Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 7 2006, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, I can't hear any of you, I only hear the slurping of Laker's fans sucking Kobe's d*ck....Seriously, this has to stop. Many teams are terrible without their superstars. What would Celtics be without Pierce? Rockets are 1-16 when T-Mac doesn't play/finish games. Cavs are god awful without Bron. Phoenix would be under .500 without Nash. Kobe is an amazing player and is doing something totally amazing this season, but I am sick of hearing how Kobe is the next Jesus Christ and how he works miracles when other players are literally carrying other teams too.</div>...and the only way to get people to read your garbage is by adding an immature comment at the beginning.Nice strategy. It shows your credibility, both as a poster and as an NBA fan in general: none.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

Let's imagine BCB with no fingers.... now stop and think about this?Would he still try to type with his toes??

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

When Kobe does anything good, he's only doing it for his endorsements, and he's kissing ass. When Kobe does anything wrong, he's a losesr, and he's pathetic and should never play ball again.When Kobe sits out the final quarter after winning the game, he's doing it just for his image, and it's a slap in the face to Dallas. When Kobe plays through four and scores 81 points to get the win, it was uncalled for, and he should've sat the fourth.Kobe has teammates in Shaq, Malone and Payton...but fails to win a ring...and it's all his fault, even though Malone was hurt, Payton was completely destroyed by Billups, and Shaq was outrebounded by Ben Wallace by far. Kobe then misses the playoffs once in his career, and suddenly he's not cut out to be the best guard in the game. Bryant then maintains an 8th seed in the playoffs through the second half of 2005 and for January and February, but it's still not good enough, even at the moment.Let's see...instead of hitting fans with fists and telling the media to screw off, KB is generous and answers all questions...which is not satisfying to his critics, who want him to lash out and look stupid.Instead of trading blows with Shaq, Kobe Bryant says nothing and moves on, finally defeating the Heat on Martin Luther King Day. Nobody cares, because they enjoy Shaq's jokes, and the Lakers only won a single game against the Heat, nothing major...even though the Lakers completely suck when they lose to the Hawks...the same team who beat Detroit.Kobe is selfish, even though he averages nearly 6-7 assists after the All-Star game, with no real improvement in their record because of it. Therefore, he drops 40+ against the Warriors, Pistons and Spurs in three consecutive games, winning the first two and nearly coming back against the Spurs in the third game. Still, being selfish is wrong.Vince Carter doesn't like guys who shoot too much, especially the guy who wears 15 for the Nets, who was second behind Bryant in attempts per game last season.Sure, it was Kobe who ran Phil out. It must be why Phil is back on the sidelines after only one year. Shaq takes a paycut, drops to $20 million after he is traded to the Heat...yet he refused to do so in Los Angeles? Doesn't mean anything to others, because we all know it was Bryant who pushed him out the door...all while Buss refused to give him a $30 million extension, and Shaq asked to be traded in that same meeting.McGrady just doesn't want to play sometimes...but that's okay, because he has an excuse...right? All-Star Yao Ming is a top center in the league...but he sure can't get it done without T-Mac...having the worst record in the NBA without the All-Star guard. Odom should definitely get the ball more. If it wasn't for Kobe being a ball-hog, Odom would be the second option...even if he said he wasn't looking to be the second scorer, that he didn't like that role in the triangle...it doesn't matter, because the finger-pointing is directed at Kobe.Kevin Garnett is quite possibly the second best player in the NBA, maybe the best overall player in the league...and Kobe is nowhere to be found because he doesn't make his teammates better. Ironically, the Wolves aren't looking good at all...sitting at 26-32 and out of the playoffs.Kobe just can't beat playoff teams and have a great game...he has to rely on his teammates, even though:Lakers def. Dallas 109-106, Kobe with 43Lakers def. Washington, 97-91, Kobe with 41Lakers def. Dallas 112-90, Kobe with 62 in threeLakers def. Philly 119-93, Kobe with 48Lakers def. Clippers 112-109, Kobe with 50Lakers def. Indiana 96-90, Kobe with 45Lakers def. Detroit 105-94, Kobe with 40Why would Kobe Bryant want endorsements? Probably the same reason you would. For what reason does Kobe Bryant have to act like a "Golden Child" again on National TV? The same exact one LeBron James has. The same one Dwyane Wade uses. In fact, the same reason everyone but Kenyon Martin applies to their interviews.Everyone hates Kobe...it's a known fact. It's why Jim Jackson wanted to play in Los Angeles, why Ronny Turiaf talks so well about him, why Amare called him the best player in the NBA, why Kevin Garnett and Kobe work out together in the off-season, why Ron Artest wanted to play alongside him, why Steven A. Smith stated that he was a better person than people believe, the exact reason why LeBron James said he looks up to Kobe Bryant and is his role model, why Iverson said he should be this season's MVP, and why McGrady claimed that Kobe sets the mark for all guards in the NBA.Keep hating.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Lefty @ Mar 7 2006, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Let's imagine BCB with no fingers.... now stop and think about this?Would he still try to type with his toes??</div>

