<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 2 2006, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wait...isn't Lamar Odom a good player? Oh yeah that's right, he never gets the ball because Kobe is always jacking fade-away 3's.</div>"I put Kobe in a bind out there," Odom said. "He has to score 40 points just for us to win. I don't blame him for shooting 40 shots some nights. We should be embarrassed as a team. I know I am."- Lamar Odom, after last night's loss vs. PortlandKobe has been in unselfish mode now since the All-Star break...and since then, we're 3-3...and only one of those six games was against a playoff team. Kobe had five assists (leading the Lakers) last night. Against Orlando, he had eight assists. Against Boston...six assists. The Clippers...eight assists. Ten assists against the Kings (leading passer in the game) and finally, only four against the Blazers right after the break. That's 6.8 assists per game since the break...and the Lakers are .500 in those games...against garbage teams (minus the Clippers).<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 2 2006, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He had Caron Butler too last year. 2 solid players and yet he wasn't able to make the playoffs. If you are a great player then you should be able to make the playoffs no matter what your team looks like, and the Lakers weren't bad last year.</div>Wasn't LeBron great last season? Isn't Garnett great this year...and last? He had won the MVP the previous year, but didn't make the playoffs last season?Sure, the Lakers weren't bad last season...until their coach left. They were 6th seed in the Western Conference. Rudy T left, Hamblen came in, and the Lakers adopted the triangle midseason (first mistake). Kobe ends up being hurt, which ruins that for a while...and after Kobe returns, Odom soon goes down for the rest of the season...and Hamblen and the Lakers go 10-29 after a 24-19 start.
why is this even a topic? kobe's record without shaq is under .500. how would that make him the best ever. if you're the best ever you should at least have an above .500 record. until he does that the answer is no. it won't happen actually haha. mj is better and kobe will never touch his greatness.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Mar 2 2006, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>why is this even a topic? kobe's record without shaq is under .500. how would that make him the best ever. if you're the best ever you should at least have an above .500 record. until he does that the answer is no. it won't happen actually haha. mj is better and kobe will never touch his greatness.</div>Would you like to place a bet on that (in regards to being over .500 by the end of the season)? I have a great Marbury sig you can wear that I let another Knicks fan post with last season. He predicted the playoffs, and I predicted a downfall...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 2 2006, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Would you like to place a bet on that (in regards to being over .500 by the end of the season)? I have a great Marbury sig you can wear that I let another Knicks fan post with last season. He predicted the playoffs, and I predicted a downfall...</div>what was the lakers record last year? 33-49. combine this year with that year it's under .500. let's gamble.
watch espn classic... they show some old games... not a problem for me i saw a lot but u wont see many of the shitty teams that had good players play. MJ is the great Since 85' I even have the shirt, but yet im no jordan fan. Kobe is a top 10. Id pick D.Rob at his best over him. A lot of teams usually win championships cause they have a very dominant type of Center. In jordans case... he was dominant. Kobes case?!?! wheres the rings wit out shaq
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Mar 2 2006, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>what was the lakers record last year? 33-49. combine this year with that year it's under .500. let's gamble.</div>No, I said this season's record. They are 29-30 right now. I guarantee they will finish .500 or better.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (S_Guard @ Mar 2 2006, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>A lot of teams usually win championships cause they have a very dominant type of Center. In jordans case... he was dominant. Kobes case?!?! wheres the rings wit out shaq</div>When Jordan retired for the first time, Scottie Pippen and the Bulls won 55 games and lost in the Eastern Conference Finals. No Jordan.What's the largest amount of games Shaq has won without Kobe? That answer is 59...only four away from Pippen's total without MJ...and by the way, Shaq did it with Wade.If it took having Shaq for Kobe to win three rings, why not go ahead and say it took having Pippen for Jordan to win them as well? As far as I know, Jordan didn't win anything without Scottie...just as much as you can say that Kobe didn't without O'Neal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 2 2006, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wait...isn't Lamar Odom a good player? Oh yeah that's right, he never gets the ball because Kobe is always jacking fade-away 3's. He had Caron Butler too last year. 2 solid players and yet he wasn't able to make the playoffs. If you are a great player then you should be able to make the playoffs no matter what your team looks like, and the Lakers weren't bad last year.