See if you can figure out which player is leading the team in the following categories, and without cheating/looking it up on some stats site: Rebounding FG% FT% Steals
Rebounding = Gooden FG% = Joakim Noah FT% = Larry Hughes (maybe Gordon after tonight?) Steals = Larry Hughes
Hughes leads the Bulls in steals at 1.4 and Gooden in rebounding at 8.8. Larry Hughes is #1 in freethrows if you take into account that there is no way that Kirk Hinrich or Lindsey Hunter could have possibly taken a qualified amount of them. Looks like 1 wrong, and not 1 correct. Joakim Noah is #2 behind Aaron Gray in FG%.
Individual Leaders <table class="yspwhitebg" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="ysprow2"><td colspan="3"><table border="0"><tbody><tr> <td></td><td colspan="2" class="yspscores">Derrick Rose #1, Point Guard Leads team with 46.5 FG%</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1"> <td class="yspdetailttl" height="18" width="40%"> Stat</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" height="18" width="46%">Player</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="right" height="18" width="14%">AVG </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> Scoring</td><td class="yspscores">Ben Gordon</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">20.6 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow2"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> Rebounds</td><td class="yspscores">Joakim Noah</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">5.7 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow1"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> Assists</td><td class="yspscores">Derrick Rose</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">6.0 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow2"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> FG%</td><td class="yspscores">Derrick Rose</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">46.5 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow1"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> FT%</td><td class="yspscores">Larry Hughes</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">85.0 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow2"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> 3PT%</td><td class="yspscores">Ben Gordon</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">41.0 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow1"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> Blocks</td><td class="yspscores">Tyrus Thomas</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">1.5 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow2"><td class="yspscores" nowrap="nowrap"> Steals</td><td class="yspscores">Luol Deng</td><td class="yspscores" align="right">1.0 </td></tr> <tr class="ysprow1"> <td colspan="3" class="yspscores" height="18"> Complete Team Statistics</td></tr></tbody></table>
I hate to sound like a broken record, and everyone knows were not that good, but I feel compelled to note that M.J. had a couple seasons where he would have led our team in every stat sans 3pt%.
I think that's why BG's one-dimensionality bugs me so much. Definitely not a fair comparison, but if the goal is championships, the bulls need more players closer in overall skill level to MJ.
With all the lotto picks we've had, we could have had any of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Al Jefferson, David West, or Caron Butler. If the trade rumors were true, we could have had Dwyane Wade. Since the 2002 draft, the two guys from all those draft picks that are closest to a Jordan are Rose and Gordon. If Rose is the home run, then Gordon is something like a triple. Jay Williams, bust. Hinrich seems to have peaked a couple of seasons ago. Deng hasn't been healthy for 2 seasons. Tyrus Thomas is maybe a top 150 player in the league. Though I'm not sure we could have done any better than Noah, he's not a starter. I don't see teams lining up to trade us guys like Kobe or Pierce for guys who aren't in our current rotation, or even guys in our current rotation. But the stories have been that we've turned down guys who appear to be clear upgrades for the team and fill needs to keep Deng (for example). I don't see why it makes any sense to harp on the one guy who's come through all that missing few games and performing just about to the best of his capability, and who you'd actually have a hard time finding someone better.
Sorry, but Roy is a lot closer to Jordan and Gay, Iguodala, and Butler probably are too. I'd take Roy, Butler and Gay and start them over BG at shooting guard today. Jordan was a defensive player of the year for crying out loud. Do you think BG is ever going to sniff that? The only comparison between the two is that they are both SG's, and both average more than 18 points per game and played for the bulls. That's it, that's the end of the comparison. BG and Jordan even score differently. That's why I said it wasn't a fair comparison, mostly because there is no comparison. BG shouldn't even be in the same thread. So stop it. Jordan averaged 30 per game on 50% shooting, I think you better freshen up on your MJ lore. And why we don't have have most of those guys is because we had BG (Roy) and TT and Deng or wanted Deng over them at the time. And that is a completely different thread. And I doubt the Wade trade thing.
I'm not suggesting Gordon is better than those guys, but unless you do have one of those guys, it makes no sense to take out your frustration with Gordon by wanting to see him not play. I don't get it, because the guys WE DO HAVE are to Gordon what Gordon is to Jordan. There's Sam Smith's take on the deal for Wade: http://www.courant.com/topic/cs-070308asksamsmith,0,1249793.story?page=1 And then there's Jay Mariotti's:
That still makes BG slightly above average, and definitely not a cornerstone of a championship caliber team, at least not as a starter. And I want to see BG used more effectively, not dumped unless he demands a cap killing contract. I don't get why you guys are so hung up on BG. We know what this team is relying on BG: a team struggling to make the 8th seed if everybody plays the right way. The only way this team gets better is if the guys behind him develop into something better than they are now, and they aren't going to do that with BG playing 40 minutes a night and taking most of the shots. And the bulls aren't winning that way either, so what is the big deal? There's Sam Smith's take on the deal for Wade: http://www.courant.com/topic/cs-070308asksamsmith,0,1249793.story?page=1 Sam isn't really definitive either. But it is consistent with Paxson valuing the guys he has, although I would have done that trade if the pistons would have taken it. And Darko wouldn't have been such a bust as a 7th pick, either. And then there's Jay Mariotti's:[/QUOTE] Mariotti isn't really good source for anything since he probably got the information the same way you did.
The "D" in NBDL stands for Development. The guys behind him aren't likely to develop into anything close - few in the league are close.