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 7 2006, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with most of what you said Real Deal except the reasoning behind why it's ok for Kobe to give himself a nickname. Nicknames are supposed to be made by other people, not yourself.</div>Do you realize how many nicknames shaq has given himself, "The Big Aristotle" and "Superman" are the most well known that come to mind.Forgot to add this"I put Kobe in a bind out there," Odom said. "He has to score 40 points just for us to win. I don't blame him for shooting 40 shots some nights. We should be embarrassed as a team. I know I am."

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 7 2006, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>...and the only way to get people to read your garbage is by adding an immature comment at the beginning.Nice strategy. It shows your credibility, both as a poster and as an NBA fan in general: none.</div>Again, all you do on these forums is praise Kobe and shoot down anyone who says crap about him. He is not the GOAT, not even top 10. He doesn't need, nor deserve, 3 new topics everyday explaining why he is MVP (and at this rate, if he doesn't make playoffs, he shouldn't be MVP). I think Kobe is a magnificent talent, probably the best player in the NBA this year. I acknowledge that, whether it be when I say he is better than T-Mac (who is my favorite player), he is better than Bron (who is actually my 2nd favorite player), or when I say for the career AI is better (when I acknlowedge Kobe is having better season and is right there). Yet, after I do say all the positives and start to list reasons why the other players may have a certain edge, you come out and bi*ch. Yet, you probably were hating on T-Mac when he was having a season just as good as Kobe in 2002-2003 (and got his team to playoffs), or hating on AI when he brought his average team to NBA finals and actually provided your Lakers a decent opponent, or when LeBron was doing things in his 1st 3 seasons Kobe still hasn't done, let alone when he was 18/19/20. And when you post this Kobe crap saying he deserves everything in the world yet neglect so many factors, especially when comparing him to other players, shows that you have no credibility as a fan and show you are only a Kobe fan, and nothing else. You aren't even a true Laker fan, because if you were, you wouldn't neglect the importance of Lamar being main playmaker for team and very valuable, Smush upping his game this season, Mihm and Cook as decent inside presences, etc.... No true team with a superstar can succeed without their star....ex: Rockets, Cavs, Celtics, etc.... So of course lakers would suck without Kobe, as would every other team with a superstar who carries the load. One last thing that Kobe fans fail to realize....there are so many questions around him yet to be answered, so when people call him GOAT or best in league or such an amazing player, it gets annoying. He has yet to prove he can carry an average team to playoffs or do anything in playoffs, has yet to prove he is not selfish or can overshadow that selfishness (team loyalty my <Censored>, he went with lakers for max contract, not to win), has yet to prove he can truly be a leader, has yet to prove so many things....PS- IMO T-Mac had the best statistical year in the NBA since MJ in the 80's, even better than Kobe's this year, and T-Mac made playoffs, yet he probably didn't get all these topics saying he was MVP or anything like that. Kobe gets way too publicized and to a degree, overrated.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

