What constitutes being a "Fan"? A Jerry McGuire Moment........

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by THE HCP, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Fez Hammersticks

    Fez Hammersticks スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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    I'm not bi-polar.

    I'm a realist.
     
  2. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    I'm bi-polar and I love it . . . I am rarely held accountable for my actions and I have access to the best drugs. :D
     
  3. Paxil

    Paxil Active Member

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    I seriously do think Nate has helped this team overachieve. I have my gripes with some of the things Nate does... but I do think that he has done an amazing job getting this group to win. They play hard just about every game. How many NBA teams can you say that about? That alone is worth gold.
     
  4. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    You really need the breakdown?

    (last year)
    Paul 3 years pro, point guard, MVP level season, probably one of the best point guards in the last twenty years.
    Chandler 6 years pro, 8 pts 9 rebounds career average.
    West 4 years pro, power forward, 27 years old (4 years of college), 20 pts, 9 rebounds per game.
    Peja 9 years pro, career 40% from three, put up 16 points per game and pulled down 4 1/2 boards per game.

    So put a once in a generation point guard with a very solid 7'1" center, a nearly 20/10 power forward with an inside and outside game, and a dead eye veteran wing and you have the potential for a helluva run. They key is that Paul had/has a couple of "safety valves" in Peja and West, a luxury Roy doesn't have (although Blake and LaMarcus sometimes fill this role, just not consistently).
     
  5. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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  6. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    And there is a dropoff from Paul to Roy, but not an insane one
    So, otherwise, kinda like Joel and Greg combined?
    So, much like just about every projection of LMA prior to the year. He is in his 3rd vs. 5th year, and didn't have 4 yrs of college. Then again, it was a progression of 17/7 to 18/8 to 20/9 last year. Is there a big difference in team wins between 17/7 and 20/9? I'm not sure.
    He's better than any combo of SFs we've had this year. But wouldn't you say that somehow between them Rudy and Webster and Travis should potentially have given us that?
    As I said, Paul>Roy, but I don't see the difference between the two being that much, especially when you look at that Paul generally is attacking the whole game, where Roy is still on-and-off. The point that LMA only sometimes fills the role of safety valve is a good one, but I'm not sure it's due to "inexperience". Perhaps it is, and if he just plays through it for another 3 years or so it'll happen that he's a good safety valve. It seems that our SFs should be able to cover the 16ppg @ 40% 3.

    So my projection of 58 wins is hurting (though I'm holding out hope for that 40-12 finish:)). Some may say that I had an overly optimistic view, and shouldn't let that get in the way of everyone else enjoying the team. So I ask...for those that picked 48 wins or whatever, do you just accept and embrace the poor play because you knew it'd be coming?

    The frustrating thing for me isn't that I picked a wrong number. It's when people come on and say "what, like you're smarter than Nate?!" or "How much pro basketball have you played?". The frustration comes b/c even in my relative inexperience in the game I see problems AND relatively immediate solutions in our team, and I'm not alone. There are posters on here much smarter and more experienced in the game than me, and THEY see the same types of things. So it comes down to a couple of choices for me: post reasons why we're not good, or just keep thinking it'll get better with time. It gets better with time and coaching and effort.
     
  7. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    This is honestly one of the most frustrating teams we've ever had. We have the talent to be great, but we're so up and down. At least when we sucked it was easier to write it off, but now that we have seen what we're capable of, it's much harder to feel "okay" after a loss. It would be one thing if people were on here complaining after a 20-40 point win, but a lot of posters have had complaints (for a while now) about Nate, Travis, and Sergio. It's not like these complaints have manifested in the last couple games or so. They have been consistent since last season, and I suspect they will continue until all three either improve or leave the team.

    With that said, I know how you feel HCP. I have been in your position in a way, and I know what it's like to be a part of the "inner circle." I used to get shit from posters for saying that Travis would be a good player his rookie season. I still think he's a good player, but I see his limitations and I don't think he fits in with the future of this team. I'm just trying to give my honest assessment of what Outlaw can do.

    Over the last five or six games I've felt a need to take a little breather from being a fan though. I can feel it negatively effecting my mood and I don't like it. One of the reasons why I quit covering the Blazers was because I got so burned out on sports. I was in sports journalism for seven years. I got to the point where I just couldn't watch anything anymore. I was soured on it. I realized what was happening and I quit. I didn't want to be another Jason Quick or John Canzano. Jaded and sour on the game. Sports used to be my passion. I used to watch the NFL and NBA religiously. Not just the Blazers, but other games too. Now I'm pretty much exclusively a Blazer fan, and that's it. It took me a couple years to be able to come back to the Blazers. I don't want to get burned out again.

    I think I've just been frustrated because I know what this team is capable of. I just want them to be great. I want to see them reach their full potential.
     
  8. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    You have to keep in mind that they aren't "supposed" to be great this year. They're integrating four rookies (well, integrating three rookies...Bayless is being integrated into the bench). If they were a surprise title contender, that would be great. But this year's most important function is to develop Oden, Batum and Fernandez (and hopefully Bayless), let all the players discover their roles together and figure out the optimal combinations of players.

