane as it is now, and wasn't quite as free-roaming. NO one could have guessed Nash to make Amare a superstar, or make players like Joe Johnson and QRich so good they'd be getting HUGE deals from ATL and NY. No one could have guessed they'd be as good as they got. AI has averaged 8APG these past 2 seasons, and over 2SPG for his career. He has one of the highest PPG average for career in the history of the NBA. Last year, outside of Kobe's 35PPG, he had the highest PPG since the late 80's MJ. AI isn't just a big scorer, he is extremely special. Kobe still isn't where he needs to be. I feel he is #1 in NBA now, pound for pound, but he still has to prove a LOT (hell, Wade is RIGHT there with Kobe for the #1 title right now). He still has to prove that he can be a true and reliable leader. Against the Suns just showed he still has area to improve there. he still has to improve decision-making, and have the know-how of when to take the last shot and when to pass it (3 games in a row he took, and missed, GW shots over 2-3 defenders when players were wide open). He still has to prove, to me, that he isn't just a scorer. Last year he was just a scorer, period. His best season was 2002-2003, as he was also playmaker, a great defender and showed how good overall he was. This past year his defense has been on a decline, his decision making has been poor at times, and he wasn't playmaker.
If you're going to say Iverson had a poor shooting season... please take a look again. His FGP was only .003 lower than Kobe's... so if Iverson had a poor shooting season, so did Kobe.Anyway, Kobe might be on his way to being one of the greatest guards in NBA history, but Iverson has pretty much already claimed the spot of greatest little man in NBA History. Again, the gap isn't as wide as you guys are making it out to be.
I agree that AI might have more skill then Kobe but i believe that Kobe is more clutch. If you need him in the end of the game he'll be the go to guy as AI was. I think this year they both had balanced teams and Kobe was able to stand out more then AI. I think right now Kobe is the stronger player and will be til the end of both of there careers. Dont get me wrong but AI is still dominant but I believe Kobe>AI.
