The battle for New York continues [update--state wants a tribute]

speeds · Jan 6, 2009

Can you count, suckers? I say, the future is ours... if you can count! Can you dig it?!

MMA still isn't sanctioned in New York, the home of countless legendary prize fights. But that isn't deterring the UFC and its President Dana White, who will recommence their fight to sanction their events tomorrow.

CagePotato is reporting that the State of New York is in deficit, like the rest of the country, in total $15-billion in the red. An independent study determined that a UFC event (UFC 100 @ MSG, perhaps?) would bring nearly $12-million in revenue to the state.

A legislative session in Albany will re-address the issue tommorow.

The bill will need to go through the state house and Senate before being signed by Gov. Patterson. In addition to holding an event in Madison Square Garden, the UFC has plans for shows in Albany and Buffalo.
Click to expand...

Celtic Fan · Jan 6, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues

That's a worthwhile battle and all... but THIS is a real battle worth watching.

especially when one girls says "I find Gina Carano Hot"

<div style="border: 1px solid #0893d5;width:427px;"><object width="427" height="300"><param name="movie" value="http://www.rawvegas.tv/ext.php?uniqueVidID=a3a7bbf382b2f045237e1ccc7bb507"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="uniqueVidID=a3a7bbf382b2f045237e1ccc7bb507"></param><embed src="http://www.rawvegas.tv/ext.php?uniqueVidID=a3a7bbf382b2f045237e1ccc7bb507" flashvars="uniqueVidID=a3a7bbf382b2f045237e1ccc7bb507" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="427" height="300"></embed></object></div><a href="http://www.rawvegas.tv/watch/mma-fix-presents-mma-ring-girl-search/a3a7bbf382b2f045237e1ccc7bb507">Watch MMA Fix Presents MMA Ring Girl Search on RawVegas.tv</a>

Celtic Fan · Jan 7, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues

Where is the love for this thread????

Big Frame · Jan 7, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues

Man, I would love to see a lesbian encounter of that chick with Gina...

speeds · Jan 13, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7955&zoneid=2

The New York State Assembly’s Tourism, Arts, and Sports Development Committee begins its session on Tuesday, and among several pieces of legislature up for vote is bill 1-11458-A, designed to regulate the sport of MMA in New York.

Originally presented during the committee’s June meeting, the bill’s vote was postponed to January when several committee members attempted to change their initial votes. On Nov. 12, the bill’s sponsor, committee chairman Steve Englebright, held an informal roundtable for legislators and interested members of the public. Among those in attendance was Marc Ratner, the UFC’s Vice President of Regulatory Affairs, who spoke to attendees about the sport’s regulation.

The bill is not on the committee’s agenda this week, but could be voted on as early as next week. Assemblyman Bob Reilly, a democratic member of the committee who represents the 109th district of New York, opposes the legislation and recently spoke to MMAWeekly.com about his feelings on the sport and attempts to bring it to the Empire State.

MMAWeekly.com: Can you tell me about your feelings on the current bill and about mixed martial arts in general?

Reilly: My feeling about the bill is that it’s a flawed piece of legislation. And my feeling about mixed martial arts is that there are many problems with it. It really is a glorification of brutality and violence. Many people believe that violence in the media, or any portrayal of violence, or violence itself as I think happens in mixed martial arts, in fact, makes people immune to violence and in fact promotes violence.

In New York State, we pass a lot of laws to stop violence, especially among young people in schools, but domestic violence (as well). I think that this basically is a glorification of violence, but it certainly promotes violence. In itself, I think it’s a very brutal sport that creates, obviously, physical harm to the participants, and I don’t think there’s any other sport who’s purpose is to harm your opponent. But we know that in mixed martial arts, that, in fact, is one of the purposes.

I think economically, it’s a very poor thing for New York State, that just the economics of it would not be beneficial to our state. It just draws money out of the state. I compare it to gambling and what happens in gambling. If you take Atlantic City for example, you have casinos that are going broke, surrounded by slums. If you look at Las Vegas, basically, the same thing is happening, where 20 months in a row gambling revenue has decreased, and Las Vegas and the growth there has created many slum areas in Las Vegas.

MMAWeekly.com: Do you believe the idea that it’s bringing in tax revenue to the state is erroneous?

