Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on the..

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by KingSpeed, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    I agree. Travis was developed by the Blazers not to have a conscience, because that was his best chance for success as an NBA player. He can iso and create a shot whenever he feels like it, and makes a lot of tough shots.

    #25 it is!
     
    GriLtCheeZ, Jan 8, 2009
    #21
  2. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    Actually if you are down by 1 point and it's the end of the game with 9 seconds left, you don't want Travis to run the clock down. You want to take the best shot you can as quickly as possible, so if you miss you at least have time for an offensive rebound or you can foul.

    The last play of the game made total sense to me. Outlaw's singular skill is that he can pretty much create a 42% shot any time he wants to, from wherever he wants to, and he'll make it around that 42% shot in the first quarter or with 2 seconds left in the game. 42% doesn't sound great, but it's actually not bad in the clutch, because a lot of guys (even on our own team) choke and shoot a lot worse with the pressure of the game on them.

    It was a smart play call, and Outlaw took the shot early like he should have. (Now, I think he probably could've got a slightly easier shot for himself without driving into a doubleteam first, but hey, he made it.)
     
    mook, Jan 8, 2009
    #22
  3. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    Um, the team was down by one point. If it is tied, I totally agree that you wait until the buzzer, but taking the shot with time left to either get an offensive rebound or to foul a Detroit player is exactly the right call. I'm actually a bit surprised that you wrote the above. Always leave yourself mutliple opportunities at the end of a game if you are losing. It's Coaching 101.

    Perhaps you should go a bit easier on your "Basketball IQ" criticisms of Outlaw. He made the right play and you are saying he should have shot later.
     
    PapaG, Jan 8, 2009
    #23
  4. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t


    I was thinking Aldridge as well. With the kind of night he was having, a strong move to the basket should get a foul or a good chance at a basket.

    I haven't seen the reply, but I'm guessing Detroit was thinking the same thing because where was Prince? Shouldn't he have been guarding Outlaw? Was prince guarding Aldridge?

    Anyways, with a decoy in the game (Roy or Aldridge), Outlaw is a good go to guy for a needed basket. If the other team knows Outalw is going to take the shot . .. Outlaw is not the best choice.

    And if I may just state the obvious . . . after watching Prince last night, I would love to see him in a Blazer uni.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
    The_Lillard_King, Jan 8, 2009
    #24
  5. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    Absolutely. I was going to be pissed if they waited until the last few seconds.
     
    Pinwheel1, Jan 8, 2009
    #25
  6. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    I was going to say this. Travis did the right thing.
     
    MrJayremmie, Jan 8, 2009
    #26
  7. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    First, this post wasn't a "Basketball IQ" criticism of Outlaw. I could fill a forum with those posts, but that wasn't the intent of my last one. I wanted to know if that was Nate's call, or Travis's call to shoot with 9 seconds left. I'm totally willing to give one of them the BOD. Maybe Nate told Travis to, and he did it (good for him). Maybe Nate said milk the clock down, and Travis didn't. Whatever.

    The point is this: I agree that you give yourself multiple chances. 10 seconds is much too long in my book. And if we were going for the "multiple chances", where was the offensive rebounding? I'll have to go back and freeze-frame when I get home, but I could not see a single Blazer in the picture in position to get the board if Travis missed. There are multiple potential reasons for this: one is that Nate told them Travis was taking a shot as soon as he could get one and they didn't think he'd miss it. (Unlikely, since as someone pointed out Travis is generally 42% on his jumpers). Or they heard that and didn't get position for the rebound, out of laziness, DET effectiveness, whatever (this position strengthened by the fact that we were -12 in rebounds up until that point). It's possible that no one was expecting a shot with 10 seconds left that left 8.2 to go when it went through, so they weren't in position. I have no idea, which is why I posed the question. Instead of discussion about it (to PapaG's point, I TOTALLY CONCUR that he should have shot later, I'll stand by that) I get people saying "Travis did the right thing", "It's Coaching 101", "It was a smart play call, and Outlaw took the shot early like he should have."

    I see that I won't get real discussion about Nate or Travis, since I'm supposedly biased against both and many in here are biased for them, so it just becomes emotional.

    So for the instructors of Coaching 101, what's the limit? I think 10 seconds is too much. Obviously many of you don't. So what's the threshold? If he could have taken it with 15 seconds left do you tell him to? 20? Leave an entire 24? What's your number for being able to get a "multiple chance"? Can we talk about this without it deteriorating into name-calling and stuff?.

