of making you're teamates better lame and overused? I find it intresting that when people try to argue that such players as Nash, lebron and wade make their teamates better.In lebron's case that is false, all of them had better seasons without lebron that with him. Lebron is just too amazing and willed his teamates to the playoffs. It's not like his teamates suck and the almighty lebron makes them all better.Wade? What teamates has Wade made "better"? Shaq? Alonzo? Posey? Williams? I really want to find out what teamates Wade makes better.Nash on the otherhand is the only one who does make his teamates better, however that is also overrated. Marion was already an allstar without him, Raja was already balling in Utah. Players like House and Jones get the most help from nash because they get alot of open 3's [ not only from him, from diaw also]. Both of those guys are shooting nicely from the arc [i've noticed on fast breaks suns sometimes shoot 3's, i've always wondered why. There good at it i know, but isn't the point of a fastbreak is to get an easy 2?] :focus: Anyways discuss. I find this issue very annoying because it pops up alot.
I would say Point Guards are the biggest influence on making teammates better. Also big men that demand double teams make their teammates better if they are good in passing out of one. Kidd, Nash, Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Wade, and Shaq are the ones I think make their teammates better the most. For anyone that watches the Heat, Wade does make his teammates better. In particular Jason Williams and Udanis Haslem. The main thing is making your teammates more efficient shooting wise. Point totals don't tell the whole story.
I just think the word is flung around too much and is used to hype up some players and discredit others.Nash for example does not make marion better, nor does he makes Raja bell better. Nor did he make Amare stoudemire better. The people who own when playing with nash are the shooters, like James jones. He obviously did help those guys in a way but not as some people like to think.This is how i put it, you only get the tag of making you're teamates better if when you attract defense and you pass they can score.All in all, the word is overrated because bias homers would say their favourite player makes their teamates better. True suns fans see that nash's influence is veeeeeeeery big but is overrated by the media.
Nash made Amare a top 5 player. Amare depends on Nash on the pick and roll. Marion depends on Nash for the outlet pass on fastbreaks and open 3 pointers. Bell is shooting a career high from 3 point range. The drive and dish is how Nash makes them better instead of them having to create for themself.
I'm not saying Nash has no effect in making his teamates better, far from it. But his effect on his team is overrated vastly.Marion was already an established star. Now whenever he plays well it's because Nash makes him better. It even got to the stage where some people were claming Nash had as much of a part of amare's 50 point outing than Amare did. What king of garbage is that? Amare put up the 50, not nash.Nash makes scrubs like James jones look better but on the others like Marion and amare is overrated. Amare was going to blow out with or without Nash, he may not have done it last season but it was coming. Media made it seem like Nash was the reason why Amare was going crazy, amare upped his game also. It's sickinening and it's happening again [with marion's play]. Marion in 2003-2004 was a beast, who did he have? Marbury got traded. It's not as if Nash makes Marion look good and without him he's a scrub like some people/writers hint at.I dislike the term of making teamates better because it's overused and is used in wrong situations to make a certain player look good. The term has lost all value to me. If the media likes a certain player they will try to hype that player in any way and in Nash's situation, it's his "ability to make the players play at a higher level"edit: Ah i forgot, you go for dallas. You're obviously going to be baised. I see.edit: I'll make you see the light about this issue. Chris mihm this season is averaging a career high in points. He's field goal percentage has alo gone higher in his 2 seasons with the lakers. Brian Cook is shooting amazingly from the field and 3 point land. Lamar odom is shooting a career high in behind the arc and his fg% is a career high.See if i were to sit here and say " there playing and shooting well because of kobe" you would call me a homer. However with kobe on the field these players get better looks because the defense are focussed on kobe. Yet kobe gets dissed for not making his teamates better.That is why i think the word is useless. Because it's been used in wrong conontations latley. It's also used for players who the media loves and adores.
I Agree with you that Lebron doesn't make his teammates better. He carries that team. Wade, I am not going to talk about because I feel I am going to be biased and just make myself look dumb.Nash, deffinately makes players around him better. But it depends on how much. Amare, and Marion have improved from playing with them. Just compare there game now and a couple years back. Pretty big different change if you ask me.