Reilly: No, I think it does, but I think if you had a gate – the numbers that people would use here – the live gate of 20,000 people. And where I live, next to the city of Albany, we have an arena that seats 19,000. If you had that, and the tickets averaged 200 dollars – which is not unreasonable, and are in fact Ultimate Fighting projections, not mine – then it would be a gate of 4 million dollars and they might project a half a million to the local economy. But at the same time, it would suck out of our local economy a tremendous amount of money. In New York State, we have a budget deficit that we’re trying to address now of almost 15 billion dollars. And I don’t think that Ultimate Fighting adds to our economy… I think it detracts from our economy.

MMAWeekly.com: How would it suck money out of the economy?

Reilly: Ultimate Fighting, that franchise is owned by interests in Las Vegas. If you have a gate in the city of Albany, the live gate would be 4 million dollars. There’s revenue that would stay here, lets us say a half a million. But three and a half million would go right out of our economy and out of our state to Vegas, and I think that’s harmful to our local economy. It doesn’t generate money on a long-time basis. It’s what I call a “false economy.” There’s many examples of this. It’s a stretch from Ultimate Fighting, of course, but our whole problem with our financial industry and whatever. Or gambling, which I think is a better analogy. I think the projections of revenue coming in, you have to look at a bigger picture, and the bigger picture is not so beneficial. And of course, the real money in sports, which isn’t addressed, is the hundreds of millions of dollars taken in by television, especially pay per view.

MMAWeekly.com: When did you first come to this conclusion about mixed martial arts? It was first banned by legislators in 1997.

Reilly: My exposure to it is relatively new, and I’ve only been in office four years, so I was not in office when it was done. A year ago, unknown to almost every legislator, we in fact passed legislation that would legalize it in the assembly – we have two houses, assembly and the Senate. It passed unanimously in the assembly. But in fact, most of us didn’t even know what we were passing because the legislation, as you read it, appeared to be just a technical change in some regulatory language of the state athletic commission. So I found that really (to be an) under the table type of way of getting that legalized. I was unaware of it then. (The new bill) came up for consideration, and it goes through a committee. The committee that it was assigned to was tourism. And I had Jeff Blatnick come in to see me, and he’s a very respectful, articulate person. I said, “I don’t know if I can support this, Jeff.” When it came up for a vote in the committee, I spoke against it without any intention to sway any other votes, but in fact, my colleagues, who were not very conversant with Ultimate Fighting, voted it down. And I became what I call the “accidental opposition.” It’s not my huge issue in my life.

Of course, we have advocates in New York, and people that want it here, but the vast majority of people are unaware of it, because their only exposure would be flipping through their TV channels, and most come to it and flip it off. I have on a regular basis had my constituents come up to me and say, “You’re doing the right thing. Keep this out, this is wrong.” The vast majority of my constituents are opposed to it, because they think it’s brutal. I find it very offensive, and even more with women than men – if that’s sexist, so be it – to see a woman knee another woman in the stomach, to see someone grab another person’s head and knee them in the head. To see a guy prone on the ground – and I watched this last night, in fact – and then get beat in the head five or six times with the fist. It’s not something that I think we want to show to people. This is the type of society we have.

MMAWeekly.com: How do you feel about boxing?

Reilly: No one’s impressed by this, but I was a running coach for 26 years, and I’ve coached national champions in a few countries. I compare Ultimate Fighting to amateur boxing and pro boxing. And I’ve always been a boxing fan, and grew up admiring people like Rocky Marciano or Sugar Ray Robinson. But I see the brutality of professional boxing now, and the skill of amateur boxing. In amateur boxing, one emphasizes skill, and the other, a much more brutal type of activity, and much more harm to the individual boxers. What I've seen of mixed martial arts, and the way they’ve advocated for it in New York State, tells me that without very careful consideration and regulation, which we’re not prepared to do right now, we would be down the road of the sordid history of boxing, which I think you would have a hard time defending. I still think amateur boxing is a great sport. I’ve always been a fan of all boxing, but if I had my druthers, I would change professional boxing into amateur boxing.

MMAWeekly.com: Is that to say that if mixed martial artists put on headgear, outlawed certain things like elbows on the ground, certain types of techniques, you might be more open to it?

Reilly: Sure.

