SF solution: Vince Carter?

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Iwatas

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As I posted in another thread...

Vince Carter is 32 years old, and makes $15 million a year, and for the next 4. The Nets have to consider him a heck of a long-term liability. They are not going to make the playoffs, and he is not going up in value.

Are they cheap enough to swap Raef + Trout for Vince? The deal works.
http://tinyurl.com/arq53t . It gives them back a young, athletic, exciting (though often boneheaded) Trout, and saves them heap big money.

I would *definitely* be stoked with this deal.

I like Trout, but the dude still has no IQ, and it hurts. Vince could be the guy who leads at the SF role while Batum/Web grow up. It would make us contenders THIS YEAR.

What do others think?

iWatas
 
If he's good for another four years, I say do it. He seems healthy, and he brings the kind of experience and extra scoring punch that we need. I was hoping to be able to go after Kobe this offseason, but now that the Miles thing didn't work out, I'm thinking that's a big no-go.
 
I have a problem with committing $15 million/per for four more years to a guy who just turned 32 and who has a lot of miles on his legs. When Carter's game starts to deteriorate, I think it will be in a rather rapid fashion. That's a lot of $$$ to tie up in the guy. In terms of his current game, he'd be a great fit, but the contract implications and the need to re-sign so many good players over the next 2-3 years would make me pass on the deal.
 
PapaG said:
I have a problem with committing $15 million/per for four more years to a guy who just turned 32 and who has a lot of miles on his legs. When Carter's game starts to deteriorate, I think it will be in a rather rapid fashion. That's a lot of $$$ to tie up in the guy. In terms of his current game, he'd be a great fit, but the contract implications and the need to re-sign so many good players over the next 2-3 years would make me pass on the deal.
Click to expand...

But we're going to be way over the cap in 2010 anyway. What's another 15 million to PA? Unless you think there's someone we can get this offseason as a free agent, I don't see the point in letting RLEC go to waste. Adding Carter could be the punch we need this season and maybe next. At least give guys like Batum a little bit more time to develop.

The Milwaukee Bucks paired up an aging Oscar Robertson with a young Lew Alcindor and won a championship. I believe he retired that summer. I'm just wondering if we added some aging star to this core, could it put us over the top?
 
I'm not a big VC fan either. The guy's good days are long gone, and the franchise has always talked about if they were to trade, it'd have to be a guy that fits the timeframe, ie a 26-28 year old.

I think he'd command the ball way too much over Roy, LMA and Greg, he doesn't play great D, and wouldn't seem to fit in with our chemistry. And with that contract, yuck. And he coasts too much in and out of games.
 
I would just like to know what you folks are expecting to get out of a trade, especially a trade where no player of exceptional value is sent out, and you get a VC quality player in return. Yes he gets paid a lot over the next few years. But in this league, good players get paid, and those that aren't don't. Yes he might not be as good in the latter years of his contract. Thats the way it is in the NBA as players get older.

But my guess is, VC 3 years from now is still better than any of the small forwards we have now. That would be what I call an upgrade.
 
hasoos said:
I would just like to know what you folks are expecting to get out of a trade, especially a trade where no player of exceptional value is sent out, and you get a VC quality player in return. Yes he gets paid a lot over the next few years. But in this league, good players get paid, and those that aren't don't. Yes he might not be as good in the latter years of his contract. Thats the way it is in the NBA as players get older.

But my guess is, VC 3 years from now is still better than any of the small forwards we have now. That would be what I call an upgrade.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and who cares about the money?
 
I think VC is precisely the kind of aging star this team could use.

VC is on the downside of his career, but posting all-star numbers. With less wear and tear on his body, he'll be able to play for 3-4 more years for sure, and he has a *lot* of skills. His veteran savvy would be a huge asset, and he is not a player who is going to complain about playing for a winning team, or playing 20-24 minutes a game instead of 45.

I really think the team could contend this year if he was a Blazer instead of Travis. He is an undeniable offensive threat who passes the ball well, and makes his teammates better.

Where is the gaping hole in:

Blake
Roy
Vince
LMA
Oden

?

And with our bench, this team could absolutely devastate opponents.

iWatas
 
Iwatas said:
I think VC is precisely the kind of aging star this team could use.

VC is on the downside of his career, but posting all-star numbers. With less wear and tear on his body, he'll be able to play for 3-4 more years for sure, and he has a *lot* of skills. His veteran savvy would be a huge asset, and he is not a player who is going to complain about playing for a winning team, or playing 20-24 minutes a game instead of 45.

