What facts? That he's a giant and is 7 inches taller than the player he guards? That's going to cause problems but that doesn't mean he's a good defender.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ilovebball @ Mar 5 2006, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes.Amare can score- what else can he do? Yao can put up points as well.Yao beats Amare defensively, is a far greater rebounderI doubt that's the reason- it's probably because I am owning you in this argument.You are yet to present one fact as to why Yao is overrated. Your arguments lack substance, you should WATCH and ANALYZE more basketball games.</div>I wasn't getting into it at all before but sure. Here goes.Last year he was voted ahead of Smare Stoudemire in the ASG when Amare is more athletic and the far better offensive player and better overall player.Yao has a good offensive game but he gets overrated. He is not a good defender at all and for his height, does not block many shots or grab many rebounds. He is very timid on defense. He gets called better then guys like Camby who are defensive masterminds and when Camby isn't even far behind offensively. Yao looks lost on the defensive end of the court, he is very slow, not ver athletic. And for a guy getting the most votes in the ASG 3 years in a row, he certainly doesn't live up to it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BCB @ Mar 5 2006, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What facts? That he's a giant and is 7 inches taller than the player he guards? That's going to cause problems but that doesn't mean he's a good defender.</div>I'm discussing Yao's defense in the other thread lol. Yao has a good defensive +/- on one of the best defensive teams in the game. Is a shotblocking/shotaltering force down low who clogs the middle and has the heart to work for every stop (even if it results in a dumb foul or a posterization). What makes him a bad defensive plaeyr? I am yet to hear a valid argument.As for Amare's defense- it isn't bad, just underdeveloped. He is an amazing raw athlete, and a pretty hard worker (D'Antoni says he'll be back this year). He has the potential to be one of the greatest defensive players with an ability to block shots at will (reference: game-winning block on Brad Miller). <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 5 2006, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wasn't getting into it at all before but sure. Here goes.Last year he was voted ahead of Smare Stoudemire in the ASG when Amare is more athletic and the far better offensive player and better overall player.Yao has a good offensive game but he gets overrated. He is not a good defender at all and for his height, does not block many shots or grab many rebounds. He is very timid on defense. He gets called better then guys like Camby who are defensive masterminds and when Camby isn't even far behind offensively. Yao looks lost on the defensive end of the court, he is very slow, not ver athletic. And for a guy getting the most votes in the ASG 3 years in a row, he certainly doesn't live up to it.</div>AMARE was a FORWARD on the ballot last yearHe was voted ahead of players like Brad Miller, or Jammal Magloire (Camby was injured as usual) last year.He is a solid shotblocker averaging around 2 per game for his career, and is able to use his size to ALTER alot of shots. He is a solid rebounder averaging 10 per game.And he is VERY FAR AHEAD of Camby offensively. He gets 7 points more and shoots it at 4% better! I don't get how that isn't very far ahead. Has much damn good moves in the post, and is almost automatic within 3 feet of the bucket. Can't say the same about Camby.
I think the bottom line with Yao is people expect more of him due to his size and expect him to be dominant. He isnt a dominant player, but he is a good player who puts up good numbers. Maybe he could be more aggresive and more assertive on offense and defense as well is in the rebounding catergory, but the fact is he puts up good numbers regardless of his size. I dont like that he is the leading vote getter, but either way, with his numbers alone and the lack of centers in the league, he would likely make the team as a reserve either way..