    Plus, there's still the money LaFrentz (and Frye and Diogu) represent that can be invested in another useful player, either by the trade deadline or in the off-season.

    This shouldn't be a season of frustration. You should sets your sights low (the players shouldn't, but we should) and just enjoy watching the players develop. This is an exciting part of the process...knowing its still all ahead. Stress-free since the team isn't supposed to accomplish anything major yet. If they do...bonus.
     
  9. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

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    uh, no...believe it or not joel and oden are 2 different people. Chandler got those stats by himself and then ANOTHER player came in and added even more...that entire post is screaming blind homerism but i dont feel like dissecting the entire thing but this was a major one
     
  10. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

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    link

    not bragging...but SOME of you should really heed my advice...you would be more sane
     
  11. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    The higher the opinion on our talent, the lower the opinion on our coach.

    I don't consider Nate to be a "great" coach by any means....but IMHO, the folks ripping on him have a badly inflated view of our players. For years, people banged on TBob for not being a chemistry major - but in terms of ON COURT chemistry, this team is as bad as any Whittsitt roster!

    To stick with the popular "cake" analogy, you can't bake a cake by collecting dozens of eggs. You need OTHER ingredients.
     
  12. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    That was the major one? Oden is getting 8/7 by himself. Not much off from Chandler's 8/9.

    Przybilla is adding another 6/8. In addition, they provide stouter interior defense than Chandler, IMO.

    I'd much rather have Oden/Przybilla than Chandler/Ely/Armstrong.
     
  13. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    i agree with your overall sentiment HCP, and i think that it's a small minority here that have the mood swings or aconsistently negative vibe.

    but for me, i think it's clear that this team is probably not playing up to its potential. or even worse, maybe it is. i know we are young, but almost every star/very good player in the NBA was a star/very good by their 2rd year. roy obviously is a star, but i don't expect LMA, blake, joel, travis, martell, frye, or sergio to be getting any better. they've had enough time to show what they can do. and this is it. and that's the majority of our rotation. what you see is what you will be getting. so we need to ask ourselves, can this team get it done eventually? if you are one of those that believes the answer is "no" unless changes are made, you'll probably making some frustrated posts after a loss. doesn't mean you are a bad fan, though.
     
  14. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

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    ok...maybe not the biggest but the first one I saw :wink:
     
  15. Rodolfo

    Rodolfo Double Stamp>Triple Stamp

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    The best way to combat the negativity on here is to ignore it...who's with me?
     
  16. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    I'm down!
     
  17. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Please DaRizzle...I would expect more from you than to blow something off as blind homerism instead of being lazy and condescending.

    There were 3 players that played any time at all at C last year.
    Tyson Chandler: 35mpg, 11.8 ppg, 11.7 rpg
    Melvin Ely: 12mpg, 3.9ppg, 2.8 rpg (in both PF and C)
    Hilton Armstrong: 15mpg, 4.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg

    Totals: (b/c I don't want to have you call me out for blind homerism for not dissecting which roles were the "C" roles, I'm "averaging" Ely and Armstrongs minutes, since they're about the same at C. I'm assuming the extra 13mpg were split between a hybrid of both that got 4.3 ppg and 2.9 rpg in those 13 min)

    48mpg, 16.1 ppg, 14.6 rpg.

    Now let's look at our boys, shall we? Without the glare of blind homerism, here's what ESPN sees:

    Joel: 23 mpg, 6.3 ppg. 8.2 rpg.
    Greg: 22mpg, 7.6ppg. 7.2 rpg.

    Total: 45mpg, 13.9ppg, 15.4 rpg. I won't even upscale it, I'll just leave it at 45 min.

    So I can't use Joel and Greg to approximate what NO got from it's center core? I'm disappointed.
     
  18. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    The ones I'd disagree with are Webster and Sergio. Webster is in roughly the same position as Travis was coming to our team, except he got integrated with the starters over the last 2 years while Outlaw was given the bench role. But most seem to forget that Outlaw's big "leap" was between years 4 and 5. Webster is in his 3-to-4 year right now. I still think he's young enough and talented enough to still be a quite good player. Do I think "All-Star"? I don't think so. But look at the mold of player Nate and KP are trying to turn him into: How many of the Raja Bell/Bruce Bowen/Ime Udoka/Shane Battier crowd were starting in the NBA at 21 and 22? Battier was the most accomplished after Duke, and he was the same age as a rookie that Webster is right now. They seemed to develop ok. :dunno:

    Sergio's more of an enigma for me, but I'm not of the opinion that you give up on a 21y/o PG with an elite skill. You can bring up his "horrible" shooting and "awful" defense, but both have improved over the last year, and he's shown the effort to work to improve it. I'm not advocating giving him the keys to the offense for 35 mpg, but I don't think he's stagnated yet.
     
  19. Rodolfo

    Rodolfo Double Stamp>Triple Stamp

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    You best RECOGNIZE!
    [​IMG]
     
  20. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Only you and I truly understand the beauty of this photo! I actually cried when I first saw this! Well done!
     

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