I really think the team could contend this year if he was a Blazer instead of Travis. He is an undeniable offensive threat who passes the ball well, and makes his teammates better.

Where is the gaping hole in:

Blake
Roy
Vince
LMA
Oden

?

And with our bench, this team could absolutely devastate opponents.

iWatas
Click to expand...

After you replace Blake with Bayless, there is no hole. :pimp::ghoti:
 
hasoos said:
But my guess is, VC 3 years from now is still better than any of the small forwards we have now. That would be what I call an upgrade.
Click to expand...

I hope Batum will be better (esp. for his defense). But there is no question that Vince would be a huge upgrade at the SF spot.

iWatas
 
Would Vince suddenly accept a role where he isn't the first, second or maybe third option sometimes? That's my big question since he's been 'the man' his entire career.
 
I'd love to add VC to this team... if the price is right. And by right I mean "low", like RLEC and draft pick(s).

Ed O.
 
alex42083 said:
Would Vince suddenly accept a role where he isn't the first, second or maybe third option sometimes? That's my big question since he's been 'the man' his entire career.
Click to expand...

He's definitely the second option in New Jersey now behind Harris and seems to have accepted it just fine ... as for falling to 3rd (4th) it's hard to say if he'd be fine with it -- and saying yes or no would be pure speculation on anybody's part.
 
Nikolokolus said:
He's definitely the second option in New Jersey now behind Harris and seems to have accepted it just fine ... as for falling to 3rd (4th) it's hard to say if he'd be fine with it -- and saying yes or no would be pure speculation on anybody's part.
Click to expand...

You would hope that he would realize that he's getting older and this would be his best shot at winning a title.
 
Nikolokolus said:
He's definitely the second option in New Jersey now behind Harris and seems to have accepted it just fine ... as for falling to 3rd (4th) it's hard to say if he'd be fine with it -- and saying yes or no would be pure speculation on anybody's part.
Click to expand...


I don't think there would be any problem with it, he would be starting, and that is probably what would be important. Vince hasn't been a top tier guy for a few years now, and I am sure he knows it. He is starting to get to the point where he just wants to win a ring, and that will be his motivation factor.
 
vc would make us contenders this year. he is a top player still, and his contract is only guaranteed for 2 more years after this one. he is worth the money, and would instantly shore up our weakest position.

if this is doable, we need to do it, period.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You would hope that he would realize that he's getting older and this would be his best shot at winning a title.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, that would be the hope ... but I'm sure you would know better than anybody that stars sometimes have egos, and even when the skills fade that "need" to be the man can be tough to overcome ... not to say that this is the case with Carter, it's just something that makes me wonder, but wouldn't prevent me from pulling the trigger on a deal to get him.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
But we're going to be way over the cap in 2010 anyway. What's another 15 million to PA? Unless you think there's someone we can get this offseason as a free agent, I don't see the point in letting RLEC go to waste. Adding Carter could be the punch we need this season and maybe next. At least give guys like Batum a little bit more time to develop.

The Milwaukee Bucks paired up an aging Oscar Robertson with a young Lew Alcindor and won a championship. I believe he retired that summer. I'm just wondering if we added some aging star to this core, could it put us over the top?
Click to expand...

It's not necessarily 2010 I'm concerned about with Carter, although even then his game may be rapidly declining. It's 2011 and 2012, when I view him to be not worth that contract, yet his contract will become an obstacle to improve his position. It would be a tough call for me, though at the end I'd decline if I were KP.

It has nothing to do with VC's game right now, though. He'd be a huge upgrade even for this year and may be the reason for a series win or even two in the play-offs.
 
drexlersdad said:
vc would make us contenders this year. he is a top player still, and his contract is only guaranteed for 2 more years after this one. he is worth the money, and would instantly shore up our weakest position.

if this is doable, we need to do it, period.
Click to expand...


Really? I thought he had 4 years left since it was mentioned earlier in the thread. If not, pull the trigger NOW! :ghoti:
 
He doesn't help us defend against Kobe or LeBron much better, but at least those guys would have to work on the defensive end. You hardly have to guard Batum, and Outlaw is pretty easy to stop (stay in front of him, stick a hand in his face when he inevitably takes a jumper).

Put Vince Carter out there with Roy, Aldridge and Oden, and I don't care if you are an elite swing man, you are going to have to work your ass off.

I like this deal. In a couple of years when his deal is expiring, you try to parlay his contract into another overpaid aging star looking for a ring.
 
PapaG said:
It's not necessarily 2010 I'm concerned about with Carter, although even then his game may be rapidly declining. It's 2011 and 2012, when I view him to be not worth that contract, yet his contract will become an obstacle to improve his position. It would be a tough call for me, though at the end I'd decline if I were KP.