</div>Lamar Odom is still getting used to Phil's triangle offense, and until Odom gets it down, the Lakers will not be to succesfull. I agree with what Phil said, in that it will take him three seasons to get this team back to there glory days. Year one, this year, everyone is just being exposed to the offense so you can't expect much from them. I think next year all the guys will be much more comfortable in the offense, and be much more productive.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 2 2006, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, I said this season's record. They are 29-30 right now. I guarantee they will finish .500 or better.When Jordan retired for the first time, Scottie Pippen and the Bulls won 55 games and lost in the Eastern Conference Finals. No Jordan.What's the largest amount of games Shaq has won without Kobe? That answer is 59...only four away from Pippen's total without MJ...and by the way, Shaq did it with Wade.If it took having Shaq for Kobe to win three rings, why not go ahead and say it took having Pippen for Jordan to win them as well? As far as I know, Jordan didn't win anything without Scottie...just as much as you can say that Kobe didn't without O'Neal.</div>he wasn't just on the lakers and heat. he was on the magic and made it to the finals in only his 3rd season in 1995. shaq can win without kobe. kobe can't without shaq.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Mar 2 2006, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>he wasn't just on the lakers and heat. he was on the magic and made it to the finals in only his 3rd season in 1995. shaq can win without kobe. kobe can't without shaq.</div>At the most in Orlando, Shaq won 57 games...and it was with Penny.My point was...Scottie Pippen won 55 without Michael Jordan. If Shaq can only win two more games than Pippen, then why would anyone say that Jordan did it mostly on his own? It looks to me as if Jordan had almost as much help as Kobe did.Criticize Kobe, but don't do it without taking a stab at the greatest player of all-time, Michael Jordan, as well. Similar situations, and it can't be avoided.FYI - Shaq hasn't won a ring without Kobe, so I wouldn't call him as dominant as everyone believes. It works both ways...and Kobe still has years left in him, where Shaq is almost done.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 2 2006, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>At the most in Orlando, Shaq won 57 games...and it was with Penny.My point was...Scottie Pippen won 55 without Michael Jordan. If Shaq can only win two more games than Pippen, then why would anyone say that Jordan did it mostly on his own? It looks to me as if Jordan had almost as much help as Kobe did.Criticize Kobe, but don't do it without taking a stab at the greatest player of all-time, Michael Jordan, as well. Similar situations, and it can't be avoided.FYI - Shaq hasn't won a ring without Kobe, so I wouldn't call him as dominant as everyone believes. It works both ways...and Kobe still has years left in him, where Shaq is almost done.</div>shaq went to the finals and scottie didn't. this isn't about them anyway. kobe won't be the best ever. if anyone it'll be lebron but as great as he is i don't think he will or anyone else for that matter.
Shaq could've gone to the Finals last year, but he and Dwyane both got injured in the same series. Who knows? Miami could've beaten SA.And okay, Shaq hasn't won any championships w/o Kobe, but Kobe hasn't even been to the playoffs w/o Shaq.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Mar 2 2006, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>shaq went to the finals and scottie didn't. this isn't about them anyway. kobe won't be the best ever. if anyone it'll be lebron but as great as he is i don't think he will or anyone else for that matter.</div>You keep saying, "This isn't about them anyway," but you did bring up Shaq.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Mar 2 2006, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq could've gone to the Finals last year, but he and Dwyane both got injured in the same series. Who knows? Miami could've beaten SA.And okay, Shaq hasn't won any championships w/o Kobe, but Kobe hasn't even been to the playoffs w/o Shaq.</div>Could've? What would that prove, that the Heat are loaded? That's all that it tells me. It's a fact that O'Neal has made the playoffs every single year he has had a star guard on his team. His rookie season, he missed the playoffs. After that, he's been alongside Penny, Kobe and Wade. Why does Kobe get judged when he doesn't have a star? If you believe Odom is a star, you might as well leave the thread...because Odom is pathetic when he's not the first option, and not even an All-Star when he was the Heat's primary scorer.Kobe hasn't even had two years under his belt without Shaq, so I wouldn't judge him just yet.Here's how it is: if Kobe found him an All-Star to come to Los Angeles and play in a Lakers uniform, all of you would just say, "Well...it's all because of [insert name here] that Kobe won another ring."However, if Shaq uses Wade, you say, "Well...I've been brainwashed by the media that Shaq is the greatest, and he won a ring without Kobe, and that makes Kobe garbage."It's called hate. I've read it over and over and over again. Kobe Bryant has a commercial for it. No...correction: Nike has one for it in regards to Kobe and his game. You judge Kobe within a season or two without Shaq, but you don't notice that Shaq only improved the Lakers by 3 wins when he first arrived, and Kobe wasn't even a starter. You say that Kobe isn't even the best player in the game because of how the Lakers are doing, yet you rank Garnett as the top player (or second best) even though his Wolves completely suck.Hypocrites do this exact same thing. No worries.