[quote name='Nitro1118' post='13970' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:04 PM']He is not the GOAT[/quote]Never said he was. People are looking for facts, not assumptions.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='13970' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:04 PM']He doesn't need, nor deserve, 3 new topics everyday explaining why he is MVP (and at this rate, if he doesn't make playoffs, he shouldn't be MVP).[/quote]Find me ONE topic I created in Comparisons or General NBA concerning Bryant. That's right, you won't find one.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='13970' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:04 PM']Yet, you probably were hating on T-Mac when he was having a season just as good as Kobe in 2002-2003 (and got his team to playoffs), or hating on AI when he brought his average team to NBA finals and actually provided your Lakers a decent opponent, or when LeBron was doing things in his 1st 3 seasons Kobe still hasn't done, let alone when he was 18/19/20.[/quote]1) Concerning T-Mac...an assumption. You have no idea how I felt about McGrady in 2002-2003. I started hating on him when he GAVE UP on his team.2) Concerning Iverson...an assumption...again. An average team doesn't contain the NBA's DPOY and MVP. When you surround your team with the scoring leader and great defensive players, you're gonna go somewhere in the East. Also...provided us with a decent opponent? We beat them 4-1, lost the first game of the series because we underestimated them. In the playoffs...15-1 record...like it was nothing.3) Concerning LeBron...fair enough. In that case, Kobe won a ring his fourth season...let's see if LeBron wins one next year. You fail to consider all things (such as LeBron playing 40 minutes a game when he first entered the league, etc), so I won't consider their teammates. For your sake, LeBron better win three straight starting next season, or your point is moot.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='13970' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:04 PM']And when you post this Kobe crap saying he deserves everything in the world yet neglect so many factors, especially when comparing him to other players, shows that you have no credibility as a fan and show you are only a Kobe fan, and nothing else. You aren't even a true Laker fan, because if you were, you wouldn't neglect the importance of Lamar being main playmaker for team and very valuable, Smush upping his game this season, Mihm and Cook as decent inside presences, etc.... No true team with a superstar can succeed without their star....ex: Rockets, Cavs, Celtics, etc.... So of course lakers would suck without Kobe, as would every other team with a superstar who carries the load.[/quote]Mihm and Cook are decent inside? That's a joke. NO defense whatsoever. Lamar is valuable as two things: the point-forward, and a rebounder. However, his decisions on the court suck, he's a terrible defender, and he misses more layups than anyone in the NBA. Smush upping his game this season has everything to do with his minutes. If you watch him, he hasn't done a damn thing since the 5th game of the year, where we all thought he was a good defender. Until you watch every Laker game, don't tell me how good our players are, because compared to me, you have no clue.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='13970' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:04 PM']One last thing that Kobe fans fail to realize....there are so many questions around him yet to be answered, so when people call him GOAT or best in league or such an amazing player, it gets annoying. He has yet to prove he can carry an average team to playoffs or do anything in playoffs, has yet to prove he is not selfish or can overshadow that selfishness (team loyalty my <Censored>, he went with lakers for max contract, not to win), has yet to prove he can truly be a leader, has yet to prove so many things....[/quote]Didn't you call him the best in the league in the post I'm replying to? Didn't you say he was amazing?He can't do anything in the playoffs? Did you watch the Lakers/Pacers series? I bet not. How about the Lakers/Kings? Do the Blazers bring back memories? Exactly...they don't, because obviously, you don't watch the Lakers.If Kobe wasn't loyal to Los Angeles, he would've asked for Odom to be traded already, would've demanded Artest to be brought here, or would've demanded a trade, since he's already got his contract. Since he hasn't done that, it still stands that he came back to Los Angeles because it's the only place Kobe wants to play for. Until you can manipulate that, twist it however with known facts, you have nothing to say.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='13970' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:04 PM']PS- IMO T-Mac had the best statistical year in the NBA since MJ in the 80's, even better than Kobe's this year, and T-Mac made playoffs, yet he probably didn't get all these topics saying he was MVP or anything like that. Kobe gets way too publicized and to a degree, overrated.[/quote]Where was he the following season, then? He's not even stable enough to play basketball this season.I'm getting bored.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Do you realize how many nicknames shaq has given himself, "The Big Aristotle" and "Superman" are the most well known that come to mind.</div>That's good to know, so what does that have to do with Kobe giving himself a nickname? I see your trying to say why am I not hating on Shaq, but thing is I commented on the Kobe nickname thing because it was brought up. And any player or person who gives themselves a nickname is a dumbass for the reason I stated.Edited: This thread is turning into a mindless Tmac fan/Kobe fan debate all of a sudden lol.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 7 2006, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And any player or person who gives themselves a nickname is a dumbass for the reason I stated.</div>We must all be dumbasses then, unless we go by our real names here.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>We must all be dumbasses then, unless we go by our real names here.</div>There's a difference between screename and nickname. Unless people actually call you your screename outside of the internet.Wanted to add this, also it's impossible for people to use their names on the net, because of duplication. If there's two Eric's, one has to be Eric1, and for the next one Eric2, or some variation on their name.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 7 2006, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There's a difference between screename and nickname. Unless people actually call you your screename outside of the internet.</div>Hating a player because he <u>joked</u> about a new nickname is like me hating Bogut because he joked about sacking Shaq's groceries, or hating LeBron for his Chosen 1 tattoo.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

Nitro my man, you need to realise that this thread was made by the biggest laker hater on this board.And can you name me one person who's said Kobe's the GOAT? Everyone says that we think kobe is the GOAT but cannot back it up.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>When Kobe does anything good, he's only doing it for his endorsements, and he's kissing ass. When Kobe does anything wrong, he's a losesr, and he's pathetic and should never play ball again.When Kobe sits out the final quarter after winning the game, he's doing it just for his image, and it's a slap in the face to Dallas. When Kobe plays through four and scores 81 points to get the win, it was uncalled for, and he should've sat the fourth.Kobe has teammates in Shaq, Malone and Payton...but fails to win a ring...and it's all his fault, even though Malone was hurt, Payton was completely destroyed by Billups, and Shaq was outrebounded by Ben Wallace by far. Kobe then misses the playoffs once in his career, and suddenly he's not cut out to be the best guard in the game. Bryant then maintains an 8th seed in the playoffs through the second half of 2005 and for January and February, but it's still not good enough, even at the moment.</div>That post was great. All of those points are true. I am ssick of the trolls on this board its ok to flame another team ever so often but if you keep doing it you will be suspended. This goes for everybody. If you dont like a team so what dont tell there fans that every day,Im getting sick of it its pissing me off.Get back on damn topic. I dont feel like babysitting.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

[quote name='Real Deal' post='13994' date='Mar 7 2006, 11:32 PM']Never said he was. People are looking for facts, not assumptions.Find me ONE topic I created in Comparisons or General NBA concerning Bryant. That's right, you won't find one.[/quote]Never said you do. It was directed to all Lakers/Kobe fans who have done similar things all seasons, as was my original post, which was not directed at you personally.

I never said you did think that, I was saying you are the kind of person. 2 things:1) If Kobe had that same team AI had and they didn't get past 1st round, you would say the right team wasn't built around Kobe and that his teammates suck offensively, and that West is way too hard. Fact is AI did get to Finals with an average team. yes, they were good defensively, but AI carrie doffensive load, leadership role, and he was just every bit amazing as Kobe has ever been. That is not a knock on Kobe as much as it is praising AI.2) Kobe didn't get minutes because he was NOT the player Bron was at same age. Not CLOSE. Even now, Bron is doing things Kobe has never done (get 30/7/7 on 48% shooting, willg et his team into playoffs, even a high seed). And bron doesn't need a ring next year to be on par with Kobe. If Bron had Shaq and the Laker team of 2000-2002, he would surely get to Finals, probably be champions too.

They are average players, except for Odom, who is the ONLY reaosn 9along with Phil) to why Kobe is going off this year. Without him setting up Kobe and taking the load off Kobe's shoulders in running the offense, Kobe would be having the awful year he had last year.

Best this year...doesn't mean best in the past 5 years or career. He IS amazing, no one will ever deny that.I watch Lakers when I can, have followed them for awhile, as I do with all my favorite players (T-Mac with Magic/Rockets, Bron his whole career from Junior year in HS to now, Nets for all my life, etc..). When I said can't do anything in playoffs, I meant when he is leading the team and main man. On his own with an average team, he has proven nothing yet. He hasn't had chance to prove anything in playoffs because he hasn't been there yet. Fine, fact for you: Kobe turned down multiple teams in which he would have had been in situations with teams that had second options better than odom and better role players, all of which Lakers fans bi*ch about. He also took the MAX contract with Lakers, and did not take any sort of paycut to bring in other players or to help out his franchise like KG did. Yes, KG's paycut wasn't a huge one, but it showed he truly did have team loyalty, especially one to a franchise that has done nothing for him the past 10 years. And guess what, the one year he took the paycut, they brought in Spree and Cassell, and went to WCF. T-Mac's last season with magic was same as Kobe's last year, and except statisitcally better. He also played around same amount of games. His team was far worse than any Laker team Kobe has played for, and when you are so far below .500, wouldn't you take take off at the end of the season when you have a terrible back? In the past 5-6 seasons, I showed a statisitc that Kobe has played the same percentage as T-Mac has played, and both ahve been injured a ton the past 4 years, so your point is moot.

Same here, only because Kobe fans continuously post crap and useless topics like these and totally shutdown any facts or anything to show any negative side of Kobe. He is my 3rd favorite player in the NBA, he is an enigma. But, it sickens me when fans make it seem like it is always hima gainst the world. People love and respect Kobe. Yes, some people try to bring him down like they did MJ, although to more of a degree (because of the rape allegations, which he brought upon himself), but everyone respects the man and knows he has been a top 5 player in the NBA for the past 5 years. That is why topics always reminding us of his greatness is stupid and annoying as hell, especially considering the points you guys make are useless and twisted.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

Stop for the love of god.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

You keep assuming, keep saying if, etc etc. Why compare two players in their first couple of years, when one didn't have the opportunity to be the franchise in his first couple of years? Does that make sense? Hell no it doesn't.Then you're still throwing McGrady in everyone's faces...telling me I didn't respect what he did. Tell me this: if McGrady didn't have teammates in that playoff visit in Orlando, why did his Houston Rockets (of last season) go just as far as his Orlando Magic did? Why can't McGrady get out of the first round with any teammates? Your problem is that you consider aspects of the game that go in your favor, including a player's position as he enters the league, a player's injury-free season, no coaching changes, a different offense, etc...but when it comes to Kobe Bryant, you see one thing: the record. You could care less about anything else, because to you, it was all Shaq. Fact is, Shaq hasn't won a damn thing without Bryant, not even an ECF banner...and he won't win another ring, either.If the Lakers were to pick up, say, Kenyon Martin, while keeping Odom...would you give Kobe credit if the Lakers went to the Finals, or would you give the credit to Odom and K-Mart and say that Kobe had a great team around him, much like the media would do? Oh wait, let me assume this time...I bet you'd say it was all about his team.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

[quote name='Real Deal' post='14023' date='Mar 8 2006, 12:12 AM']You keep assuming, keep saying if, etc etc. Why compare two players in their first couple of years, when one didn't have the opportunity to be the franchise in his first couple of years? Does that make sense? Hell no it doesn't.[/quote]Kobe wasn't the player Bron was when both entered league. Period. End of story.

I never said you didn't respect anything. i said you are the type of person to put everyhting in Kobe's favor and neglect other accomplishments by other players like you do with AI and him going to Finals. T-Mac pushed the Mavs, a team which has lost what, 15 games since Avery Johnson has come to town, to 7 games. Fact is he was unconcious each game of series, and his teammates were in 4 of the 7 games. They were in the 3 wins, and in 1 loss, when Terry went off in finals few minutes. And again, let's see Kobe get into playoffs before anything. And this isn't even about T-Mac vs Kobe, I have said Kobe is better before. My point being that T-Mac did what Kobe has yet to do multiple times, yet you don't give T-Mac any benefit from that.

The record is pretty much what matters in the end, and is a big part when looking at a player's greatness. Leading a team to playoffs is really a minimum IMO. So many players aren't considered great, mainly because they haven't gotten teams anywhere (JRich for example, and JKidd before he lead Nets to Finals twice). Kobe has only been the leader of a team for 2 years, and failed last year. He has lots to prove in that area. He could have went to a better situation, led a team to playoffs and got deep into playoffs, but didn't. Shaq has done that all career by going where emerging SG are playing, and has had major success. Actually, Shaq has won an ECF banner without Kobe (with Magic, when they were later swept by Rockets in Finals), won countless division titles, brought different teams to ECF before, brought arguably best team in league to 7 games in ECF, and keeps being smart and going to great situations.

