NBA MVP Between Kobe, D-Wade, and LBJ: It's Mamba v. Flash v. King

Wade is more deserving than Kobe.

 

PER's not even the end-all, it also rises with fewer minutes played in a season. They both deserved MVP mentions, but an empirical analysis about who is having the better season is more than just a few offensive numbers.

Basketball-reference doesn't even agree with you. Kobe also has a higher percentage of win shares than Wade on their site, because he plays more minutes a game so the total PER produced over the entire season is just as valuable to his team, and it takes into account teammates. He's one of the most durable "28 PER" players ever in a single season. I thought you weren't a fan of PER? Only when it suits your taste I guess. Also, what does MVP have to do with taking less shots a game? Jordan struggled to win 42 games during some epic seasons shooting a bunch, that doesn't take away from his MVP caliber play.

Kobe struggled the first ten games in the 06 season, then produced the same PER at 41 MPG in 06, that's why his team won so many games, and why Wade will max out around 45 as well even though he's having a better PER season. Also add to the fact that steals/and blocks are not a measure of stifling defense; Kobe guards more positions, at an overall better rate for longer periods of time according to what I've seen from 82games.

Kobe at 36 minutes a game and at this age is a stretch for MVP, I'd much rather see him save something for the playoffs.

 

I don't really think the MVP should be a competition. It SHOULD go to Wade. He's done more with so much less this season, it's ridiculous. You take him off the Heat, they're just where they were last year, a team that MIGHT win 15 games. He has carried that team on his back all season and has them in contention for the 4th seed in the East, something most people didn't see coming.

Too bad he's in the same position as Kobe was a few years back. Kobe should have won back to back MVPs for carrying the Lakers, but because he was on a mediocre team, he got snubbed. History isn't on Wade's side either. No player on a sub-50 win team has EVER won the MVP, and the Heat aren't going to break 50 wins this year.

So, while Wade is by far the most deserving, he won't get it because of his team. At this stage, it's LeBrick's award to lose. He's on the team with the best record in the NBA and has put up mind boggling stats. Too bad he shouldn't win it. They don't have a worthwhile road win and have a semi-inflated record because of their piss-poor conference.

 

Haha, and where would the Cavs be without LeBron?

He's made Mo Williams an All-Star. Delonte West is having a career season alongside him. Ilgauskas gets all the open looks in the world.

LeBron is the Cavs. Just as much as Wade is the Heat, and one team has won 57 games. And what does not getting road wins matter when they are 30-1 at home and will more than likely finish with home court throughout the playoffs?

This "But Wade IS the Heat, they have no one else" argument shits me to tears. It's like LeBron gets punished for making his teammates play way above themselves, but when Wade does it all himself he's amazing as he has no help.

Wade deserves to at least make it a contest, but he's not even the most deserving, let alone a clear-cut most deserving.

The only reason LeBron isn't getting the same hype as Wade is simply because such stunning numbers are now the norm for him. Another triple double? Oh, that's expected, but OMGZ WADE SCORED 45!!!

 

His teammates aren't THAT bad to me. Mo Williams (even West) is getting less assists a game because LeBron can't create for himself off the ball and needs the ball in his hands almost all the time. Mo is just killing it from the FT line for some reason at a rate he hasn't before too. Big Z has been a top 5-10 center for a while and he gets some decent defensive help on his squad. Delonte West is not having a career season and he's been a solid guard elsewhere. I don't think he's made Mo better overall; more open looks from the arc but teammates can't create for themselves as much. As I've stated though he seems the most qualified for the award this season.

 

umm PER is one of the stats I tossed out there and mostly because some ppl on this site value it. Note how I didn't go into the exact difference for that at TS% whereas I did for other stats? But hey go ahead and ignore those facts, it's rather conveinient for you.
To me the FG% is far more important because it's shows that Wade is a more efficient scorer.
Taking 5 less shots a game show's he's not being a ball hog like Kobe was but is finding a better balance between carrying the scoring load and involving team mates. Hence the 3 more APG

btw empirical means relying on observation and experience alone, often without due regard for system and theory, ie stats. So using an empirical analysis would be basising your opinions soley watching the game and not using the stats at all.

I agree steals and blocks are not a sole way to show a players defensive capability. Man to man defense can not effectively be measured by stats. You have to watch the players play. From the games I've seen (an admitted small sample size) Wade is a solid man defender.
I also think that averaging out someone's defense over 48 mins is impure because hardly anyone plays 40 mins and endurance is a huge factor in a players ability to play good defense for an entire game. So averaging it out over a game is flawed by nature.
I've always put little value in any stat that says per/x number of minutes. It boils down to how long you actually play the game, not what you COULD do. Guys who play 12 mins a game, play that many minutes for a reason as do guys who play 39 mins a game.

 

I could also say Wade takes away assists from the PG position since he always has the ball in his hand and doesn't work as much off the ball. You'll observe that per 100 possessions Kobe outscores and outdefends Wade's team, and basketball reference gives Wade a slight edge in teammate help.

Field Goal percentage ignores that Kobe destroys Wade in Three Point shooting, TS% is a better measure of efficiency, but certainly not an end-all. The fact is that all PER rises with fewer minutes played, so not accounting for basketball-reference's own rating system shows your attempt to use their stats, not your own judgment like you normally do in these debates, was flawed and something I wanted to bring attention to. I don't know how averaging 36/6/5 on a 57 TS% for the last 70 games of a season is being a hog, to me it looks like an amazing feat even MJ didn't do IIRC. You just like a more facilitating type of player, which is fine but your definitive tone is what I objected to.

You are right about the definition of the word "empirical" in one sense, I like to use the third definition though.

em⋅pir⋅i⋅cal
   /ɛmˈpɪrɪkəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [em-pir-i-kuhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment.
2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.
3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.
Source: dictionary.com

You're using a qualitative analysis imo, if we want to get technical. I suppose empirical is just too vague of a word.

I don't know what you're talking about then, because it looks like you simply support my point from before with these last few comments. It looks like you missed the main portion of the comment I made earlier. Take into account how more rest usually means less credit for victories and the ability to have a higher PER; that certainly has nothing to do with extrapolating stats over 48 minutes but rather a measure of durability/etc. . David Robinson is also much better than you gave him credit for then, if you want to visit basketball-reference so much.

 

I thought it would be LeBron hands down, but then thought it was going to be D-Wade because of the huge individual games he had. Now it could be Kobe since he's making a run for the Lakers getting best record and home court advantage throughout the playoffs. Okay, I admit watching the past two Cavs games and Lakers games had an influence. LeBron needs to step up his game during the last two weeks and then he should get it. Too bad this post didn't have a poll. It would be interesting.

 

I think BronBron has it locked up now.

Wade is having a spectacular year, but he is doing what Bron did last year (not as goo d stats though as Bron was 30, 7 and 7) and Bron didn't win the MVP. Kobe won it because his team was better... so now Bron is not only among the top 3 statistically in the NBA, but he has the best record in the NBA. Should go to him.

 

actually lebron is far more deserving... not only is he having the greatest statistical season ever next to MJ's (as PER [player effeciency rating]) but has a far better team record.... but definatly dwade before kobe.. also people are throwin dwight completely out of the mix... if he doesnt get a good chunk of votes ill be suprised...

 

oh and also.... lebrons per would be higher if the cavs played anywhere near as fast as the bulls did back when.... also mj played more minutes than lebron

 

Per is pace adjusted, and players can start to break down if given too many minutes. Being able to play more ball possessions than an opponent is actually a benefit as well.