When i say " he does not make his temates better" that doesn't mean he doesn,t , full stop. Lebron being on the court makes his teamates better.
Not all players prescence make their teammates better. I could argue some players make their teammates worse.
Well when i say a player makes his teammates better, i mean that he doesn't expose their weaknesses. He gets them the ball in the spots where they are comfortable and make the least amount of mistakes. He makes the game easier for them (i.e. what i just mentioned, drawing double teams, etc.). So by my definition, only Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, LeBron James and Shaq make their teammates better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 31 2006, 05:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would say Point Guards are the biggest influence on making teammates better. Also big men that demand double teams make their teammates better if they are good in passing out of one. Kidd, Nash, Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Wade, and Shaq are the ones I think make their teammates better the most. For anyone that watches the Heat, Wade does make his teammates better. In particular Jason Williams and Udanis Haslem. The main thing is making your teammates more efficient shooting wise. Point totals don't tell the whole story.</div>I would have to agree they are definetly the leaders of their team usually and basically the offense is run by them and if you have a good PG most likely you have a good team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 1 2006, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well go on and explain. I know who you think off and i have the facts to show it to be false.</div>Stackhouse, Van Horn, and Darrell Armstrong on the mavs are 3 players that do this. Kobe holding the ball for too long hurts the team. Iverson same thing. So when you say Iverson and Kobe aren't getting enough help it could also be said that the players around them aren't getting the ball enough to get in a good rhythm. Mike James and Antoine Walker are 2 more.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 31 2006, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stackhouse, Van Horn, and Darrell Armstrong on the mavs are 3 players that do this. Kobe holding the ball for too long hurts the team. Iverson same thing. So when you say Iverson and Kobe aren't getting enough help it could also be said that the players around them aren't getting the ball enough to get in a good rhythm. Mike James and Antoine Walker are 2 more.</div>The only teammate capable of helping Iverson on a consistent basis that can create his own shot is Webber. Korver needs Iverson to set him up for buckets. Everybody else (aside from Salmons, who is a bigger "ballhog" than Iverson) isn't aggressive enough. They get the ball, but they don't look to score. That's their fault, and they have said it numerous times.Also, this year Iverson doesn't dribble as much as he used to. There are always possessions where he'll decide to take the shot himself, but overall he isn't the "ballhog" he used to be. Hell, he'd be up there with Nash in assists if Dalembert could catch the basketball.Kobe's teammates are the same way. All superstars need to be selfish, but they also need to trust their teammates. Kobe will learn that in time. How long did it take Jordan to learn to trust his teammates? Iverson?The +/- stats for when Kobe and Iverson are on/off the floor for their team clearly show that they do indeed make their teammates and their teams better.
That's because it is either them or a scrub shooting guard behind them. Every star in the league has +/- in favor of them if they don't have a decent backup. Like if you replace Iverson with any of the other star point guards except Baron Davis, Marbury, and Francis the team would play better. That is just my theory. Take it or leave it.
Basketball is a simple game, I think NBA fans on forums make too big of a deal out of a lot of things.
^Isn't that the point?Anyways... I think players that can attract defence and pass it out to an open player don't make them better, just make the game easier for them.You don't get better with a good player on your team, it's just easier for you.Did I just repeat what I just just said?
Mavsfan about Kobe- Odom shooting a career high in field goal percenatge and 3 point percentage- Cook also shooting a career high in field goal and 3 point percentag- Mihm's best season interms of field goal percentage was with kobe last season, this season his shooting higher with the lakers than any other team his played with- Kwame brown shooting a career high in field goal percentageCould it be that kobe simply being on the court makes it easier for these players to do their thing? Because they've said that themselves, defenses focus on kobe so much that it makes it easier for them. Stats prove it.
If the superstar can't pass well enough or chooses not to pass that could hurt the other teammates. Other teammates aren't getting enough touches and that can frustrate them to be selfish also.
You also don't want to waste your talent. If you're a superstar who;s a good shooter, then by golly SHOOT!
Yeah Kobe's strength is shooting but if he isn't passing, he isn't making his teammates better unless he moves alot without the ball.