Of course I would give Kobe everything he deserved. I don't give Kobe much credit now because he didn't lead those Lakers teams to Finals and championships, and was #2 to Shaq. From now on, Kobe is #1 with lakers, and if he can lead them to playoffs, or possibly further, 99% of that success would be because of him. Of course Kmart would get huge credit for that, but Kobe would still have lead that team.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq has done that all career by going where emerging SG are playing, and has had major success.</div>So what does that tell you? By the way, the Shaq comment about the banners/rings were concerning his position post-Kobe.The fact is that no player in the history of the game has won a ring by himself. I'm talking getting into the playoffs and advancing to the Finals, and bringing home the gold. You look at Bryant's team by looking at the names down the roster, but the triangle offense makes Odom a pathetic player. In fact, there are teams in the NBA that would bench Odom if he scored 13 a game. Sadly enough, that's our second option. I don't even think we've won a single game when Odom attempts more than 15 shots...the last time I checked, we were 0-7 with that in place.Remove all stars from their team. The Los Angeles Lakers would be the worst team in the NBA, by far, and it's not just because of the name on the back of their jerseys...it's because none of them know how to play the triangle. Our biggest problem is spacing and transition defense...all because of the tri. There are only two remaining players on this squad from the championship years, one is now injured (George). The entire starting five is different from two years ago, minus Kobe. When you look at the big picture, if Kobe can drag the Lakers into the playoffs, he deserves the MVP as much as anyone else in the league...because I doubt you can put any other player on this roster in replace of Kobe, run the triangle with all of them, and even get close to the post season.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Mar 8 2006, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So what does that tell you? By the way, the Shaq comment about the banners/rings were concerning his position post-Kobe.The fact is that no player in the history of the game has won a ring by himself. I'm talking getting into the playoffs and advancing to the Finals, and bringing home the gold. You look at Bryant's team by looking at the names down the roster, but the triangle offense makes Odom a pathetic player. In fact, there are teams in the NBA that would bench Odom if he scored 13 a game. Sadly enough, that's our second option. I don't even think we've won a single game when Odom attempts more than 15 shots...the last time I checked, we were 0-7 with that in place.Remove all stars from their team. The Los Angeles Lakers would be the worst team in the NBA, by far, and it's not just because of the name on the back of their jerseys...it's because none of them know how to play the triangle. Our biggest problem is spacing and transition defense...all because of the tri. There are only two remaining players on this squad from the championship years, one is now injured (George). The entire starting five is different from two years ago, minus Kobe. When you look at the big picture, if Kobe can drag the Lakers into the playoffs, he deserves the MVP as much as anyone else in the league...because I doubt you can put any other player on this roster in replace of Kobe, run the triangle with all of them, and even get close to the post season.</div>It tells me Shaq is a very smart player and it has resulted in lots of winning. It also shows he cares more than just money.I never said Kobe ever needs to win a championship to answer questions. All I ask is him to make playoffs and win one game. If he can do that, many of my points will vanish and I will have nothing to say of him but praise. As for Odom, he is not a good scoring option, but he plays PG for Lakers and takes that load off Kobe shoulders, the same load that gave Kobe 27ppg on lowest career FG % and over 4 TO's.I am sick of hearing of the triangle offense. Bottom line is Lakers this year have done better than Lakers last seaosn with much less talent. I agree with you completely, if Lakers ge tinto playoffs, he should be MVP. If he does, him and Nash are my 2 MVP's, if he doesn't, Nash is mine. AI has had an amazing season also, yet gets no considerations for whatever reason. Same with Bron, who is dragging a pretty crappy team to 4th seed in playoffs. And when you talk MVP, Rockets are 2-13 without Mac and 3-16 when he doesn't finish games. Doesn't get much more valuable than that.I am done with this. Nothing more to say, really.

 

Re: Let's picture the Lakers without Kobe for just a minute...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 7 2006, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It also shows he cares more than just money.</div>Must be why he still took $30 million from the Heat, declined $25 million or so from the Lakers, and when he was verbally beat up by Riley (finally), he took $20 million.The highest paid player in the NBA doesn't care about money...at his age, at his decline...doesn't sound right to me.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I never said Kobe ever needs to win a championship to answer questions. All I ask is him to make playoffs and win one game. If he can do that, many of my points will vanish and I will have nothing to say of him but praise. As for Odom, he is not a good scoring option, but he plays PG for Lakers and takes that load off Kobe shoulders, the same load that gave Kobe 27ppg on lowest career FG % and over 4 TO's.I am sick of hearing of the triangle offense. Bottom line is Lakers this year have done better than Lakers last seaosn with much less talent.</div>Odom plays the point-forward for the Lakers, not PG. There's a huge difference.Kobe dropped the 27 PPG last season because he was playing an offense that didn't center around him until the second half of the year, when they switched to the triangle and Odom fell to an injury. I don't see why you'd bring that up.The turnovers were simply because he was the primary ball handler all season last year. If that's a problem, Nash is averaging 3.7 TO's this season...The proof is right there...the triangle has been a disadvantage to this Lakers' team since Odom appeared, because it takes away from his scoring, rebounding, and the ability to post up. Therefore, we lose more than we gain, and Mihm/Kwame can't make up for that. I don't see why it's that hard to understand.