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Mar 2 2006, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you can't judge Kobe, then you can't judge Shaq. end of story.</div>Read...<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal)</div><div class='quotemain'>Here's how it is: if Kobe found him an All-Star to come to Los Angeles and play in a Lakers uniform, all of you would just say, "Well...it's all because of [insert name here] that Kobe won another ring."However, if Shaq uses Wade, you say, "Well...I've been brainwashed by the media that Shaq is the greatest, and he won a ring without Kobe, and that makes Kobe garbage."It's called hate. I've read it over and over and over again. Kobe Bryant has a commercial for it. No...correction: Nike has one for it in regards to Kobe and his game. You judge Kobe within a season or two without Shaq, but you don't notice that Shaq only improved the Lakers by 3 wins when he first arrived, and Kobe wasn't even a starter. You say that Kobe isn't even the best player in the game because of how the Lakers are doing, yet you rank Garnett as the top player (or second best) even though his Wolves completely suck.Hypocrites do this exact same thing. No worries.</div>You are the one judging Kobe prematurely. I'm judging Shaq in response to what you guys are saying...don't get it twisted.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 2 2006, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Read...You are the one judging Kobe prematurely. I'm judging Shaq in response to what you guys are saying...don't get it twisted.</div>no matter what we say you're still gonna disagree cuz you're obsessed with the guy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Mar 2 2006, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>no matter what we say you're still gonna disagree cuz you're obsessed with the guy.</div>No matter what I say, you're still gonna disagree because you hate the guy.What's the difference? You did admit that you hate him.Point is, take a look in the mirror...I bashed Marbury to purposely see if you would get a rise out of it, and you did. Remember? Now you post this?As I said just a bit ago...it's all characteristics of a hypocrite NBA fan. For you guys, people either see it your way, or don't see it at all...and the difference between me thinking that...and you thinking that...is that you admit you hate the man. Most non-Laker fans hate Laker fans. If you don't believe that, ask around.Anything and everything you can possibly pull out of your sleeve, you do it...just to prove that Kobe Bryant is a failure on the court, and you love to mention the same off-court (even if you do it off these forums). I feel bad for people like that. At least the Raptors fans were praising Bryant for his 81-point game, where all the rivals (Kings, Celtics, etc) were bashing him for staying in...and, just as a true hypocrite, were doing the same when he left the Mavs game with 62 in the third.Haha, there's nowhere to go. Either you hate him or you love the guy. The commercial continues to hold true.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 2 2006, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>At least the Raptors fans were praising Bryant for his 81-point game, where all the rivals (Kings, Celtics, etc) were bashing him for staying in...and, just as a true hypocrite, were doing the same when he left the Mavs game with 62 in the third.</div>this isn't because i hate him but how can the raptors fans praise that? the game was over in the third quarter. wayyyy over. phil is a douchebag. that was poor sportsmanship at it's finest.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Mar 3 2006, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>this isn't because i hate him but how can the raptors fans praise that? the game was over in the third quarter. wayyyy over. phil is a douchebag. that was poor sportsmanship at it's finest.</div>He did it because you guys were slashing at his throat when Kobe sat the fourth against the Mavs. All of you saw it as some sort of cocky statement. Then, when he left him in against the Raptors, you guys changed direction and threw out the same exact comments.And there were Raptors fans prasing it because it won't be done by anyone for a long time. Nobody 13-40 or so witnessed Wilt's 100...and the Knicks fans that did see it were amazed by it. Kobe is hated so much that even the second highest point total in a game wasn't good enough.Just in case you didn't know, Wilt and his teammates dropped 40+ in the first quarter, were already winning the game by a mile, and he played the entire game. Kobe's Lakers were down by 22 or so at the half, and Kobe had only 24 points at that point...and he dominated to win the game. Big difference, but you guys wouldn't realize that.
Kobes the best SG in the league right now but not the greatest ever.I like Kobe hes one of my favorite players but he cant touch Jordan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Peja16 @ Mar 3 2006, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobes the best SG in the league right now but not the greatest ever.I like Kobe hes one of my favorite players but he cant touch Jordan.</div>...and just to clarify, I never did say he was the best ever. I put Jordan and Magic over Kobe when it comes to guards, but by the end of his career, he has it in him to be right at the top with those two, if he's not already.If Kobe can grab another ring, I'll put him over Magic. However, I really doubt anyone in this lifetime will ever be as good as Michael Jordan.
