Fluctuating weekly MVP discussion.

If you don't understand by now, I don't even know what to say. Nash wins that MVP award for losing nearly 70 ppg out of his starting five, in an offensively-focused system, and still keeping them at a very similar level of production as the previous season, when they did have those players.

My lord, can it really be that difficult?

You keep stuffing words in my mouth and then saying that I've 'backed myself into a corner'. I think that's apparent to anyone reading this who isn't ballwashing Kobe.

 

Did MJ deserve five MVPs? He was the best player in the league, still is the best in league history, but that is not an automatic shoo-in for MVP. You and huevon clearly don't understand this.

lol

KOBEE SHOOD HAF WUN BECUZ MAI CRYTEERIA IZ COREKT AND TEH NBA IZ RONG!

Was it me that absent-mindedly included Amare in the 06 discussion? If so, I apologize. I'll explain why that team, down Nash and Amare, would be so horrific, down below.

Jackson would have kept them afloat. Not making-the-playoffs afloat, but he would have gotten 28-32 wins out of them.

Phoenix, meanwhile, without Nash and Stoudemire (a.k.a. a team of Marion, Bell, Diaw, and Kurt Thomas), would be truly terrible because they have no point guards or big men. Not good big men, no big men outside of garbage like Pat Burke.

 

The MVP right now is Wade. Hes scoring more than Kobe, on higher %, and gets his team involved even more.

However, they havent given the MVP to a guy whose team had less than 50 wins since Moses Malone in the 80's, which leaves Kobe or Lebron.

 

barring injury its Lebrons hands down (not sarcasm)

no way Kobe could be back to back MVP, that would mean he's on the same level as Nash /sarcasm

 

Re: Wade new #2

16 ppg is a shell of his former self? No now he's a shell of his former self, barely averaging double digits, can't hit a three, and was regarded as an expiring contract in trade talks, rather than a player. Try again.

Guys like Eddie House, James Jones, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa, and Raja Bell aren't overly impressive players. 3 of those 5 players had their best seasons in 05-06. What does that tell you? It tells me, judging from looking at some of these guys' numbers from previous or subsequent seasons, that these were average players that Nash turned into real contributors. If guys like Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, and Sasha Vujacic were sent to Phoenix in exchange for the players listed above, you would have seen similar numbers from them, and as a result, similar results on the season.

Have you watched a single Miami Heat game THIS FUCKING SEASON? More offensively capable centers, better forwards? What the flying fuck are you thinking? The only guy who falls into the 'offensively capable center' category is Jermaine O'Neal. But A) ais points come from mid-range jump shots more than him establishing a solid presence down low, evidenced by him never having a season in which he shot 50%, like the vast majority of big men who actually have a dominating post presence, and his abnormally high rate of turnovers. Understand? B) They've had him and that improved from nothing offensive game at center for a fucking month. C) He still gives you little help on the glass and on the defensive end, which the core of my argument about the bigs anyway, which you yet again fail to understand. He can't even grab six rebounds a game anymore, considering he plays on one leg.

Odom and Beasley, again, cross each other out. Haslem is a productive forward, and is a granted leg up from LA's 06 power forwards. Cook and Kwame, between them, average out to about 7.7/5. For starters that isn't good, for a bench power forward that would be fine.

Do you know the definition of the word negligible? It means a small, minute difference that you almost have to be looking for in order to find. If there was a Steve Nash in the NBA this season transforming a bunch of pieces of shit into quality contributors, just like Nash did in 06, then I'd say give it to that guy. But there isn't. Should Kobe have won the MVP in 06 if the Phoenix Suns lived up to their preseason expectations and shit the bed? Absolutely.


So no dood, u lozt.

Diaw's passing helped Phoenix's offense run, but it did not make that offense. A common idea in that offense was Nash to Diaw, who kicked it out to Jones, Bell or House for a three. The great thing, if it was Odom in that role, he would done five times the job at it than Diaw did, although I'm sure you'll deny that stating some bullshit reason.

07-08: 14 and 10 - half the season with a losing team
08-09: 12.5 and 8 - losing teams, traded in the deal that made Miami better

01-02: 19 and 10 - no one else on the roster did anything, Marion was talented enough to pick up that slack and pad his numbers a bit, essentially proving my argument since he was by far that team's best player and they couldn't do anything. The reason Phoenix was respectable in 03 was the emergence of Stoudemire.

Is it that, or is it you continuing to twist my words around in attempt to connect two completely unrelated points, so you can set up more fields of strawmen for me to knock down?

Doesn't the fact that they didn't play any defense help Nash's case? Since, you know, it is conventional wisdom that defense wins.

Oh I get it, huevon wants MVP award to be teh EXCITING!!


News, the MVP award isn't meant to excite you. Nash deserved the MVP, Kobe did not. Get over it.

Are you honestly saying you'd rather have Glen Davis or Brandon Bass starting at center over Chris Mihm? Mihm did okay that season, so it doesn't speak to however unproductive Mihm may be... that just speaks to either a) your intelligence/common sense/understanding the purpose of the center position, or b) desperation to not be proven wrong.

lol


No, the connection was that if you have proven how uneffective Odom was, and both Shawn Marion and JO'N played worse than Odom, that those two players are worse than Odom, and by extension, means that

That not having Mihm for the playoffs somehow hurt you, when his replacement stepped up and played better than Mihm did.

