Shady- The average sized center in that era was 6'7''. Wilt was well over 7'. Not to mention centers were about as unatheletic as can be in that age. MJ had to compete against the hardest defenses in NBA's history, and many of the best defenders were at the guard position. MJ still came up and won 6 titles, countless MVP's ranging from Final's MVP, to All Star MVP, to league MVP, he won many scoring titles, DPOY, and is dubbed by the greats like Magic Johnson as the GOAT.
6'8'' tops. But you get the point, he WAS a full half foot taller than the competition, which sucked at the time.
Well, his listed height is 7'1'' at 275lbs, but some say he might have been much taller (Washinton Post says some sources say he was closer to 7'4''). He had huge arms, MSN Encarta says when standing under basket with arms raised, he wa sonly inches away from touching rim. Basketball digest says that he outweighes his opponents by an average of 47lbs, and I was reading saome forums, and they said Wilt was an average of 20cm (almost 8 inches) taller than his competition. You can definately look that one up, I been looking for the average height of an NBA center in 50's and 60's, but am having very little luck. I am sure the height advantage was at least 5-6 inches, though.And unlike Shaq, Wilt didn't have to deal with 7'6'' monsters, other center just as tall as him and more atheltic, 6'10'' PF who have 37 inch vertical jumps, etc... Not to mention guards and SF are now between 6'2''-6'8'', which is much larger than in Wilt's era., so rebounding would be less. Lastly, the tempo of today's NBA game is MUCH slower and MUCH more controlled and smart than back in the day, so that would have slowed down Wilt's scoring and rebounding.Again, I feel that compeititon MJ endured was much more difficult than what Wilt had to go through, and MJ brought SKILL where Wilt brought raw POWER. Here is an article comparing Shaq and Wilt, and while the comparison is a little iffy, the idea that Shaq is so much more talented and skilled where Wilt was just purely dominant is interesting and sort of shows what I people talk about when they say Wilt isn't GOAT:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._29/ai_80847876I'm done with this, as I firmly believe even if the height difference is only 2-3 inches, I still feel his HUGE size all over just gave him a huge advanatage, not to mention the style of play in those days meshed perfectly for Wilt to score and rebound so much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Oh come on, he didn't have much competition at all at Center. let's face it, Wilt was just dominant back then and if he played when Jordan did he would only be a 25 and 12 guy.</div>Bill Russell one of the reasons why Wilt had fewer championships.
Wilt's stats are so overrated. He post padding his stats like crazy.Alot of his points came during garbage time when everybody stopped caring and just looked to score because it was a blowout anyway.Wilt averages 46 minutes per game for his career. That tells you 2 things.1. The more minutes you play the more points you have a chance to score 2. His teams dominated alot of teams which means the bench players get there time at the end of games. If Wilt averaged 46 minutes that tells me he was probably playing the majority of the garbage time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 20 2006, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And unlike Shaq, Wilt didn't have to deal with 7'6'' monsters, other center just as tall as him and more atheltic, 6'10'' PF who have 37 inch vertical jumps, etc... Not to mention guards and SF are now between 6'2''-6'8'', which is much larger than in Wilt's era., so rebounding would be less. Lastly, the tempo of today's NBA game is MUCH slower and MUCH more controlled and smart than back in the day, so that would have slowed down Wilt's scoring and rebounding.Again, I feel that compeititon MJ endured was much more difficult than what Wilt had to go through, and MJ brought SKILL where Wilt brought raw POWER. Here is an article comparing Shaq and Wilt, and while the comparison is a little iffy, the idea that Shaq is so much more talented and skilled where Wilt was just purely dominant is interesting and sort of shows what I people talk about when they say Wilt isn't GOAT:</div>One comment, why are you comparing Shaq to Wilt if they were in such "differet" era's? Another thing, Yao Ming is not a monster, hes the tallest person to play in the NBA aside from one other player so "monsters" is not corrct either.
I wasn't comparing Shaq and Wilt, I just brought up an article which did, and which sort of relates to the MJ and Wilt arguement. I didn't bring up Yao once, either. The NBA in the 50's/60's were EXTREMELY atheltic and there was virtually no defense, so Wilt's stats shot up. Yao has to be guarded by extremely complex and effective defenses and extremely atheltic and huge players like Amare, Shaq (for his size, very atheltic), Duncan, KG, Dwight Howard, etc...