    EDIT: And if you're a member of the "shoot as quickly as possible" club, can you give reasons why you'd want to give AI and Prince a chance with that much time left? I'm not an NBA coach, but I would think that I want the last shot in that scenario. Make or miss, I don't want to put the game in the hands of their offense against my defense, since we've seen multiple losses in the last 18 months when we do that and a few more "lucky break" misses by shooters who normally make them (and AI's shot would be a decent example of that).
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
    BrianFromWA, Jan 8, 2009
    #27
  8. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    There is no threshold. When you're trailing, you are simply not playing for last shot or concerned at all with how much chance the other team will have. You take the first good shot you can get. If the first shot hits, you depend on being able to play defense for one (probably shortened) possession to preserve the lead. In the more likely scenario that the shot misses, you want as much time left on the clock to get the ball back (whether by rebound, steal or foul) and get another good shot attempt.

    The paramount issue, when behind, is giving yourself the best chance to erase the deficit before time expires, not trying to limit the other team's chance to score after you've erased the deficit. It's nice if they don't get a chance, but you can't try to design that because it will come at the expense of the top priority...maximizing your chances of scoring and erasing the deficit.

    The earliest point that Outlaw believed he had a shot that he had a good chance of hitting was when he should have shot. If, by some defensive breakdown, he could have gotten a layup the moment it was inbounded, he should have taken it. Even if that left plenty of time for Detroit.
     
    Minstrel, Jan 8, 2009
    #28
  9. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    Get the lead first. Worry about losing the game later.

    It's really that simple to me.

    Ed O.
     
    Ed O, Jan 8, 2009
    #29
  10. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    "EDIT: And if you're a member of the "shoot as quickly as possible" club, can you give reasons why you'd want to give AI and Prince a chance with that much time left? I'm not an NBA coach, but I would think that I want the last shot in that scenario. Make or miss, I don't want to put the game in the hands of their offense against my defense, since we've seen multiple losses in the last 18 months when we do that and a few more "lucky break" misses by shooters who normally make them (and AI's shot would be a decent example of that)"

    If you take the first "good shot" and make it, they will do the same. You still will probably have time for another possession. (2 seconds is an enternity)
    However if you miss the shot and they rebound, then you foul and you still have plenty of time to tie with a three. Why wait too long and take a chance for someone coming over and tripple teaming you and never getting a shot off? Shooting quick has better odds.
     
    Pinwheel1, Jan 8, 2009
    #30
  11. bigbailes

    bigbailes Well-Known Member

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    i find it hard to believe TO was thinking about getting it off with that much time left. he's a reaction type of player, to me he saw the lane and took it. nothing about TO's game says thinking man to me. glad he made it, and AI was off.
     
    bigbailes, Jan 8, 2009
    #31
  12. bigbailes

    bigbailes Well-Known Member

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    so what do you think about the strategy that Detroit should foul if up three with around 2 seconds to go?
     
    bigbailes, Jan 8, 2009
    #32
  13. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    oh most definitely

    STOMP
     
    STOMP, Jan 8, 2009
    #33
  14. julius

    julius Living on the air in Cincinnati... Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    "Are you with me Camera guy?" and "You're going to love my nuts" are the two best things ever uttered on TV, thanks to the Slam-Chop guy.

    [video=youtube;eft5bUDNqe4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eft5bUDNqe4[/video]

    best salesman ever...
     
    julius, Jan 8, 2009
    #34
  15. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    Rudy had his chance. He had a game tying three against Utah and he missed it.
     
    KingSpeed, Jan 9, 2009
    #35
  16. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

    I disagree. Last year, against Atlanta, the score was tied and so Travis milked the entire clock before hitting the game winner. He knew what he was doing then and he knew what he was doing last night.

    As for LMA, he had gone cold in those final minutes. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a problem to going with LMA who hit a game winning shot last season on one of my road trips. Milwaukee, I think? Maybe Minnesota? Baseline jumper. But like I said, since LMA was cold, going to TO was the obvious choice for me last night. He'd done it before many times and he did it again.

    That picture of Travis taking the last show is awesome, by the way. He is soo high up. Amazing.
     
    KingSpeed, Jan 9, 2009
    #36
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