I don't think Yao will ever live up to his potential. He doesn't have that killer instinct that separates the good from the great. But nonetheless, he is still a very good player. Also, it doesn't matter what position he plays, he would be the leading vote getter regardless. Anyone who thinks he would get less votes than Kobe if Yao was at G is crazy. China has the largest population in the world, and they will vote for their countryman.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davebsblmniac @ Mar 5 2006, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think Yao will ever live up to his potential. He doesn't have that killer instinct that separates the good from the great. But nonetheless, he is still a very good player. Also, it doesn't matter what position he plays, he would be the leading vote getter regardless. Anyone who thinks he would get less votes than Kobe if Yao was at G is crazy. China has the largest population in the world, and they will vote for their countryman.</div>No I agree that he gets the votes because of Chinese voters, but the fact is if he wasnt Chinese and you look purely at his numbers, he is as deservant as anyone to be a part of the all-star game at the center position in the West..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ilovebball @ Mar 5 2006, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm discussing Yao's defense in the other thread lol. Yao has a good defensive +/- on one of the best defensive teams in the game. Is a shotblocking/shotaltering force down low who clogs the middle and has the heart to work for every stop (even if it results in a dumb foul or a posterization). What makes him a bad defensive plaeyr? I am yet to hear a valid argument.As for Amare's defense- it isn't bad, just underdeveloped. He is an amazing raw athlete, and a pretty hard worker (D'Antoni says he'll be back this year). He has the potential to be one of the greatest defensive players with an ability to block shots at will (reference: game-winning block on Brad Miller). AMARE was a FORWARD on the ballot last yearHe was voted ahead of players like Brad Miller, or Jammal Magloire (Camby was injured as usual) last year.He is a solid shotblocker averaging around 2 per game for his career, and is able to use his size to ALTER alot of shots. He is a solid rebounder averaging 10 per game.And he is VERY FAR AHEAD of Camby offensively. He gets 7 points more and shoots it at 4% better! I don't get how that isn't very far ahead. Has much damn good moves in the post, and is almost automatic within 3 feet of the bucket. Can't say the same about Camby.</div>Are you sure about that? Amare played Center for the Suns last year.Using his size to alter shots is not skill. The point is, he is slow getting around on defense and is very timid. He is not a force on defense and on alot of occasions lets guys by him, without effort. Yes, he blocks shots but if you have a foot and say, 4 inches on some guys driving in, It's expected for you to get 1 and a half blocks a game. That still can't compete with Camby's 3. And not really a solid rebounder for his height, when he has 7 inches on center's he should get more then 10 a game. Camby still beats him easily at that. And yeah, he is better then Camby offensively, but who cares? The Center position is supposed to be for stopping players from getting to the basket and clogging the hole. Does Yao do that well? No. How about Camby? I'll leave that one up to you. And however, how can you not be dominant on offense when you have 7 inches on the guys guarding you. All you have to do is tip it over the defender, using some kind of move. It really gives Yao an advantage. Camby has a nice touch and gets most of his points on mid range shots. So that's why his percentage is down. He also hardly ever gets the ball, being overshadowed by Miller, Boykins, KMart and Carmelo. In Houston it's just TMac and Yao.And plus, I don't give a <Censored> if Yao can score 5 more points, he still is Jalen Rose compared to Camby.
Why can't 7'6" players be dominant offensivly? It seems like it's not possible to be honest. The size hurts as much as it helps in a lot of cases. Yao 2001 Yao 2005
Yes, it sure slows them down but at the same time it gives them the advantage. Yao won't ever be like Shaq in the post but he still has pretty easy baskets with his size and the height advantage.