MMAWeekly.com: Have you seen any change in sentiment since the information meeting held by Tourism, Arts, and Sports Development chairman Steve Englebrecht?

Reilly: Well, there was no one there to change the sentiment. There were only four legislators there. Two, I think, opposed to it, and I believe chairman Englebrecht is neutral, that’s what he’s told me, and Jonathan Bing, who would be a person in favor of it… that’s the impression I got. Everyone else was just an advocate for it.

I was invited in a backwards way. I live 150 miles from New York City. I received a faxed letter from the chairman to Cablevision that was two weeks old; I received it the day before the meeting. So members of the committee were not invited. So what kind of a meeting was that? That’s the kind of process that I’ve found completely flawed in this whole process. I became more against it for a number of reasons. For example, I found the commissioner of our state athletic commission, a woman, completely ill informed about the rules. For example, she said, “well, you couldn’t elbow somebody” – I think there’s a famous fight, I’ve never seen it, where some fellow with a cauliflower ear is elbowed in the ear…

MMAWeekly.com: It was a punch to the ear…

Reilly: …and there was puss and blood that goes all over. One of our members had seen that, and I guess it really turns people off. Well, she asked him about it, and the commissioner says, ‘oh, you can’t elbow according to these rules.’ Now this is our commissioner, who is supposed to regulate this sport. Then, she said there’s 500 illegal fights in New York State. She later – when I challenged her on that – modified that, what I consider a ridiculous statement, but I think that tells us that we’re not in a position to legalize this sport. I became more confirmed in my beliefs that we don’t want to legalize this right now.

I think that the idea that what we're doing is mixing skills is the problem, too. And I think the rule change would be that when you're boxing, you box. When you're wrestling, you wrestle. But there's a reason why when a boxer falls to one knee or two knees, that the other boxer can't come up and hit him in the head. And there's a reason why in wrestling, you can't hold a guy and at the same time whack him. It's for the safety of the participant. You can't do that. You asked me if I could imagine some rule changes that would demonstrate the skill of the various martial arts more clearly, and I would find that acceptable and the answer is yes. But I think the violence level would be greatly reduced, and I don't know if promoters and advocates want to do that.
Click to expand...

speeds · Jan 13, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues

From the above statements you can tell that this man thinks the State should get a cut of everything, including live gate. He glosses over the fact that the 20,000 fans that descend on Madison Square Garden wouldn't all be from New York--some of them would fly in, get hotel rooms, eat in restaurants, shop in stores, pay for cabs, etc., etc.. Which is what the UFC's economic presentation tried to explain. Apparently this guy thinks that the UFC's profit from the event in PPV revenue and live gate should be going, at least in part, to the State. Ok, that's his opinion. Sounds like a technical detail, really. Not every MMA show is going to generate a ton of money, or put back a lot into the community. Much like not every lower tier sports event is a boon for the local economy. The UFC is an extraordinary case. However, is it enough to block MMA from being sanctioned in the State? He seems to equate all MMA with the UFC brand. Whether or not the UFC is willing to part with a cut of their profits from various revenue streams related to putting on a PPV at Madison Square Garden (hint--they aren't), he is also opposed to MMA ideologically. So it sounds like the revenue argument is just an official excuse to make it seem like he isn't just going on his gut feeling that MMA is barbaric.

Well, then we get to a key contradiction. He claims that he enjoys amateur boxing, and the pro boxing of yesteryear that emphasized skill over kill. He goes so far as to say he would rather have amateur boxing than pro boxing in the State--which seems to suggest that the money coming into the State isn't an issue, since nobody pays to watch guys in headgear fight unless they are celebrities. It also demonstrates a fundamental lack of appreciation for the skill level involved in MMA. Many MMA fighters are world-class in several disciplines, something virtually no boxers, amateur or otherwise, can claim. He prattles on about safety without bringing up specific examples of how MMA is more dangerous than other sports other than the James Thompson ear-busting at EliteXC's shit-show last year. Well most MMA fans and critics feel that Thompson shouldn't have been allowed to compete with his ear swollen like that so again we're talking about a technical detail and an extraordinary case. I've never seen anyone fight with their ear like that in all my years watching MMA unless it has happened during the fight. Clearly he isn't interested in hearing about the study conducted about the risk of injury for pro MMA as compared to other pro sports (hint: not higher), or the fact that many fights end without significant punches or kicks thrown.

Finally, he suggests that rule changes that make the martial arts involved in MMA should be instituted that can make the skill level more apparent would make the sport more appealing to him. Naturally he doesn't give any examples. It is another unlettered point in his argument he throws out to mask the fact his only core complaint with the sport is that it is 'a glorification of violence', which is a flimsy argument for someone in his position to be making. Supposedly he believes that making the sport safer, so as to emulate collegiate wrestling and amateur boxing, would be enough to change his mind. Well, maybe there is a world where he can personally reshape international athletic competitions to suit his druthers, but it isn't ours. Its pointless to call him biased, everyone has biases, but it goes to show that MMA is still a long way from being mainstream, or even understood by people who would vote to allow or disallow it in one of the most populace States of the Union.

speeds · Jan 13, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--not looking good]

Just another note: MMA is currently sanctioned in Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, and San Jose; otherwise known as 8 of the 10 biggest cities in the United States. Sanctioning has been approved in Pennsylvania but the legislation hasn't passed yet as of today--though it is pretty much a done deal. That makes 9 of 10 if you count Philly.

speeds · Jan 14, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--not looking good]

Sounds like CagePotato has some similar complaints to mine... almost word for word!
http://www.cagepotato.com/ny-assemb...tion-mma-reveals-himself-be-uncommonly-stupid

New York State Assemblyman Bob Reilly is doing his best to keep mixed martial arts illegal in his home state, an effort that was successful in the past thanks to his idiotic comparisons between MMA and dog fighting. The tide seems to be turning in the state, and legalization now seems inevitable thanks in part to the UFC’s lobbying efforts and the new pro-MMA chairwoman of the Tourism, Arts, and Sports Development Committee, Melvina Lathan.
But Reilly is still fighting it because, well, he just doesn’t like it. And in order to try and prove that it will be bad for the state, he’s prepared to say a bunch of shit that makes no sense at all and come up with brand new flawed comparisons. Here’s Reilly talking with MMA Weekly, explaining how allowing MMA in New York would actually take money out of the local economy:
Ultimate Fighting, that franchise is owned by interests in Las Vegas. If you have a gate in the city of Albany, the live gate would be 4 million dollars. There’s revenue that would stay here, lets us say a half a million. But three and a half million would go right out of our economy and out of our state to Vegas, and I think that’s harmful to our local economy. It doesn’t generate money on a long-time basis. It’s what I call a “false economy.” There’s many examples of this. It’s a stretch from Ultimate Fighting, of course, but our whole problem with our financial industry and whatever. Or gambling, which I think is a better analogy. I think the projections of revenue coming in, you have to look at a bigger picture, and the bigger picture is not so beneficial. And of course, the real money in sports, which isn’t addressed, is the hundreds of millions of dollars taken in by television, especially pay per view.

Got that? MMA would take money out of the economy because not all of the money generated by it would stay in the state. By that logic, any company now doing business within the state of New York that is not headquartered there is also sucking money out of the economy. Take it from the guy who knows all about the “financial industry and whatever.”
It should be noted that Reilly lives near Albany, not New York City. So maybe he doesn’t realize that a show at Madison Square Garden would not only bring in money from existing New Yorkers, but also from outside the state. For every UFC event spectators come from all over the country, purchasing airline tickets, hotel rooms, food, cab rides, and other goods and services, thus injecting money into the local economy. But apparently that’s not good enough for Reilly, because the UFC is also making money off of pay-per-views.
The worst part about this argument is that Reilly doesn’t actually make it. He doesn’t explain why it would be better to have none of the UFC’s money rather than some of it, but instead keeps comparing it to gambling, with brilliant analogies like this one:
If you take Atlantic City for example, you have casinos that are going broke, surrounded by slums. If you look at Las Vegas, basically, the same thing is happening, where 20 months in a row gambling revenue has decreased, and Las Vegas and the growth there has created many slum areas in Las Vegas.

