Rellogg, are you saying that Kirk has value around the league? Because as best I can tell, what you're saying is the that the Best the Bulls could get for him was expiring contracts who wouldn't play much. Which, ya know, signifies to me that Kirk doesn't have much value around the league. I'm a little surprised by this to be honest. Portland has a lot of guys with expiring deals who can, actually play. And young players on cheap deals that might help us down the road. They were reputed to like Kirk but when push came to shove they didn't make an offer.
To be fair, it remains to be seen if Gordon attracts interest as a FA, and what the potential S&T deals are for him. Though he isn't really that much of a FA, as few teams can actually bid (more than MLE) for him due to being to close to the cap.
I don't think it's really fair to judge player values by the offers teams receive for them at the trade deadline. The Suns weren't exactly getting great offers for Amare, were they?
Kirk is probably worth partial relief. As in, a team will give you about 2/3 expiring contract, mixed with 1/3 longer contract. If the Bulls could have gotten full financial relief for Kirk, I think he'd be gone right now.
My take is that no team was offering all contracts that end at the end of the year for Hinrich. And my theory is that some teams with capspace such as PDX *might*take Hinrich this summer for nothing but only as a move of last resort. i.e. All other preferred targets are gone.
Exactly. I only know what I hear. Accordingly to what the reporters around the team have said during interviews (Now if you don't find them reliable then that's not my problem cause I go off of what they say), Kirk and Noc were the only guys that other teams have ever showed interest in from year to year up until this point. For example Nate McMillan has wanted Kirk for 3 yrs according to what Sam Smith and KC Johnson have said. Assuming that the more interest from teams then more value they have, upply and demand and such, Then they are the most valuable guys on the team. That's just common sense. Kirk IS more valuable then those crappy Minnesota expiring contracts. I can say this because 1. The beat reporters have said multiple times that everything they hear from sources is that the team values Kirk/Noc more then that. 2. The Bulls turned down that trade from Minnesota for expiring contracts yesterday and he's still a Bull. That's all I said because that's all the beat reporters have reported. I'm not inflating his value out of my opinion for him. You all just refuse to acknowledge what his value is according to the team because you don't like him or he takes minutes away from Gordon or whatever.
Nocioni and Hinrich aren't the only players on the Bulls that had value in the league. That is blatantly false. The Celtics tried to trade Paul Pierce for Ben Gordon on draft night, and Pacers tried to do the same with Jermaine O'neal. Isiah Thomas wanted Ben Gordon for a long time when he was GM. The Grizzlies GM was mad that Paxson wouldn't include Gordon (or Deng) in a Gasol trade. Isiah Thomas, who is still a scout in New York, always tried to get Gordon. The Hornets inquired about Gordon both at the deadline last year, and this summer, but didn't have the contracts to make a trade work. Same with the Spurs and the Suns. The Miami Heat agreed to a contract with Gordon, and a sign and trade of Shawn Marion for Nocioni and Gordon, but the Bulls chose not to do the trade. Donnie Walsh agreed to trade Stephon Marbury for Ben Gordon. Bulls turned that down. During the 2006 NBA draft, the Raptors inquired about Deng, but were denied. Deng was the guy that the Grizzlies GM really wanted. The Utah Jazz agreed to a contract with Deng, and wanted to work out a sign and trade. The contract number that the Jazz came to with Deng ended up being the one the Bull signed him to. The Bulls turned down a deal of Kirk Hinrich for Collins and Cardinal. That is not a trade for all expirings. contracts. Hinrich wasn't even valuable enough to get full financial relief, just partial. I don't remember Kirk Hinrich having too much value ever. Pat Riley wanting him is the only on that comes to mind, and Riley likes all the Bulls old players. Blazers may have dome interest in Hinrich, we don't really know. According to most Blazers fans, Hinrich wasn't valuable enough to trade Lafrentz's contract, because Hinrich is only a slight upgrade over Steve Blake. The only big name I remember Hinrich being involved in the trade talks for was Kobe Bryant, and that's only because Kobe said he didn't want Kirk on his team because Kirk dribbles the ball too much. Nocioni? Besides the Kings stuff, never heard too much about other teams wanting him. Just the Bulls wanting to dump him.
Yeah true, which is why I didn't say that. I said they have more value on a more year to year basis. And that's from reporters not my opinion. Maybe you should read more carefully. Quoting Blazers fans mean absolutely zero to everyone except you and Blazer fans. Try finding someone with a little more credibility. Nate has wanted him for years. Not according to fans according to real journalists. Just because you haven't heard anything must mean it's never been said or thought then right? Um, no. And Pax said last night he wasn't dumped for money and it was a pure basketball trade. And who cares about Draft night...they hadn't played 1 second of NBA basketball at that point. Oh, and post links to what these GMs said about wanting Gordon. I want sources. Also I want a link to whee Kobe says Kirk dribbles too much and he doesn't want him on his team. Also sources and links that say anything about Kirk not being valuable enough for full cap relief.
