Vecsey: Reinsdorf considering firing Paxson

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by MikeDC, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    I think that's what he means, anyway. He appears to be trying to be alliterative and combining "vanish" with "vaporized" (the impending fate of Vinnie) but he ends up saying Reinsdorf may soon varnish GM John Paxson.

    Which doesn't make too much sense :ghoti:

    Anyway, here's the quote.

     
  2. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    Sam Smith already refuted the Paxson part through emails to his readers.

    If we lose to Minnesota, the Clippers, and Sacramento though, that should probably be enough to get Vinny canned.
     
  3. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Well if Sam Smith refuted it, it must be wrong :)
     
  4. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    I just can't see Paxson getting fired, given how much of Reinsdorf's hands are in the mess.

    Reinsdorf is the one who initiated talks with Ben Wallace. I don't really have any qualms with this, because given the time, stealing Wallace from the Pistons was a good strategic move. Reinsdorf's hands are all over the Tyson Chandler for PJ Brown trade.

    But even with that, the Wallace trade looked good. We were one of the top teams in the East. The problem is that we never trade P.J. Brown's expiring contract in a consolidation trade, to get us that power forward piece. If we were to make that trade, we might have had enough to get into the finals and win it all. We created a small championship window, but didn't follow through by trading P.J. Brown.

    Then when the Grizzlies were ready to trade Pau Gasol, Reinsdorf wasn't willing to do a sign and trade with P.J. Brown because it would have put us into the luxury tax, leaving us with an unattractive package to the Grizzlies, because of Nocioni's long term contract that was used to make salaries matched.

    Then with the extensions, Paxson was pretty much thrown out of the room. Reinsdorf overpaid Deng (where were the bidders?), while lowballing Gordon, while not letting Gordon sign a very good contract for the Bulls, just because an artificial deadline had passed. It's hard to believe that Paxson would be the one to say, "No, you missed your deadline." Paxson would have jumped at signing Gordon once he agreed for that. Paxson was probably misled by Reinsdorf, as Paxson said at the Deng press conference that he hoped to be sitting up there with Ben shortly.

    Then there is the coaching search. John Paxson picks Mike D'Antoni, a coach who just came from one of the best teams in the West over the past few years, innovator of 7 seconds or less. Jerry Reinsdorf scared D'Antoni off by saying that the team might not retain Gordon, and on top of that, Reinsdorf commented that he didn't think D'Antoni was worth what the Knicks paid. Choice two, Doug Collins. It was reported as a done deal. He wouldn't have been a great coach, but a good coach for a few years as the team develops. Much better than Del Negro. That gets killed by Reinsdorf to preserve the friendship. So what is Paxson left to do? He obviously doesn't have the ownership backing to sign a big name like Avery Johnson or Jeff Van Gundy, as there wouldn't be the financial commitment to it. So he is regulated to either signing a coach who failed before in the NBA (Dwane Casey, etc.) or signing a first time coach, who will be the lowest paid coach in the league. New coach was the obvious route. He brings in a bunch of coaches, and Vinny bullshits him about how he will turn the Bulls into Phoenix with a defense.

    And here we are. I think most of the Bulls problems are traced to Reinsdorf, not Paxson. I think if Paxson had the backing of an owner like Paul Allen or Dolan, we would be seeing a very good Bulls team out there.
     
  5. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Even if everything you said were true (and I don't think it is), look at it from Reinsdorf's perspective. He's the guy who makes the decisions, and you can pretty much be assured he's going to agree with that take on things. He's going to look at things completely differently.

    He was clearly POed about how the D'Antoni thing went down and clearly thinks D'antoni is a douche. Do you think it inspires confidence in Paxson (to Jerry) that D'Antoni came with Paxson's recommendation to hire?

    Obviously not. That's a strike against Paxson, if it's anything at all in Reinsdorf's book.

    Likewise, the thing with Collins. Collins contacted Reinsdorf directly. He didn't go through Paxson. That made, if anything, the delay and eventual falling apart sensible since no GM could be expected to be happy with having the coaching decision made over his head.

    But from Reinsdorf's perspective, that is, again, a strike against Paxson if Pax got all up tight about chain of command issues after he and Collins talked.

    So that leaves Vinnie... and that's another strike against Pax, pretty obviously.

    Three strikes and you're out.

    Especially when the first two strikes reek of disagreeing with your boss.
     
  6. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you hit it out of the park with most of your post. Reinsdorf has had his hands all over most of the failings in the last three or four years. Has also been behind the successes? We have no way of knowing. If Reinsdorf isn't trapped in an echo chamber, and he very well may be, he'll see that when he's forced Paxson into situations it hasn't worked out well. Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if another franchise gave Paxson a shot if he failed here in Chicago . . . I'm not sure that this mess is his doing, though he certainly hasn't taken the steps necessary to clean it up.
     
  7. MJordan

    MJordan JBB JustBBall Member

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    Reinsdorf should fire himself. I think he is the prime reason the Bulls miss out on all the good stuff.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't see much in the papers about Reinsdorf at all. As if he's just the owner and isn't involved in much of anything to do with the operations. Rarely, he's gotten involved, like when he and Pax flew to California to get Chandler signed, but you'd expect him to be available for that sort of thing if Pax asked.