And this relates to MMA how? Reilly doesn’t explain. He only repeats the comparison over and over, without pointing out any way that the two are related. This is the kind of reasoning the UFC is up against in their fight to get the sport legalized.
When it comes down to it, Reilly (a former running coach, he’s careful to mention) just doesn’t like MMA. He thinks it’s too brutal and promotes violence. That, at least, is a somewhat valid opinion that can be supported, though we may ultimately disagree with it. MMA is a violent sport. So is boxing, which Reilly says he’s a fan of, but only the amateur type. As for rule changes that might make MMA acceptable to him, he suggests the following:
I think that the idea that what we're doing is mixing skills is the problem, too. And I think the rule change would be that when you're boxing, you box. When you're wrestling, you wrestle. But there's a reason why when a boxer falls to one knee or two knees, that the other boxer can't come up and hit him in the head. And there's a reason why in wrestling, you can't hold a guy and at the same time whack him. It's for the safety of the participant. You can't do that.

Oh, but you can, Mr. Reilly. It’s called MMA. It's actually incredibly popular, not to mention safer than boxing. And it’s coming to New York.
Click to expand...

Celtic Fan · Jan 14, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--not looking good]

The biggest whole in this dork's logic is the 'money will be leaving the state' bit. How the fuck does he figure that.

does that mean all the big business that have Headquarter's outside of NY and do business in NY are taking money out of the state??? This guy is talking out of his ass. He's opposed to MMA but I don't think he knows why, he just knows the stereotypes.

speeds · Jan 21, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--not looking good]

Well this is still going. Bob Reilly is still fighting hard, making ludicrous statements and displaying a high level of ignorance with regard to the sport.

"What the people from Ultimate Fighting will tell you is that 'We'vechanged the rules and it's no longer this brutal, no-holds-barred sportthat it was in the past,"' Assemblyman Bob Reilly said. "That's farfrom the whole story. What they don't tell you is what is allowed.Kicking to the head. Kneeing them. Sitting on top of them andrepeatedly punching them in the head and face. They don't tell youthose things."
Click to expand...

He also goes on to add that he doesn't really care about MMA and is more interested in agriculture. WTF? Why stand in the way, then?

speeds · Jan 21, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--not looking good]

Try before you buy.

Suffolk County Assemblyman Steven Englebright has introduced a bill to New York Legislators aimed at legalizing mixed martial arts in the “Empire State.”

MMA is currently unregulated in New York, and appeared to be on the verge of being sanctioned in 2008, but some eleventh-hour concerns from uneducated members of the Assembly Committee on Tourism, Arts and Sports Development scuttled its passage. Another session on the matter began in the state capital on January 7 and could be voted on as early as next week.

The new bill up for consideration includes a three-year ‘Sunset Clause,’ which is basically a law with an expiration date. A sunset clause would give legislators an opportunity to study the sport of MMA and gauge its economic and social impact on the state of New York.

The bill would expire after three years unless legislative action is taken to extend it.

UFC Vice President for Government and Regulatory Affairs Marc Ratner and president of the company Dana White are ratcheting up the economic rhetoric and financial success of its mixed martial events in hopes of using the economic benefits of live shows to influence voters who maybe on the fence.

Money talks … and the UFC has the numbers to back it up. An independent economic impact study indicated that the promotion would generate about $11.5 million for the “Big Apple.”

Still, it will have an uphill battle so long as detractors like Democratic Assemblyman Bob Reilly, who referred to the sport of MMA as a “Glorification of brutality and violence,” have their say in the vote.

Keep your fingers crossed.
Click to expand...

http://mmamania.com/2009/01/20/asse...zation-of-mma-in-new-york-adds-sunset-clause/

Celtic Fan · Feb 5, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--hope springs eternal?]

Even if MMA is sanctioned in NY, there could be another roadblock to the UFC coming to NY.

- White also mentioned that if the bill to legalize MMA in New York includes a 10% gate tax, then the UFC will not run shows in the state. Maryland and Hawaii's MMA regulations call for a 10% gate tax which is why the UFC won't run shows in either state.
Click to expand...

speeds · Feb 6, 2009

Re: The battle for New York continues [update--hope springs eternal?]

^ Yeah, that is a deal breaker. The UFC doesn't grease wheels.

Log in or Sign up

The battle for New York continues [update--state wants a tribute]

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

Big Frame Well-Known Member

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

The battle for New York continues [update--state wants a tribute]

Moderators

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

Big Frame Well-Known Member

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

Share This Page

Useful Searches