It has nothing to do with VC's game right now, though. He'd be a huge upgrade even for this year and may be the reason for a series win or even two in the play-offs.
Click to expand...

Kind of reminds me of the deal Miami did for Shaq. It got them a championship, but boy did they pay for it. Still, I'm happy for Paul Allen to pay that price.
 
mook said:
He doesn't help us defend against Kobe or LeBron much better, but at least those guys would have to work on the defensive end. You hardly have to guard Batum, and Outlaw is pretty easy to stop (stay in front of him, stick a hand in his face when he inevitably takes a jumper).

Put Vince Carter out there with Roy, Aldridge and Oden, and I don't care if you are an elite swing man, you are going to have to work your ass off.

I like this deal. In a couple of years when his deal is expiring, you try to parlay his contract into another overpaid aging star looking for a ring.
Click to expand...

Travis has really been attacking the rim lately.
 
PapaG said:
It's not necessarily 2010 I'm concerned about with Carter, although even then his game may be rapidly declining. It's 2011 and 2012, when I view him to be not worth that contract, yet his contract will become an obstacle to improve his position.
Click to expand...

An obstacle in what way? One doesn't want to fall into a cycle of overpayment, but when one is over the cap, it really doesn't matter how much. Whether one is $1 over or $20 million over, you can't use the free agent market (except with the MLE). One thing to consider is that while the team will be over the cap either way, when Carter is an expiring contract, he may be a tradeable asset that the team can use to improve.

I think Carter is likely to be a very good player for the next 2-3 years and at least an average player for the rest of the deal. So that means the team may be overpaying him (quite a bit) for 1-2 years, but he won't ever be useless and in his last year, he'll actually be a tradeable asset. I think that's a pretty good proposition...1-2 years of overpayment for an average player isn't too bad a cost for improving the team a lot this year and the next 2-3 seasons (and getting a tradeable expiring deal down the line).
 
Minstrel said:
An obstacle in what way? One doesn't want to fall into a cycle of overpayment, but when one is over the cap, it really doesn't matter how much. Whether one is $1 over or $20 million over, you can't use the free agent market (except with the MLE). One thing to consider is that while the team will be over the cap either way, when Carter is an expiring contract, he may be a tradeable asset that the team can use to improve.

I think Carter is likely to be a very good player for the next 2-3 years and at least an average player for the rest of the deal. So that means the team may be overpaying him (quite a bit) for 1-2 years, but he won't ever be useless and in his last year, he'll actually be a tradeable asset. I think that's a pretty good proposition...1-2 years of overpayment for an average player isn't too bad a cost for improving the team a lot this year and the next 2-3 seasons (and getting a tradeable expiring deal down the line).
Click to expand...

An obstacle as in having a player under contract at a large amount of money who isn't productive. 2 years >> 4 years IMO. Mook brought up Shaq, which is a fairly accurate comparison to my view in terms of a monetary value argument. Still, as I posted earlier, if it is 2 years, or even a third being a team option, I'd make that deal immediately, and I'd think long and hard on a guaranteed 4 year Carter before saying no (depending on what is going out on the Blazer side with RLEC).
 
PapaG said:
Really? I thought he had 4 years left since it was mentioned earlier in the thread. If not, pull the trigger NOW! :ghoti:
Click to expand...

this year and two more at 16.3 and 17.3 million, with a team option for 2011/2012 for 18 million.

and his contract will be a big expiring then, and can help us net another nice player.
 
Minstrel said:
An obstacle in what way? One doesn't want to fall into a cycle of overpayment, but when one is over the cap, it really doesn't matter how much. Whether one is $1 over or $20 million over, you can't use the free agent market (except with the MLE). One thing to consider is that while the team will be over the cap either way, when Carter is an expiring contract, he may be a tradeable asset that the team can use to improve.

I think Carter is likely to be a very good player for the next 2-3 years and at least an average player for the rest of the deal. So that means the team may be overpaying him (quite a bit) for 1-2 years, but he won't ever be useless and in his last year, he'll actually be a tradeable asset. I think that's a pretty good proposition...1-2 years of overpayment for an average player isn't too bad a cost for improving the team a lot this year and the next 2-3 seasons (and getting a tradeable expiring deal down the line).
Click to expand...

that is how long his contract is. i see no downside here as far as diminishing skills go.
 
drexlersdad said:
that is how long his contract is. i see no downside here as far as diminishing skills go.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I wrote that post, I thought his contract was for 4 years after this season. Apparently it isn't.
 
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