    What makes you think JR is more involved?
     
  9. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    I just don't see the evidence for a lot of this. But at the end of the day, Reinsdorf is the owner, and if he's got an opinion, part of the job of being the GM is to sway that opinion in the proper direction. He's not going anywhere, so if you're the GM, you better either get his ear or shut up and get on the same page.

    To put it simply:
    Paxson by himself might have delivered D'Antoni.
    Reinsdorf by himself might have delivered Collins.
    Put Paxson and Reinsdorf together and it delivered Vinnie Del Negro.

    D'Antoni would be my first preference, but I'd much prefer Collins to Vinnie Del Negro.

    More subtley, I suspect Collins, at this point, very well might be GM material. If a GM is going to have any success with a potentially meddling owner, it's going to be a guy who has the stature, experience, and relationship to voice his own opinion to that owner. I think it's fairly evident from the events of last summer that Paxson does not have that, at least any more. But in those respects, Collins is the ideal GM candidate.

    Similarly, Jerry Colangelo, who's friends with Reinsdorf, a former owner himself, and who I believe, voiced some willingness to be continue to be involved in the NBA despite selling the Suns.

    In short, there are a couple guys Reinsdorf could turn to who have the right combination of being "made NBA men" and having his confidence. That's where I'd look if I wantted to get this team going in a unified direction.
     
  10. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    I think if it was Reinsdorf alone, we would have ended up with Pete Myers or Stacey King as the coach.

    Paxson rubber stamped Doug Collins, but Reinsdorf didn't want to hire Collins because it would ruin the friendship.
     
  11. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Stacey King is probably destined to be the next GM, since he's got the job Pax had prior to becoming GM :)

    But seriously, there's no evidence to suggest Paxson gave his approval to hiring Collins, or even if he did, it was more than grudging. No GM in his right mind would want to hire a coach who put his hat in the ring by going directly to the owner.

    And no owner in his right mind would hire a coach that was getting only grudging approval from his GM.

    So that seems a much easier explanation to me.
     
  12. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    What about Avery Johnson? They never set up a formal interview with him. Do you think that was Paxson's doing? Or was it Reinsdorf saying no way, he costs too much. (The Bulls would have had to pay him a ton to make it more worthwhile than doing broadcasting while collecting Cuban's checks). Although Johnson showed a lot of interest, so maybe he would have signed for rest, but still would be a hefty sum. (Coach's with the highest win percentage in NBA history cost a pretty penny).

    Hopefully this time around (assuming Del Negro is fired, which he will be, he is doing worse than Jim Boylan did in his first 45 games) the Bulls will take veteran head coaches, like Avery Johnson, more seriously.
     
  13. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    I think it had to be disinterest on the part of Paxson. Reinsdorf at least considered D'Antoni, who was expensive.

    Reinsdorf (and Paxson's) track record suggests they'll pay guys if they decide to. I don't think Reinsdorf is cheap in the sense you're saying here and lots of people commonly say. It's not a matter of cheapness, it's a matter of approach and philosophy.

    Reinsdorf's track record suggests why Avery wasn't given a sniff. There's no way in hell he's going to hire someone who's an outsider who actively promotes himself for the job. Simple as that, and it doesn't have anything to do with money.
     
  14. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    I think Neil Funk will get the nod.

    Could you imagine this trade.

    The Chicago Bulls trade Derrick Rose for Ben Wallace.

    "Sorry Bulls fans, I was mistaken. I thought I saw Lebron James' name on the trade contract, but it was actually Ben Wallace."
     
  15. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    I agree. Reinsdorf has shown he'll pay for quality, the problem is there are so few difference makers in the nba to begin with, and they so rarely become available. That's why I have a hard time blaming anybody. There's nobody to get, and the guys the bulls have are all too young or mediocre. There's really nothing you can do to improve the team right now.
     
  16. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    It's certainly true that there are few real game changers in the NBA, but I don't think the fact that it's hard to hit a grand slam excuses the variety of really crummy decisions and general aimlessness of this team. Not so much for making dramatic improvements right now, but for fielding a team that can accomplish something down the road.

    And by accomplish something, I don't mean get bounced in the second round of the playoffs sort of sense.
     
  17. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    I really don't see what they could do other than acquire promising young players and hope they pan out and sign free agents. They signed the biggest free agent they could, and it takes time to develop players. Skiles was a great coach, but the players eventually tuned him out. What else is there? Pax offered the kitchen sink for KG and Reinsdorf wouldn't mortgage the team for Gasol.
     
  18. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Vescey makes it clear he is reporting information from Chicago reporters and I doubt he is dropping a scoop that a Chicago reporter left unreported. The only hint of a breath of an innuendo that I've recently read in the chicago papers about VND maybe possibly should be might be could be don't ya think it should be so considered for a quick hook is some pure speculation from the notoriously unreliable Rosenblog.

    So, I wouldn't put a whole lot of weight on this Peter the Great blurb.
     

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