Do We Have to Make a Trade Now That We Have Monta?

This is a mantality that I never understood. There's such a thing as taking on too much too soon. Setting yourself up for failure. The only things these guys will learn if they make those moves are bad habits is how to lose. I like the core that you're talking about. I've been hard on Randolph, but if he's able to grow at a proper pace, I think he'd be a decent piece.

We're all dissapointed at the front offices move to sign Mags and SJax to those deals or picking up Crawford's deal either. But moving them for the sake of moving them is not the correct play. Dumping one of the young talent along with 1 or 2 of them for another frontcourt player is another story. But I don't think the young guys are strong enough, physically or mentally to try to play without the veterans around

 

Well, now we can maybe get G. Wallace for cheap.

 

I agree 100%. Although the young guys are probably more capable than the older vets at doing certain things, the vets know how to play because of their experience. Despite salary room issues, we do have a good veteran lineup compared to years passed and that is important to developing younger players a lot sooner. Even Jrich wish he had a guy that could mentor him, but he had to do it by himself which took him a lot longer to become better. The young guys have to grow based on learning from the top guys that have made a mark in the league. If your vets are good, the young guys learn, natural talent and team chemistry will fuel the rest. Plus, having a better than average coach helps, although it most likely only helps the guards. I cannot see a traditional big man being successful in Don Nelson's lineups unless it is at center. At power forward, forget about it. A guy like Boozer or Brand goes to center immediately under Nelson and the tallest small forward gets bumped to power forward. It's been Don's way for years.

 

Well, maybe you just didn't read my entire post. Because I never said to move them for the sake of moving them. I said to trade them for 2nd Tier guys like Shane Battier, Udonis Haslem, and Gerald Wallace, guys who can defend and rebound and don't need 20+ FG attempts each. Guys who will set a good example.

The point is that our current "vets" want to shoot every time they touch it and don't want to play any D. That's setting the young guys up for failure, IMO.

That money would be much better spent on "supporting cast" vets who can create a solid "nest" for the young guys. That's the whole point. Right now, our veteran leadership is sh!t. Jax is a knucklehead and Maggette+Craw are "I love me some me." Not one of the three passes well, or even tries to pass, or defends at all.

I think Monta/Beans are ready to be the #1 / #2 options on this team. That doesn't mean surround them with D Leaguers, though. That means use the 30 mils invested in Craxette to get some vets who lead by example, defend, and rebound. IMO.

Or, like you say, trade a prospect plus vet to get a frontcourt player. I'd do something like Wright/Maggette/filler to get Pao Gasol. Heck I'd do that to get Marc Gasol!

 

Ok...True. I just read moving vets for 2nd teir guys as trading for the sake of trading. After thinking about it a bit, I'd rather have guys like Battier that are vets that can show how to be tough, hustle, know how to play and won't demand too many minutes. I actually like that idea. (See, sometimes I'm not as stubborn as I might seem.)

Actually to all of you Nelly haters, I think he'd be happy with a roster of guys like that too. I think you guys just flipped my wishlist for the next phase of rebuilding

 

Good point there. Nelly seems to like players who know their strengths and weaknesses and don't make many mistakes. Guys who defend and rebound and most of all know the plays. That's probably why he would play Austin Croshere over Brandan Wright last year. And, it's probably why he plays Rob Kurz over Anthony Randolph. In both cases, Randolph and Wright have way more talent, but Kurz and Croshere stay within their limits and do their job.

Right now, I think Nellie lives with Craxette because frankly it's all he's got. But right now, we have like 8 different scoring options and no defending options. We don't need 8 different go-to guys. Let's trade Craxette for a supporting cast that will mentor the young guys instead of take away all their FG attempts.

Okay. So here are some names I've come up with that I think fit this bill of being good defenders, rebounders, and hustle players. A few extras, like Steve Blake, I added because I think they'd fit great in Nellie's system. I think every player on this list would fit well as a supporting member for Monta/Beans. I also picked these names (and avoided superstars) because I think it's reasonable to say that most of them could be traded for, given the right package.

Udonis Haslem
Shane Battier
Gerald Wallace
Joe Smith
Tayshaun Prince
Andres Nocioni
Brevin Knight
Andrei Kirilenko
Kirk Heinrich
Matt Harpring
Drew Gooden
Boris Diaw
Luol Deng
Corey Brewer
Steve Blake
Raja Bell
Trevor Ariza

and... Matt Barnes

Okay. Time to get out the trade machine and see if we can move Craxette to get some of these role players. Add a few defenders and rebounders, subtract a few volume shooters, give those shot attempts to Monta/Morrow/Belly/Beans, and IMO you get better basketball. And better development for the youngsters.

 

AlleyOop, I usually agree with you, but not the direction you're taking the Warriors. First, you're right Nelson likes guys who don't make many mistakes, but he wants guys who do the same things when under the gun in crunch time. Those are guys like Jax, Mags, and Crawford. Nelson isn't going to deal those guys unless it's for a stud like Amar'e who can play his system. Nellie is more likely to deal Wright, AR, and Marco than any of the aforementioned. Second, Nelson wants guys who can do more than one thing like handle the rock, shoot from outside, and be able to play out of position. He wants guys who spread the floor and stretch the defense. That way, he gets the mismatches. Yes, he cares about rebounding, but defense in the paint is an after thought.

