see, to me, the woman-fetus relationship is no differnt from a woman-child relationship. there has to be a certain expectation of taking care of one's child, whether its in the woman's body or outside the woman's body.
God came in around post #12 of this thread. So, if the choice is the baby lives or the woman lives, you believe the woman has a responsibility to die so that the baby can live? barfo
Define life. I mean, can you terminate a head of lettuce? Can you intentionally kill a bug? A fetus isn't a human, it is not by any accepted definition 'alive' I don't think Science means what you think it means. Anyway, up to 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage so if you let the life cycle take its course, and you're lucky a healthy baby may be born. That number was much higher before modern medicine. So would you claim denying a mother modern medicine is murder since it's likely to end in miscarriage? A fetus is not a person. That's exactly what I said. You either aren't listening to me or are purposely distorting my words so you can hide behind them.
no. there is no hierarchy here what so ever. If the baby dies, so be it. If the woman dies, so be it. I would still say that the purposeful killing of life is a form of murder.
I've defined life as beginning at conception. I don't understand your point regarding "denying a mother modern medicine" being murder. Again, its pretty cut and dried. If you are purposefully terminating a pregnancy, I see that as killing a life. You are extrapolating past my boundries.
It's completely different. It's not even remotely similar. So a 12 year old girl that has been raped by her step-father and impregnated owes religious people something? She owes it to you to be a mother? She owes it to her pedophile step-dad to mother that child. Do you even comprehend that almost every woman in the USA will be raped in their lifetime. Do you think they put on a condom for protection?!?!
So you are against hunting elk and picking mushrooms? Or do you limit this to purposeful killing of human fetuses (feti?) barfo
Doesn't answer the question. If you are against purposeful killing of life, then you should be against picking mushrooms. If not, explain. barfo
Then you would scientifically have to say that harvesting a plant is murder and ending any life is murder. God made ants too. I think it's quite simple. 1) We have modern medical care. 2) An intentional choice can be made to provide a fetus with modern care or not. 3) If an intentional choice is made to not provide care to the fetus and the fetus dies, under YOUR definition it is murder. Under your definition of murder, an insurance company is guilty of murder because they intentionally chose to end a human life by not providing treatment available. Why don't you take up that cause, since you know, those people ARE ACTUALLY ALIVE AND SUFFERING!!!!????!
You've spent two pages talking about "life" and now you're changing your tune. So life isn't important unless it's human? Yeah, I'm sure your God that created all that life would agree with you there.
I'm not having this plants are people too bullshit because its retarded. OK. for your second point. I stated that I defined murder as the pre-meditated and intentional cessation of life. By merely denying a standard of care afforded by the select few, I don't believe that this falls under the category of the intentional killing of human life. Far from it. You can have a child in a barn on a stack of hay.
You said a 12 year old girl that was raped and impregnated bares a responsibility*. EXPLAIN YOURSELF!!! * You actually said any pregnant woman bares responsibility. This is just a common example of your black and white thinking.
Ok, so you have a different rule for humans. Fine. Now explain where the boundary is between negligence (I didn't eat any ____ during pregnancy) and criminality (I tossed the baby off the ++++ Bridge). barfo
Nobody but you said that plants are people. You said intentionally terminating life is murder. Under your definition harvesting a plant is murder. I can't help it, THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID! You don't seem to comprehend the numbers here. Denying modern medical care to pregnant woman would directly lead to MILLIONS of dead fetus's that would be alive if they were given medical care. It's an intentional choice whether or not to give pregnant woman modern medical care. Your logic dictates that a choice not to provide care is murder.