And yet again, you try to connect two unrelated points in order to try and save face. Nash has nothing to do with this discussion, and there is nothing hypocritical about my opinions of Nash and Wade being the most deserving MVPs. Try to understand that.

As for the actual post, the Heat were a 15 win because of Wade's injury, very good. But if you want to accurately judge if LeBron could have led the Heat to more than 15 wins under the same circumstances, well 'circumstances' means trying to predict how he would fared with the same shoulder injury with the same severity. You refuse to acknowledge that, saying 'BUTT IT WOENT HAPPIN!' because you know you have nothing there.

Well golly-gee-shuckers, he played 77 and 75 games in 04-05 and 05-06, so that makes him fragile. Reach a little more next time.

IT WAS THE SAME INJURY THAT HE INITIALLY SUFFERED AND EVENTUALLY TRIED TO PLAY THROUGH! WHY DO YOU KEEP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF LIKE THIS??

So does that mean he's automatically the more viable MVP candidate now?

There it is again, your blatant refusal to predict how LeBron would have done in Wade's position, because you know it kills your argument. It's fine though, dodge points and make strawman arguments as you please.

I'm not changing the criteria, another strawman.

Better player has nothing to do with wins or stats, or the true deserving recepient of the MVP award. Is it boring? Yes, but its also right.

Not so much a strawman as just stupid. Nash was the deserving MVP, LeBron is the deserving MOP (Most Outstanding Player, outstanding being a synonym for best).

And now you're accusing me of holding grudges? All because I hold that LeBron isn't the deserving candidate and neither was Kobe in 2006? Grow up, take off your Laker jersey, and stop acting like a six year old. This is BBF Nets fan material you're throwing at me. U JUZT DOENT LIEK HYM TATS Y U DOENT AGRIE!

LeBron's ability to make his teammates better doesn't compare to that of Nash, I think that's pretty simple. Mo Williams is the only meaningful player putting up career-best numbers in any meaningful category (points, a .9 increase from last year).

The Clippers were only listed as the 6 seed, but they won 47 games and had home court over the 3rd seeded Nuggets. So you've failed again.


Keep trying though, it is entertaining.

Do you have any point? OMGZZZ HEEZ NOT A SOOPERSTAR! Who gives a shit? Superstar isn't a prerequisite for MVP. Its the most valuable player to his team. Plain and fucking simple. Keep convincing yourself that it should go the de-facto best player or the scoring champion.

I did say that? Do link me.

This is ridiculous. You have paid zero attention to my reasoning for anything thus far, that much is evident. You just skim it, then interpret into what you want it to say, then present that bullshit and pass it off as a valid argument and supposed evidence why I'm wrong. Try it on someone a little more naive than me, and you might get better results.

If you had actually paid attention to anything I've said so far, you would know that I've said the difference lies in a couple of bench players, like DQ. A small increase in quality among a bench player or two doesn't translate into more wins.

Nearly all of the pundits had the Lakers in the playoffs, and had them finishing right about where they landed. Nearly all of the pundits also said that the if the Suns can tread water and stay at .500 in time for Stoudemire's hopeful February return, they might be able to get a favorable matchup with the three seed or something. That didn't even happen (Stoudemire's return, save 3 subpar games where it was apparent he wasn't ready).

Accept that your excuse for debating is tying unrelated points together in a feeble attempt to at least get me on something (and you can't even win at that), since you can't win the original arguement.

 

You didn't know that the award should go the best player, even if it isn't named/meant for that? /sarcasm

 

And the denial-stuffed Kobe ballwashing continues to run rampant.

 

Are you so angry about me washing you out that you and Lost One need to snicker together like little girls after both of you get embarrassed?

 

That must be it, I'm a white supremacist and that's why I stand by Nash and not Kobe. Did you know my great-great-great grandfather owned a plantation in Tennessee?


*No personal attacks please*

 

That is the way to go, unlike your short-sighted excuse for a position that the MVP should go to the best player on the best team. Isn't that what Finals MVP is for? Are you still reading the post or have you already started drooling all over your nice white Kobe jersey?

Very good. Too bad its sarcasm, you might actually be on the right track here.

 

Nash wins the MVP for having quality depth behind Amare?

Diaw is just as good without Nash, check it out if you don't believe me. Marion was a star with or without him.

You just said Kobe should get penalized for not "overachieving" like Nash, yet Wade is on pace to win 44ish games and he's an MVP? Indeed you have backed yourself on this one.

 

Dude you're not funny, deal with it.

Ok, and?

Lakers without Kobe would have won as many games?

 

The MVP right now is LeBron then by your standards, he's a better passer than Wade and doesn't need to play PG and dribble nearly as much as him. He's a better rebounder and more efficient, because he can shoot three pointers.

 

You flat-out don't get it, do you?

Marion never was a star, one.

I already covered Diaw in Charlotte, you must have missed it (or chose not to acknowledge it): someone has to get the numbers on a shitty team like the Bobcats. Any NBA player currently in a rotation, on a somewhat respectable team, has the ability to do that. Thing is, the team doesn't win with these guys of players as the main options.

I never said Kobe should be penalized. I said Nash should be rewarded. There is a difference. If Steve Nash was doing the exact same thing this year as he did in 2006 with that same cast of characters, then yes he would deserve it over Wade too.

 

Yes, if not more.

 

JE this is an unacceptable fashion in which to retort, please refrain from this language towards posters.

 

hahaaha that picture is awesome.

Win.