[quote name='Nitro1118' post='19589' date='Mar 21 2006, 01:40 AM']6'8'' tops. But you get the point, he WAS a full half foot taller than the competition, which sucked at the time.[/quote]Yao Ming is taller than anyone in this league. He doesn't dominate nearly as much as Wilt did.[quote name='BALLAHOLLIC' post='19973' date='Mar 21 2006, 09:57 PM']Alot of his points came during garbage time when everybody stopped caring and just looked to score because it was a blowout anyway.[/quote] His team didn't dominate. If he had any help whatsoever he wouldn't have carried such a load for his team. DUH!Allen Iverson averages 43 MPG, does that mean he plays garbage minutes?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 20 2006, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MJ had to compete against the hardest defenses in NBA's history, and many of the best defenders were at the guard position.</div>Backup your statement with facts, not opinions.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>MJ still came up and won 6 titles, countless MVP's ranging from Final's MVP, to All Star MVP, to league MVP, he won many scoring titles, DPOY, and is dubbed by the greats like Magic Johnson as the GOAT.</div> You wanna play the stat game?<ul>[*]Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1978);[*]NBA champion (1967, '72);[*]NBA Finals MVP (1972);[*]NBA MVP (1960, '66, '67, '68);[*]All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68);[*]Second Team ('63, '65, '72); All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73); [*]Rookie of Year (1960); [*]One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).[/list]Did MJ ever average 50/25? Did he win MVP in his rookie year? I'm not saying Wilt is the GOAT, but to say that an arguement can't even be made is simply ridiculous. Wilt dominated the NBA much more than Jordan, but no one can really compare these two players since they're in two different eras.I just think that Wilt deserves more respect than this.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 24 2006, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't bring up Yao once, either.</div>Then who is the "7'6 monster" that you said Shaq has to deal with?
Wilt played in a time where no NBA players were atheltic or fast, when no one lifted weights, and defenses were next to nothing. Shaq has to deal with 7 footers with 36 inch vertical jumps, complex defenses, etc... Your statement is ridiculous, compeition these days is much tougher as the players have become rediculously more athletic, stronger, faster, etc... And not just at center, either. You got people like Bron and VC with 40 inch jumps grabbing rebounds and doing amazing things. No one ever could average Wilt's numbers in this era.[quote name='Shadyballa8D12' post='22561' date='Mar 24 2006, 07:42 PM']Backup your statement with facts, not opinions.[/quote]It isn't opinion, it is fact. And many of them were at guard position, too (Payton, Pippen, MJ himself, etc...). Defense as a whole changed dramatically in the 90's, just looka t how low scoring the teams were compared to the 80's, and now 00's. Wow, those stats are pitiful, especially if you think they are so dominant to MJ's stats:-Drafted No. 3 by the Bulls in the first round -Six NBA championship teams (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998) -NBA Finals MVP six times (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998) -NBA Finals single-series record for highest PPG average 41.0 (1993) -NBA Most Valuable Player five times (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998) -All-NBA First Team ten times (1987-1993, 1996-1998) -NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time team (1996)-Highest career PPG ave. (minimum 400 games or 10,000 points) - 30.1-Has posted 28 career triple-doubles -2 Time All-American & NCAA Player of the Year award -Two playoff career triple-doubles, both at New York (5/9/89 and 6/2/93) -Named the 1988 NBA Defensive Player of the Year -Scored a career playoff-high 63 points against Boston on 5/20/86 -Eight playoff games with 50 pts. or more -30 regular season games with 50 pts. or more -173 games with 40 points or more-Has hit 28 game-winning shots in the NBA-Hit the game-winning shot in the 1982 NCAA championship game as a freshman-Named NBA Rookie of the Year (1985) -A member of the gold medal-winning 1984 and 1992 United States Olympic Basketball Teams -Ranked 3rd in All-Time leader in points scored -All-Star record having the only triple-double in an All-Star game (1997)-Member of the 1997 McDonald's Classic Championship team in Paris -Won the 1997 McDonald's Classic MVP award -All-time record for most consectutive double-figure scoring games -Holds the all-time playoff record for the most steals -Hit the game-winning shot in the 1998 Finals to win a sixth and final championship -Had his #23 jersey retired for the second time at the United Center on 1/13/99 -Notched his 30,000th point on 1/4/02 against the Bulls -Only 40 year old NBA player to ever score over 40 points on 2/21/03 -Had his #23 jersey retired by the Miami Heat in honor of him on 4/11/03 -Finished his career with 32,292 points, 5,633 assists and 6,672 rebounds. MJ may have never averaged 50/25 against less powerful, mcuh less athletic, and 6 inches shorter compeitition in a era with no defense, but he still mananged to rack up a more impressive career as a 6'6'' 215lbs swingman. It can't be made. Wilt had very little skill, just power. As I showed in the article, a case can easily be made that SHAQ is more skillfull than Wilt was. MJ was 100% skill, and his accomplishments in a MUCH tougher NBA where he was a guard is amazing. Just look at those accomplishments. I feel Wilt isn't even 2nd best all time. IMO that spot goes to Oscar Robertson. 