Ben Gordon isn't a guy that can lead us to a championship team all by himself? That's news! Just because he can't do that, doesn't mean he should be dumped, or shouldn't start. You don't go from the best player on the team to a 6th man, well unless we were to end up getting Kobe or Wade, then it would be justified. But bringing Gordon off the bench for the hell of it srves no purpose. The Bulls have two things to do to try to become a championship team. The first is to continue to develop Rose into a superstar. The second, is go get a star player (whether a fringe star or superstar) in the front court. A guy like Chris Kaman may be all we need, kind of like Ilgauskus in Cleveland. It might take a guy like Amare or Bosh. The easiest move the Bulls can make to pick up their level of play is to ditch Del Negro at a competent time, and pick up a great defensive coach like Tom Thibodeau or Jeff Van Gundy.
Few in the league are close to MJ or BG? BG is a slightly above average player, there are plenty of guys close and better. And there are some on the bulls. Hell, Larry Hughes isn't that far off from BG.
Gordon's not a "slightly above average player." He's an elite (top 15 out of ~450 players) scorer and 2pt/3pt shooter. Same can't be said about any particular thing about Hughes except FT%. Same can't be said about any particular player the Bulls had since MJ left, except Brand and maybe Jalen Rose. Derrick Rose may change that, but there's nothing wrong with having Gordon as the #2 guy. He's also leading the team in FTA. His mere presence on the court opens things up for the rest of the players - when he's double teamed the defense is playing 3 on 4 on the rest of our guys. Even if he were a "slightly above average player," it doesn't call for playing guys who are considerably worse than average players for no good reason. As is, our guard tandem is arguably top 5 in the league. 38.5 PPG and 10 APG, shooting a combined .463 from 2pt and .406 from 3pt. Knock yourself out finding more than a handful that can top it.
Ben Gordon is actually far away better than Hughes. (PTS, REBS, AST, STL, BLK in Per 36) PPG: Gordon - 20.7 | Hughes - 16.4 | ADVANTAGE GORDON RPG: Gordon - 3.3 | Hughes - 4.1 | ADVANTAGE HUGHES APG: Gordon - 3.8 | Hughes - 2.4 | ADVANTAGE GORDON SPG: Gordon - 0.7 | Hughes - 1.8 | ADVANTAGE HUGHES BPG: Gordon - 0.3 | Hughes - 0.4 | ADVANTAGE HUGHES TS%: Gordon - 57.9 | Hughes 53.5 | ADVANTAGE GORDON OWS: Gordon - 2.3 | Hughes - 0.8 | ADVANTAGE GORDON DWS: Gordon - 0.4 | Hughes - 0.5 | ADVANTAGE HUGHES O-RTG: Gordon - 112 | Hughes 109 | ADVANTAGE GORDON D-RTG: Gordon - 112 | Hughes - 108 | ADVANTAGE HUGHES PER: Gordon - 17.7 | Hughes - 15.4 | ADVANTAGE GORDON Production: Gordon - 18.9 | Hughes - 17.1 | ADVANTAGE GORDON Opponents Production: Gordon - 14.7 | Hughes - 15.1 | ADVANTAGE GORDON +/-: Gordon - +6.3 | Hughes - -0.4 | ADVANTAGE GORDON Roland Rating: Gordon - +4.7 | Hughes - +1.4 | ADVANTAGE GORDON That's 10 to 5 by my count in favor of Gordon. Ben Gordon scores in a much greater volume than Larry Hughes at a much greater efficiency. Not only that, but he's the Bulls highest volume and most efficient scorer, and their second best playmaker, behind Rose. What do you want out of your shooting guard position? High volume scoring on good efficiency is the most common answer, and that's what Gordon brings. You don't bench your far and away best offensive player for a nominal defensive upgrade (or downgrade, based on opponents production). Ben Gordon has been the Bulls best player this season. He, more so than anyone, should have no worries about losing his starting spot to anyone, short of a trade for Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, or Joe Johnson. (Derrick Rose has a pretty strong case to keep his starting spot as well). Gordon is our best player. Rose will probably be our best player by next season, or the season after that. That doesn't mean we have to ditch Gordon, just because he isn't our best player. The past year, the complaint was that Gordon isn't a guy that can lead a team, he is a second option. Now that we have that first option (who should grow into that role completely in the next 2 years), people want to jettison the guy who was described prior to the acquisition fo the number one guy, the perfect #2 guy...while that player is having a great season? Gordon is fine. He will go down as possibly the greatest three point shooter in NBA history. He will likely finish at least in the top 3, with Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, with a chance to become the greatest three point shooter in NBA history. This is the type of guy you want on your team. Gordon is the least of the Bulls problem. There is no use continuing to nitpick at him, when we have such dire problems in the frontcourt. There is no doubt in my mind that we can trade Deng for an expiring contract if we are gang bang on pursuing 2010 to bring in a superstar free agent in the front court. I would much rather trade Hinrich or Nocioni to make that happen, but if it comes down to a decision of Deng vs. Gordon, Deng is getting his ass shipped out. Look at the Celtics model of a big 3. We already have 2 parts of the big three in Rose/Gordon. We just need that last piece, which should be a front court player. After we have the big three core in place, it's just a matter of getting role players that fit our big three, and can commit to making a championship happen.
He's not a top 15 overall player though, which is the problem. Lots of guys could score more if they shot more. Again, don't let the youth and inexperience of the rest of the team make you think BG is a great player. Yes, he's a terrific 3pt shooter, but to say he's more than a rich man's Craig Hodges is a stretch. He gets blocked on 25% of his drives to the basket. His FTA's are relatively low compared to his usage. And when he gets double teamed, he's more likely to turn it over than find the open guy. The bulls guard tandem may be top five in scoring, but what are they in TO's, FTA, assists, and steals? They clearly aren't scoring enough to beat other teams, so they need to either get better at scoring or figure out how to win games other ways. Being a high scoring backcourt isn't the only way to win. And in the bulls case, it isn't a winning formula at all.
