Kobe has the better scoring game and Wade has the better passing game. They both are equally important.I agree, their both important. However the gap between their scoring is bigger than the passing gapp. You don't think so? Assist count doesn't tell the whole story but it tells part of it. Kobe's averaging 5 assits per game [ i rounded up]. Last season he averaged 6 aspg as the iniator, it was actually 7aspg untill Rudy resigned and Hamblen came in [he decided to shake up the offense]. This season kobe bryant's job is not to pass, it's his job to put the ball into the hoop. That doesn't mean he's passing skills have disappeared, they've just been replaced for the moment.What you're forgetting is that kobe plays better on D than wade. Again, heat fans i've come across have said this so please, do not try to deny. Steals do not equal defense, it means you gamble more than players. So if kobe bryant is the better offensive player and defensive player how is he not better? As lakaboy said, this thread is finished.
Wade averages 2.2 assist more per game which is about 5 more points. Also Kobe's long shots lead to easier shots for the other team when misses makes up partially for the small difference in defense. I'll point it out to you when it happens. Wade also puts more pressure on the defense when driving which leads to easier shots even if they aren't direct assist.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 21 2006, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade averages 2.2 assist more per game which is about 5 more points. Also Kobe's long shots lead to easier shots for the other team when misses makes up partially for the small difference in defense. I'll point it out to you when it happens. Wade also puts more pressure on the defense when driving which leads to easier shots even if they aren't direct assist.</div>I completley agree with you, i've noticed that some of kobe's shots lead to easy scores from the other team. He takes those long shots because he can make them consistently and he has done so this season. For every easy score the team has, kobe will hit 3 shots. The positive outweights then negative in this case.Phill will probably tell kobe to cut down on those long shots and attack and use the midrange to stop those easy scores.edit: You still haven't explained to me how kobe isn't the better overall player? Considering kobe plays both sides of the ball better than wade does?
Kobe's defense 1 on 1 is better but it is neutralized by his shot selectionOn offense Kobe scores more but Wade gets his team involved which is 5 more points that way. Wade has a better assist/to ratio. Wade is slightly better at rebounding and blocking. This is why I'm giving Wade the slight edge in overall player. Getting teammates involved makes them better players than just being a prescence like Kobe is. so overalldefense= equalpassing Wadelittle things (rebounding, blocks, and steals) WadeScoring KobeOverall Wade. Hype seems to distort reality sometimes and Kobe has been getting hype for a long time now. Maybe it is hollywood and playing along Shaq for a long time but that is how he got it.edit: I'm out.
Ok, you can continue to be stupid. I won't continue to waste my time with you. This is officially my last post in this thread [responding towards you that is]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I agree, their both important. However the gap between their scoring is bigger than the passing gapp.</div>Does Kobe really score more?Kobe is scoring 35.4 ppg on 45% shooting, while taking 27 shotsWade is scoring 27.2 ppg on 49.5% shooting, while taking 18.8 shots. Seeing that Wade shoots nearly 50%....so, if Wade were to take 8 more shots to make up the 8 shot differential and make 1/2 of them, Wade would be averaging roughly 33 points per game. Now the scoring superirority of Kobe over Wade doesnt look that great, Clutch_Melo_061.
It really doesn't matter. You're assuming that if wade took more shots that his efficiency would remain. We can only speculate but specalution takes you so far. That's when you have to come back to realilty.The facts are that Kobe is averaging 35ppg compared to wade's 27. That's a 5 point game, which is considerably big.Wade averages 2.2 assists more than kobe [kobe's job is to put the ball into the hoop and let Odom do they assisting]. 2.2 x 2= 4.4 That gets rounded down to 4.Let's subtract the points wade creates from the advantage kobe has on scoring.Ugh, kobe's advtange is 8.2 instead of 5.28-4=4The gap widens.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 21 2006, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It really doesn't matter. You're assuming that if wade took more shots that his efficiency would remain. We can only speculate but specalution takes you so far. That's when you have to come back to realilty.The facts are that Kobe is averaging 35ppg compared to wade's 27. That's a 5 point game, which is considerably big.Wade averages 2.2 assists more than kobe [kobe's job is to put the ball into the hoop and let Odom do they assisting]. 2.2 x 2= 4.4 That gets rounded down to 4.Let's subtract the points wade creates from the advantage kobe has on scoring.5-4=1As i told you, the gap is bigger.</div>You just lost the argument right there. Saying that its Kobes job to score, basically submits to the idea that Wade has the all around better game.
have you forgetten about defense? Defense is half of the game, if you Play good on both sides of the ball you're an allround player. Kobe bryant plays better defense than Dwayne wade. He is also the better scorer. That alone makes him the better player.Kobe's job is not to pass or create for people, that is the truth. I already said Wade is the better passer but kobe's scoring outweights it [ i just proved it above].Here is my post earlier on<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'll break down these players for youScoring- Kobe bryant is the better scorer. He's offensive arsenal is much better than wade's and his ppg shows itShooting- Kobe wins this in a lanslide, i don't even have to explain.Passing- Dwayne wade is more team orientated and is the better passer.Efficiency- You might think by looking at their field goals and thinking wade is. However you are mistaken.SatisticsThose bunch of stats are more realiable than nba.com because they take everything into count. Kobe is more efficient.Defense- Kobe wins this again. Kobe's defense has regressed this season because of obvious reasons however it's still better than wades. Kobe bryant has locked down guys like Carter and Ray allen multiple times. Dwayne wade cannot. Wade's defense is good, however it's not better than kobe's.Clutch- Both are huge 4th quarter preformers however i'll give kobe the edge because he's hit bigger shots than wade and is leading the league in 4th quarter points.</div>I broke them down comprehensively. I added all the major things you rate people on. I didn't mention their blocks or rebounding or steals because there very similar and there's a small gap between them in those areas.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 21 2006, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>have you forgetten about defense? Defense is half of the game, if you Play good on both sides of the ball you're an allround player. Kobe bryant plays better defense than Dwayne wade. He is also the better scorer. That alone makes him the better player.Kobe's job is not to pass or create for people, that is the truth. I already said Wade is the better passer but kobe's scoring outweights it [ i just proved it above].Here is my post earlier onI broke them down comprehensively. I added all the major things you rate people on. I didn't mention their blocks or rebounding or steals because there very similar and there's a small gap between them in those areas.</div>Prove what? By saying that the 2.2 assist advantage to Wade is all 2 pointers. How can you assume that? And I wonder how you judge defense? Ill do it statistically, if you dont mind:For every 100 possesions, Kobe scores 112.6. For every 100 possesions of defense, he allows 107.8. So a +4.8For every 100 possesions, Wade scores 113.8. For every 100 possesions of defenes, he allows 105.2. So a +8.6. Not only did I prove to you that Wade is a better defender efficiency wise, but offensivly as well.-Courtsey of 82games.com
You keep mentioning that Wade has better rebounds and blocks? That is insane!!!!It's not even Wade's job to get rebounds or blocks. Dwayne Wade is not a PF or a Center! He's barely a shooting guard at that height! Kobe already has people to get him rebounds and blocks so he won't tirehimself out since he spends his energy trying to play world class D while taking the shots his team is too scared to take on the offensive end. And look up the word assist. To have an assist the player you pass it to must make the shot. Look at a Laker game (especially before the all-star break) and watch how Kobe would pass it to a wide open teamate only to have them brick it or even drop the pass!And the per 48 minute, per 100 possesions, or per whatever is a stupid stat. Who's to say Wade won't get tired and start throwing bricks or missing freethrows? Alot of basketball players have admitted that they'd be too tired to take 30 or even 20 shots a game. Kobe's shooting form on his last shot is the same as on his first shot. I don't know why you're defending this cause, besides the fact that you want to get back at someone with who apparently made fun of Tim Duncan?
Prove what? By saying that the 2.2 assist advantage to Wade is all 2 pointers. How can you assume that?And I wonder how you judge defense? Ill do it statistically, if you dont mind:For every 100 possesions, Kobe scores 112.6. For every 100 possesions of defense, he allows 107.8. So a +4.8For every 100 possesions, Wade scores 113.8. For every 100 possesions of defenes, he allows 105.2. So a +8.6.Not only did I prove to you that Wade is a better defender efficiency wise, but offensivly as well.No you didn't, you fail once again. Those stats indicate when wade is on/off the court but it doesn't show where the opposition's points are coming off. All it shows is that when wade is on they allow less points than when he's off.Find me a stat that shows me where opposition's points are coming from.
Dwayne Wade is inferioir to Kobe Bryant. That sums it up.To break it down to you retards, who are directly responsible for Wade being one of the most overrated players in the game, Bryant is simply a better basketball player. Too many times team success drowns out how good a player is. If I asked you, who had the better jumpshot, one would say Kobe Bryant without hesitancy. If I were to ask who had the better turn-around jumper, one would say Kobe Bryant. Considering Kobe gets most of his points with 15-20 foot jumpers, Kobe also has the better midrange jumper. Kobe has a better jumpshot, is a better postup player, and has a wider arsenal of offensive moves to go to. He takes Wade is a battle of the skill-set.In terms of defense, although Kobe and Wade are both inconsistent and vastly overrated, Kobe has won a few undeserved All Defensive Team awards, and at times is a comparable defender to Michael Jordan. When Kobe tries, as inconsistent as it is, he is a great defender. Not good, great. Kobe is a better defender than Dwayne Wade in terms of one-on-one play.Now here it comes, Wade shoots 4% higher FG percentage. Why is that though? Because he is constantly attacking the rim because he has no jumpshot. All he does is attack, attack, attack. That's why wade averages a near .5 more TOs than Kobe. (3.13 - 3.57)Over the past 3 years, yes Wade has been a superioir clutch player in all aspects, but he's never taken a game over in the NBA Finals. We all remember Kobe torching the Pacers that one game, torching NJ, torching Philly. Bryant has simply been in situations Wade hasn't, and he has shined.Basically, I love the way Wade plays, unselfishly, flashy, getting better constantly. However, Kobe is simply superior in terms of his skill. He is just such a beter basketball player. Better defender, better scorer, and he's even had 7 RPG seasons, something Wade has never done. Add in all his records (3 Point record, Lakers scoring record, 81 point game, one of 5 players to average 35) and Kobe simply owns Wade at this point, as well as every other NBA player
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 22 2006, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwayne Wade is inferioir to Kobe Bryant. That sums it up.To break it down to you retards, who are directly responsible for Wade being one of the most overrated players in the game, Bryant is simply a better basketball player. Too many times team success drowns out how good a player is. If I asked you, who had the better jumpshot, one would say Kobe Bryant without hesitancy. If I were to ask who had the better turn-around jumper, one would say Kobe Bryant. Considering Kobe gets most of his points with 15-20 foot jumpers, Kobe also has the better midrange jumper. Kobe has a better jumpshot, is a better postup player, and has a wider arsenal of offensive moves to go to. He takes Wade is a battle of the skill-set.In terms of defense, although Kobe and Wade are both inconsistent and vastly overrated, Kobe has won a few undeserved All Defensive Team awards, and at times is a comparable defender to Michael Jordan. When Kobe tries, as inconsistent as it is, he is a great defender. Not good, great. Kobe is a better defender than Dwayne Wade in terms of one-on-one play.Now here it comes, Wade shoots 4% higher FG percentage. Why is that though? Because he is constantly attacking the rim because he has no jumpshot. All he does is attack, attack, attack. That's why wade averages a near .5 more TOs than Kobe. (3.13 - 3.57)Over the past 3 years, yes Wade has been a superioir clutch player in all aspects, but he's never taken a game over in the NBA Finals. We all remember Kobe torching the Pacers that one game, torching NJ, torching Philly. Bryant has simply been in situations Wade hasn't, and he has shined.Basically, I love the way Wade plays, unselfishly, flashy, getting better constantly. However, Kobe is simply superior in terms of his skill. He is just such a beter basketball player. Better defender, better scorer, and he's even had 7 RPG seasons, something Wade has never done. Add in all his records (3 Point record, Lakers scoring record, 81 point game, one of 5 players to average 35) and Kobe simply owns Wade at this point, as well as every other NBA player</div>You know I usually agree with you, but very, very wrong here.So what, Kobe has a better jumpshot? Wade's is more efficient from 15ft as he is smarter and more controlled offensively. Wade's FG % IS higher because he attacks rim....and that is a bad thing? KG scored 24PPG on 50% shooting, most of that either driving/posting up or shooting a 12-15ft jumpshot, do you hold that against him? Yes Kobe has more of an offensive arsenal, and when on fire that comes into use, but most of the time Wade is much more efficient and when you ask him to shoot, he will hit it 1/2 the time. He will not go 9-33, which is the type of stat Kobe is fmailiar with.No arguement from me about Kobe being better defender.Except for Finals, Wade has been in situations Kobe has not, and THEN some. Wade proved in his rookie season he can carry a decent team to 2nd round of playoffs and give the 1st seeded team a scare. Kobe still hasn't proven he can win a game in the playoffs without Shaq. Wade proved to be #1 option with Shaq on team, and unlike Kobe, torched the Pistons and knew when to pass, unlike Kobe who chucked up terrible shots and choked in those Finals. Kobe has only had one season with near 7RPG (6.9 once) and only had one other season with more than 6RPG.Kobe doesn't "own" Wade. he is better, but not superior.
Again, your definitions of efficient are complete rubbish. You once said LeBron James was a more efficient player than Michael Jordan, even though MJ has a better jump shot and shoots higher percentages.And Wade's 15 footer isn't better than Kobe's. Again, that's all he takes, so it's what people think he's good at. You should know from watching TMac: Kobe is the type of scorer who gets 5-10 points off free throws per night, and then 10-20 points off jumpshots. Kobe has a much better jumpshot than Dwayne Wade. A 15 footer? Please. You act like that's impressive.Plus Kobe has done many more legendary things than Wade. Does historic significance mean nothing?Plus, Wade hasn't proven he can win with Shaq. He hasn't won 3 Championships like Kobe. There's a massive difference between winning 3 championships and getting to the Conference Finals once
If it's all about stats than Kobe wins. Wade gets his teammates involved and has to share the ball with some selfish players who don't play defense. (Walker and Williams). If it weren't for that the Heat would be championship contenders again. Wade makes Haslem the player he is. Haslem relies on someone creating shots for him and Wade does it on a regular basis. Kobe is one dimensional on offense and that is scoring. He is not good in finding the open player or able to pass over a double team to the right player. His court awareness is weak. Kobe shoots 5% less and if he isn't shooting well than he is uneffective.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 22 2006, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Plus Kobe has done many more legendary things than Wade. Does historic significance mean nothing?</div>Read the other thread and I attacked the historic argument of Kobe and why that wasn't impressive. The team had perfect players built around Kobe and shaq. Mcgrady, Wade, and James would've done the same thing if not even being more dominant with improvement in passing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 22 2006, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, your definitions of efficient are complete rubbish. You once said LeBron James was a more efficient player than Michael Jordan, even though MJ has a better jump shot and shoots higher percentages.And Wade's 15 footer isn't better than Kobe's. Again, that's all he takes, so it's what people think he's good at. You should know from watching TMac: Kobe is the type of scorer who gets 5-10 points off free throws per night, and then 10-20 points off jumpshots. Kobe has a much better jumpshot than Dwayne Wade. A 15 footer? Please. You act like that's impressive.Plus Kobe has done many more legendary things than Wade. Does historic significance mean nothing?Plus, Wade hasn't proven he can win with Shaq. He hasn't won 3 Championships like Kobe. There's a massive difference between winning 3 championships and getting to the Conference Finals once</div>Umm I don't think i ever said Bron was more efficient than MJ (although 32/7/7 on 48% shooting is as good statistically as almost anything MJ ever did in a season). Never said it was, but it is far more efficient. He gets open 15 ftr's because his driving makes people take a step back. Kobe on the other hand takes 20ft fadeaways over double teams. I never said he was better offensively, but he is definately more efficient as a scorer. He is also more efficient than T-Mac, Pierce, etc... I could care less how bad his 3 is, he still gets 27PPG on 50% shooting, which is staggering for a 6'3'; player (he looked shorter than JKidd in person, so I do not believe he is 6'4''). Except for championships on teams that he was more of a role player on and that streak of 9 games of 40, Kobe did nothing legendary until this year. Before this year his career high was 56 points. Wade is only a 3rd year player, let's give him time before we start comparing historical significance. I will say Kobe is more proven as he does have 3 rings and proved himself in Finals, but comparing historical significance is unfair.If he didn't get injured, they would have won it all last year. Shaq was also injured. Put Wade on those LA teams and you would have 3 chgampionships, possibly 4 or 5 as he is a better playmaker than Kobe. I would say getting to conference Finals on a team worse than LA teams were with 1/2 a Shaq and pushing a team better than ANY team LA ever faced (when they did play that team, they were nearly swept) to 7 games. And once again, I give Kobe a plus for 3 championships, but it is unfair to compare championships when Wade is only 24.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 22 2006, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If he didn't get injured, they would have won it all last year.</div>Lets not get carried away here. The spurs were dominating every team until they met the Pistons. Most spurs fans would agree that the Pistons match up better to the spurs than the Heat.
Spurs would have no answer for Wade, just like Pistons didn't. And since Duncan was injured, he would have had hard time with Shaq. Then you get role player sinvolved.....Heat woulda won had Wade stayed healthy.
The Heat would have no answer for Duncan and Parker. Bowen would be the best defender Wade had to go against and Rasho has done a good job on Shaq in the past. The spurs would have home court I think as well.