8 straight seasons of more than 28PPG (6 of those 30PPG or more) and 4 seasons of 30/10/9, even averaged a triple double one season, and was .1 rebound off of another season with a triple double average. Also these accomplishments:Elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1980); NBA champion (1971); NBA MVP (1964); Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1961-69); All NBA Second Team (1970, '71); Rookie of the Year (1961); 12-time NBA All-Star (1961-72); All-Star MVP (1961, '64, '69); One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Olympic gold medalist (1960).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 25 2006, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wilt played in a time where no NBA players were atheltic or fast, when no one lifted weights, and defenses were next to nothing. Shaq has to deal with 7 footers with 36 inch vertical jumps, complex defenses, etc... Your statement is ridiculous, compeition these days is much tougher as the players have become rediculously more athletic, stronger, faster, etc... And not just at center, either. You got people like Bron and VC with 40 inch jumps grabbing rebounds and doing amazing things. No one ever could average Wilt's numbers in this era.It isn't opinion, it is fact. And many of them were at guard position, too (Payton, Pippen, MJ himself, etc...). Defense as a whole changed dramatically in the 90's, just looka t how low scoring the teams were compared to the 80's, and now 00's.Wow, those stats are pitiful, especially if you think they are so dominant to MJ's stats:-Drafted No. 3 by the Bulls in the first round -Six NBA championship teams (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998) -NBA Finals MVP six times (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998) -NBA Finals single-series record for highest PPG average 41.0 (1993) -NBA Most Valuable Player five times (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998) -All-NBA First Team ten times (1987-1993, 1996-1998) -NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time team (1996)-Highest career PPG ave. (minimum 400 games or 10,000 points) - 30.1-Has posted 28 career triple-doubles -2 Time All-American & NCAA Player of the Year award -Two playoff career triple-doubles, both at New York (5/9/89 and 6/2/93) -Named the 1988 NBA Defensive Player of the Year -Scored a career playoff-high 63 points against Boston on 5/20/86 -Eight playoff games with 50 pts. or more -30 regular season games with 50 pts. or more -173 games with 40 points or more-Has hit 28 game-winning shots in the NBA-Hit the game-winning shot in the 1982 NCAA championship game as a freshman-Named NBA Rookie of the Year (1985) -A member of the gold medal-winning 1984 and 1992 United States Olympic Basketball Teams -Ranked 3rd in All-Time leader in points scored -All-Star record having the only triple-double in an All-Star game (1997)-Member of the 1997 McDonald's Classic Championship team in Paris -Won the 1997 McDonald's Classic MVP award -All-time record for most consectutive double-figure scoring games -Holds the all-time playoff record for the most steals -Hit the game-winning shot in the 1998 Finals to win a sixth and final championship -Had his #23 jersey retired for the second time at the United Center on 1/13/99 -Notched his 30,000th point on 1/4/02 against the Bulls -Only 40 year old NBA player to ever score over 40 points on 2/21/03 -Had his #23 jersey retired by the Miami Heat in honor of him on 4/11/03 -Finished his career with 32,292 points, 5,633 assists and 6,672 rebounds. MJ may have never averaged 50/25 against less powerful, mcuh less athletic, and 6 inches shorter compeitition in a era with no defense, but he still mananged to rack up a more impressive career as a 6'6'' 215lbs swingman. It can't be made. Wilt had very little skill, just power. As I showed in the article, a case can easily be made that SHAQ is more skillfull than Wilt was. MJ was 100% skill, and his accomplishments in a MUCH tougher NBA where he was a guard is amazing. Just look at those accomplishments. I feel Wilt isn't even 2nd best all time. IMO that spot goes to Oscar Robertson. 8 straight seasons of more than 28PPG (6 of those 30PPG or more) and 4 seasons of 30/10/9, even averaged a triple double one season, and was .1 rebound off of another season with a triple double average. Also these accomplishments:Elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1980); NBA champion (1971); NBA MVP (1964); Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1961-69); All NBA Second Team (1970, '71); Rookie of the Year (1961); 12-time NBA All-Star (1961-72); All-Star MVP (1961, '64, '69); One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Olympic gold medalist (1960).</div>
Michael Jordan Wilt although he had alot of basketball talent only was that amazing in the nba at that time due to his height. He was much taller than many of the others which allowed him to get lots of easy shots. For god sakes MJ scored over 30 points when he had the flu and it's not like he was taller than other nba players during his time.