There is no way I would want any second tier players for the vets we got now under Nelson. It's near rock solid under Nelson. The best we can hope for is that Nelson doesn't deal the younger players for an aging vet who he thinks is the final piece of the puzzle. If left unchecked, Nelson will throw caution to the wind and dump our future in a heartbeat.

 

Good points. Definitely food for thought. I guess I'm not really factoring in what Nellie would realistically do. But I'm trying to see the next 3 seasons or so, not the next 5 games like Nellie tries to do. I don't blame him, his job is to win games, not worry about the youth movement.

As far as clutch shots, though, I have two things: first, Monta can hit clutch shots. I'd rather him have the ball, going to the rack (once he's 100% healthy), than any of those "big 3" in Craxette. Second, I'm not so concerned right now with eeking out a few extra wins by getting "clutch" shots from Craxette. I'm concerned about the leadership and chemistry on this team, which IMO stinks. In 1-2 years time, It will be Monta, Beans, Randolph, Bellinelli -- those guys should be taking the clutch shots, anyway. Right now, IMO the team needs leaders who set a good example by playing team-ball. Get some vets to lead by example, and give the clutch shots to the future of the franchise. They may lose a few more games this year, but they'll have a head-start on learning how to make clutch shots.

I guess everything has to be tempered by the coach's philosophy, though. And you're right, he does like players who can do more than one thing. But theoretically, what about moving Craxette and getting something like:

Nocioni / Raja Bell / Tayshaun Prince

Matt Harpring / Joe Smith / Gerald Wallace

Brevin Knight / AK-47 / Shane Battier

Steve Blake / Udonis Haslem / Trevor Ariza

Kirk Heinrich / Luol Deng / Boris Diaw

Similar stats, similar contracts, worlds apart in terms of value to the team. I just put these together randomly, but IMO each package would be better for the overall team. With each package, you get guys who can do many different things in Nellie's system. You get guys who can defend and rebound. You get guys who, for the most part, play hard and play the right way. I can't think of anyone on this list who plays selfishly or who would outright be bad for chemistry.

Most importantly, though, you get guys who don't need to be the #1. You get guys who will, IMO, will set a solid foundation for the young guys to enjoy being a part of. Right now, I'd be nauseous to be in Morrow's shoes, standing wide-open for 9 minutes of game time without my three veteran "leaders" not once even looking in my direction with the ball.

I don't know. Maybe you're right that Nellie would rather trade Wright, AR and Marco. It's really hard to tell with him right now. And, who knows how involved he is in trade talks. But, right now, I think the future of the franchise is more important than Nellie. More important than Nellie ball. But I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

 

I like your thinking. It's like when Detroit had nothing but an underrated bunch of players but they won a championship and became all-stars because they played a brand of defense no nba team could defeat. Plus, they coordinated in the halfcourt, which is something that few teams can do reliably, especially without an inside offensive player to convert shots inside the paint. The Wallace's were not really inside players and Okur was never a great defensive player to push them over the top like a two good, athletic defensive big men could do.

What really fueled their offense was their ability to make runs based on their all-around defensive ability. They could grind it out, they could run and that made them deadly. You had Rip Hamilton who was considered not really an all-star, but he's got the best midrange game in the nba for a shooting guard. Then you had Chauncey Billups who was widely regarded as a combo guard, nothing like the hyped up players like Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, etc. Chauncey did the job better as a defensive man like a Gary Payton, he improved his playmaking skills, and developed qualities that you'd find in a guy like Sam Cassell (smarts, big shots and utilizing the midrange and post-up skills.)

It's like back when I made a case to get Paul Pierce for Jrich when Pierce was considered at low value. I remember some didn't like it because of the state of what the Celtics were in. Sure Pierce was 3 years older and was on a really, really bad Celtics team, but Pierce does all the things a power guard should really do. He does the Corey Maggette thing by attacking the rim, but he's more unselfish and he plays DEFENSE. That's all something that Jrich nor Maggette could never do is move their feet and get their hands up. Plus, I believe Pierce to be an improved version of an up and down player like Sjax who delivers most in the 4th quarter. Pierce does other things besides scoring which is why I like him more than any other power guard type swingman. We've got to invest in guys that play D, and they need to show that they are naturally gifted about playing either halfcourt or open court ball. Every finals team has been able to do it, whether they had Shaqs or Duncans or not. Even Ray Allen and Derek Fisher played defense...

 

I'm okay with keeping the young guys and giving them shot attempts even if they are limited to being role players. I can see Morrow coming in to spell someone at SG and Marco playing some backup point. I would like to see some semblance of interior D and low post play with Brandan Wright, but the chances of that are almost nil. What drives me nutz is Nelson does not play big men regularly or consistently. It seems he just wants them to perform limited but multiple functions well. How can any rookie develop THEIR game in his system? I get the feeling the assistant coaches are the ones doing the tutoring and then the players are not rewarded for their hard work with PT.

Since we're back to acquiring a real PG, I'm okay with Steve Blake. I would add Ramon Sessions and Russell Westbrook as other young PG targets for the Warriors.

EDIT: I forgot to add Raymond Felton who's playing out of his skull right now.

 

Looks like Randolph's fired his agent: