Duncan was hurt last year and wouldn't have been very effective or dominant. Shaq is different because he is so massive he'd still get 20/10 easily. As for Parker, he wasn't as good or smart as this year, and last year Heat had Zo, haslem, and them who would collapse on Parker. Lastly, Wade is too fast, ahtletic, and explosive for Bowen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 22 2006, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Plus, Wade hasn't proven he can win with Shaq. He hasn't won 3 Championships like Kobe. There's a massive difference between winning 3 championships and getting to the Conference Finals once</div>There are a two things wrong with this line of thinking. A) Wade has only been with Shaq for one year, Kobe was with Shaq for two or three years before winning a Championship. Shaq was younger at that time, and was the number one option on the team, Kobe was not the not the number one option. On this team, Wade is their number one scoring option, Shaq is the number two option because he is on the old side of things.As far as actual skills go, Kobe is a much better player. He is a better defender, his defensive posture, putting his hands in the right place, sliding his feet are as fundamentally correct as they come. One on one, he can play as good of defense as anyone else in the league, when he actually plays. The problem is, Kobe only likes playing defense against the people he thinks are in the same league as him with scoring. Kobe's passing is very good, he can see the floor very well, and find the open man. Watch the first five mintues of just about every Lakers game. He passes the ball to everyone, and trys to get into the flow of the offense. If the team is not hitting, or Lamar Odom and Smush Parker are passing up open shots and playing with no agressiveness like i have seen both do this year, Kobe starts taking more shots. Kobe's shot and offensive game is better than Wade's, and that's from anywhere on the floor. Kobe is deadly from behind the arc, and when he shoots from inside the arc, he can make those 15 footers as well as Wade, but as has been said, he takes more of a variety of shots, not just 15 footers. The only thing Wade can do better than Kobe from what i see, is split a double team, or trap. I think Wade is the best in the league at going between two defenders, because of his speed, agility, and relative low size compared to other players.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Apr 22 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only thing Wade can do better than Kobe from what i see, is split a double team, or trap. I think Wade is the best in the league at going between two defenders, because of his speed, agility, and relative low size compared to other players.</div>Wade is a far better passer than Kobe, way more efficient offensively, is better at driving to basket, arguably a better rebounder, and is close to Kobe in clutchness.
Wade is a much better passer than Kobe. He is great at doing outlet passes on the fastbreak. Does Shaq need an outside game? If Wade is so dominant inside why should he be taking outside shots? Also defensive awareness also counts for defense. Not just one on one defense. Kobe tends to drift away from shooters off the ball. That type of defense is just as costly if not more allowing Bowen or some good shooter gets many 3 pointers.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 23 2006, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan was hurt last year and wouldn't have been very effective or dominant. Shaq is different because he is so massive he'd still get 20/10 easily. As for Parker, he wasn't as good or smart as this year, and last year Heat had Zo, haslem, and them who would collapse on Parker. Lastly, Wade is too fast, ahtletic, and explosive for Bowen.</div>Stop overhyping the Heat. No way Haslem could hold Duncan. Duncan scored at will against Amare Stoudemire in the WCF along with Parker scoring at will on Nash. Rasheed and Billups are great defenders. Damon Jones and Haslem are not. There is no comparison and the Spurs would've won in 6.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 23 2006, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade is a far better passer than Kobe, way more efficient offensively, is better at driving to basket, arguably a better rebounder, and is close to Kobe in clutchness.</div>Nitro, i would expect more from you.Kobe's done too much in the clutch to be "close" to wade.When he was 21 with shaq on the bench kobe went 4/4 ot and the lakers won the game and after that won the championship. Now that alone beats anything wade has done in his career interms of clutch.Wade is a far better passer than Kobe, way more efficient offensively, is better at driving to basket, arguably a better rebounder, and is close to Kobe in clutchnes[s/b]Wade is better but don't make is drastic. Rebounding? Are you joking me? There's like a .30 difference between the two. Usuing rebounding as a case it a joke.Kobe bryant is also the more efficient player [go check out John hollinger's stats]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 22 2006, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade is a far better passer than Kobe, way more efficient offensively, is better at driving to basket, arguably a better rebounder, and is close to Kobe in clutchness.</div>Wade's speed helps him get to the basket a little quicker than Kobe, but i believe because of Bryants strenght and height is better at finishing when he gets to the rim than Wade. As far as passing and efficient offensively, Wade is better with the team than Kobe. I was looking at more of a skills stand point though. As has been said, Kobe's not going to have the assissts Wade has, because he doesn't have Shaq, and the rest of the team Wade has to pass to. If Kobe passes alot, this team is going to loose, he has to take those shots instead of getting the assists like Wade can do. If you actually watch though, instead of read the box scores and stats, Kobe can make any pass to any point on the floor. I think Kobe is Wades equal in passing skills, but again, this is just my opinion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 22 2006, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nitro, i would expect more from you.Kobe's done too much in the clutch to be "close" to wade.When he was 21 with shaq on the bench kobe went 4/4 ot and the lakers won the game and after that won the championship. Now that alone beats anything wade has done in his career interms of clutch.Wade is a far better passer than Kobe, way more efficient offensively, is better at driving to basket, arguably a better rebounder, and is close to Kobe in clutchnes[s/b]Wade is better but don't make is drastic. Rebounding? Are you joking me? There's like a .30 difference between the two. Usuing rebounding as a case it a joke.Kobe bryant is also the more efficient player [go check out John hollinger's stats]</div>Kobe has done nothing clutch since Shaq. Since Shaq left he refuses to pass in clutch and takes ridiculous shots. Also, taking team to playoffs in your first seaosn, taking over in playoffs, taking team to 2nd round, and then pushing Pacers to 6 games is pretty damn clutch by Wade. I said arguably a better rebounder. I guess it can go either way, and you gotta give Wade props since he is 2-3 inches shorter than Kobe. Wade is main playmaker for the Heat, while Kobe isn't. When he was he had over 4 TO's per game. Wade is more efficient.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As far as passing and efficient offensively, Wade is better with the team than Kobe. I was looking at more of a skills stand point though. As has been said, Kobe's not going to have the assissts Wade has, because he doesn't have Shaq, and the rest of the team Wade has to pass to. If Kobe passes alot, this team is going to loose, he has to take those shots instead of getting the assists like Wade can do. If you actually watch though, instead of read the box scores and stats, Kobe can make any pass to any point on the floor. I think Kobe is Wades equal in passing skills, but again, this is just my opinion.</div>What good is skills if you can't use them as efficiently as possible? Kobe never had the assist number Wade has, and Wade never had a healthy and fairly young Shaq like Kobe had. And I agree skill wise Kobe is as good as Wade for passing, but Kobe chooses not to pass, and when he does it is usually because he is trapped and then makes a bad pass which = a TO. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Stop overhyping the Heat. No way Haslem could hold Duncan. Duncan scored at will against Amare Stoudemire in the WCF along with Parker scoring at will on Nash. Rasheed and Billups are great defenders. Damon Jones and Haslem are not. There is no comparison and the Spurs would've won in 6.</div>Pistons last year were almost carbon copies of the Spurs, yet Heat would have beat Pistons if Wade was not injured. Parker, Ginobli, and Bowen would not have been able to guard Wade. Duncan went nuts against Suns because everyone does against that type of team. He averaged 7PPG more against Suns than he did against those other teams in the playoffs. Shaq and Duncan would have cancelled each other out, but there would be no answer for Wade. Not to mention the Heat were arguably deeper than the Spurs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 22 2006, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pistons last year were almost carbon copies of the Spurs, yet Heat would have beat Pistons if Wade was not injured. Parker, Ginobli, and Bowen would not have been able to guard Wade. Duncan went nuts against Suns because everyone does against that type of team. He averaged 7PPG more against Suns than he did against those other teams in the playoffs. Shaq and Duncan would have cancelled each other out, but there would be no answer for Wade. Not to mention the Heat were arguably deeper than the Spurs.</div>This Heat team is much different than last year.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statisticsKobe is more efficient. Hollinger is also a wade fan.
Once again, Kobe doesn't have to be main playmaker for team, thus much lower TO's per game. If it wasn't for that they'd be tied or equal there. Overall Wade is more efficient offensively. Better FG %, more consistent, better passer, better at making choices.Once again, I fully believe Kobe is better, but Wade is hated on way too much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 23 2006, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Once again, Kobe doesn't have to be main playmaker for team, thus much lower TO's per game. If it wasn't for that they'd be tied or equal there. Overall Wade is more efficient offensively. Better FG %, more consistent, better passer, better at making choices.Once again, I fully believe Kobe is better, but Wade is hated on way too much.</div>He is still more efficient and ealier on you said he wasn't.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 23 2006, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pistons last year were almost carbon copies of the Spurs, yet Heat would have beat Pistons if Wade was not injured. Parker, Ginobli, and Bowen would not have been able to guard Wade. Duncan went nuts against Suns because everyone does against that type of team. He averaged 7PPG more against Suns than he did against those other teams in the playoffs. Shaq and Duncan would have cancelled each other out, but there would be no answer for Wade. Not to mention the Heat were arguably deeper than the Spurs.</div>If the defensive player of the year can't guard Wade who can? Bowen is the perfect player to put on Wade. Also Spurs>Pistons. The pistons just matched up real well with the Spurs. Something that couldn't be said of the Heat. Damon Jones is too slow to guard Parker and Haslem is too small to guard Duncan. The Heats weaknesses on defense would show against the spurs. Duncan does more on defense than Shaq so Duncan would win that matchup.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the defensive player of the year can't guard Wade who can? Bowen is the perfect player to put on Wade. Also Spurs>Pistons. The pistons just matched up real well with the Spurs. Something that couldn't be said of the Heat. Damon Jones is too slow to guard Parker and Haslem is too small to guard Duncan. The Heats weaknesses on defense would show against the spurs. Duncan does more on defense than Shaq so Duncan would win that matchup.</div>Beat me to it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 22 2006, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is still more efficient and ealier on you said he wasn't.</div>I still feel Wade is more efficient. And if you need more proof, Wade is more efficient per 48min according to NBA.com. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If the defensive player of the year can't guard Wade who can? Bowen is the perfect player to put on Wade. Also Spurs>Pistons. The pistons just matched up real well with the Spurs. Something that couldn't be said of the Heat. Damon Jones is too slow to guard Parker and Haslem is too small to guard Duncan. The Heats weaknesses on defense would show against the spurs. Duncan does more on defense than Shaq so Duncan would win that matchup.</div>Bowen is not nearly ahtletic enough to guard Wade,a dn since Wade doesn't shoot many jumpshots, he would just run by Bowen all day. Ron Artest IMO would be a far better matchup. The Pistons are almost exactly like the Spurs, and the Fianls series went down to last quarter. Duncan doesn't do more on defense than Shaq, they are about eqaul there (last year Shaq averaged more RPG while Duncan averaged more BPG). Last year Parker couldn't shoot the outside jumper, and he wouldn't have been able to score in paint against Shaq, Zo and Haslem. Heat were a good defensive team last year, with Damon on Parker, Wade on Ginobli, Eddie Jones on Bowen, Shaq/Halsem on Duncan, and Shaq/Haslem on Nesterovic. And once again, my point was that Wade brought Pistons to 7 games, a team that was far better than LA ever faced in the 3 peat. And if it wasn't for Wade getting injured, they would have won that series. In the Finals, it would have been a tossup (teams split season series 1-1, and I feel they matched up very well).
Nitro, no offense but you're opinion doesn't mean jack <Censored>. John hollinger's stats take everything into count, nba.com's statistics are flawed.Remember Hollinger is a wade homer so there is no reason for him to put kobe over wade unless it's the truth.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 23 2006, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I still feel Wade is more efficient. And if you need more proof, Wade is more efficient per 48min according to NBA.com. Bowen is not nearly ahtletic enough to guard Wade,a dn since Wade doesn't shoot many jumpshots, he would just run by Bowen all day. Ron Artest IMO would be a far better matchup. The Pistons are almost exactly like the Spurs, and the Fianls series went down to last quarter. Duncan doesn't do more on defense than Shaq, they are about eqaul there (last year Shaq averaged more RPG while Duncan averaged more BPG). Last year Parker couldn't shoot the outside jumper, and he wouldn't have been able to score in paint against Shaq, Zo and Haslem. Heat were a good defensive team last year, with Damon on Parker, Wade on Ginobli, Eddie Jones on Bowen, Shaq/Halsem on Duncan, and Shaq/Haslem on Nesterovic. And once again, my point was that Wade brought Pistons to 7 games, a team that was far better than LA ever faced in the 3 peat. And if it wasn't for Wade getting injured, they would have won that series. In the Finals, it would have been a tossup (teams split season series 1-1, and I feel they matched up very well).</div>Duncan has always been a better defender than Shaq. He is the second best defensive big man next to Ben Wallace. Bowen not athletic enough? You saw his defense on Dirk? He is all over the place and even if Wade gets by Bowen Duncan will make it hard for Wade to score on. Duncan would force the Heat to double and he kicks it out to the open player. Billups' defense was superb on Parker last year as well. Damon Jones couldn't do that. Rasheed has always done well against Duncan. I could almost say own so I wasn't surprised the Pistons gave spurs problems. The Heats series against the Pistons has nothing to do with the Heats series with the Spurs. The Pistons season and playoff run was a lot harder than the Spurs even though the Spurs were in the tougher conference. The Pistons barely got passed the Pacers. The Pistons finally started playing well in the finals but not well enough to beat the Spurs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 22 2006, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nitro, no offense but you're opinion doesn't mean jack <Censored>. John hollinger's stats take everything into count, nba.com's statistics are flawed.Remember Hollinger is a wade homer so there is no reason for him to put kobe over wade unless it's the truth.</div>Once again, Wade is a main playmaker and his efficiency rank is naturally gonna be lower than Kobe's, who is just a step up from being just a pure scorer. Nontheless, Wade is more efficient, jsut take a look at the stats. Except for the .4 TO's per game more, and Kobe getting those 7 or so PPG more (FG % is 5% less though), Wade is far more efficient. I don't care if Hollinger is a Wade homer or not. Take a look at the stats that mean the most and tell me that Kobe is more efficient. If you do, then you are a huge Kobe homer.
Do you not comprehend simple english? Read the link i gave you.Hollingers job is to write about the nba. I'd rather take someone who dedicates he time to study the nba than a poster on some basketabll site. If you don't believe kobe is more effecient and i reiterate , you're a huge kobe hater.