Look at Bradley, Bol, Muresan....the height hurts a lot as well....People that big are just not very good other than blocking shots.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 5 2006, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you sure about that? Amare played Center for the Suns last year.Using his size to alter shots is not skill. The point is, he is slow getting around on defense and is very timid. He is not a force on defense and on alot of occasions lets guys by him, without effort. Yes, he blocks shots but if you have a foot and say, 4 inches on some guys driving in, It's expected for you to get 1 and a half blocks a game. That still can't compete with Camby's 3. And not really a solid rebounder for his height, when he has 7 inches on center's he should get more then 10 a game. Camby still beats him easily at that. And yeah, he is better then Camby offensively, but who cares? The Center position is supposed to be for stopping players from getting to the basket and clogging the hole. Does Yao do that well? No. How about Camby? I'll leave that one up to you. And however, how can you not be dominant on offense when you have 7 inches on the guys guarding you. All you have to do is tip it over the defender, using some kind of move. It really gives Yao an advantage. Camby has a nice touch and gets most of his points on mid range shots. So that's why his percentage is down. He also hardly ever gets the ball, being overshadowed by Miller, Boykins, KMart and Carmelo. In Houston it's just TMac and Yao.And plus, I don't give a <Censored> if Yao can score 5 more points, he still is Jalen Rose compared to Camby.</div>Amare played center but was a forwrad on the ballot- http://www.nba.com/news/allstar_050120.htmlSecondly- yes Camby's 3 to Yao's 1.5 is a great difference BUT Yao has been putting up 2 around his career, and the 1.5 is down- with a toe injury being a big reason. You can't complain about a guy's shotblocking when he puts up around 2 per game for his career. I still don't get why you guys can't accept the fact that Yao is a damn good defensive player- I've thrown all the stats and facts at you in these 2 threads- yet you keep on saying stupid <Censored> like, "he's Jalen Rose."I'm calling <Censored> on the "timid" or "without effort" statement. Yao is one of the only players who chases every shot even if it is a lost (like the posters) cause (please note that Yao has absolutely no weakside help due to the fact that Juwan Howard can't play D to save his life). Yao does get beat every once in a while, but so does everyone. The numbers do not lie- Yao's team does better defensively with him on the floor than they do with one of the greatest defensive players of all time.THE ROCKETS DEFENSE IS ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSES IN THE GAME- AND YAO IS THE ONE WHO ANCORS THAT DEFENSE. IT HAS BEEN AMONGST THE BEST FOR THREE YEARS NOW. YAO IS DEFINETLY THE BIGGEST REASON FOR THAT.Yao's rebounding isn't great but it has been coming along. 10 per game is solid no matter how big you are. Amare's 8.something is horrible considering his athleticism and perfect box-out body.Yao does clog the hole very well- infact he is one of the best at that due to the fact that he is 7'5" and over 330 lbs. AND define dominant on offense. Yao gets 20 points+ on 50%+. Personally, I can't complain about that.
^I agree. Everyone needs to stop bashing Yao. He's putting up 20-10 now, and ppl still bash him like they did his rookie year. He has improved, people.
hey. just look at the numbers. and just think.yao is superb... that's it.iloveball did a great job on arguing about this.7'6" and 330. he doesn't get LOTS of blocks, sure, but he alters so many shots w/ his size. he stand 7'6" w/o factoring in his arms.yao has some of the best footwork for a big man ever. definately one of the best over 7'2".you gotta admit that this guy has talent.
yeah lol he weighs 295 pounds. He is a skinny guy for a guy that tall but I think he is better off being skinny because if he bulks up he will be too big to do anything.
He's probably around 310...he's been listed at 295 for a few years and has put on tons of weight to his upper body since then.
Let's state the facts.-Yao is GOOD, not great.-He deserves to be an All-Star, just not the leading vote getter.-Without him on the Rockets, they suffer defensively-Vital to his team? I dont know (That is a fact)-He's not as good as Camby or Stoudamire, but in some cases can be listed among them.-Not as good as he should be for his height.FACTS CANNOT LIEor can they?
I would definitely take Yao over Camby but I don't know about Yao over Amare. Amare is a sick talent but he did get a lot of help from his friend Steve Nash. Also Marion was a part of that teams success. I would give Amare the slight advantage because of his unstoppable offense when he's healthy.
Yao ming has already taken the place as the best Center in the league. What else does he need to do? average 100-5-20 for everyone to be satsified?edit: Mavs fan i know you're a knowledgable user but on this you're wrong. Amare was going to blow up whether Nash came or not. Put any good PG on that team and you'll see Amare averaging the same amount of stats.Did you see the WCF for goodness sake?
