I guess that is my point . .. if "every college player has to retool their release" then is looking at their college shooting percentage an accurate way to determine who the better shooter in the NBA will be? Because that is what is being argued . . .
The point is, though, that Bayless can do Curry's greatest strength (shooting) nearly as well. Curry might be a bit better, but it's not a wide gulf. Perimeter shooting was also a strength for Bayless coming into the NBA. There is a pretty wide gulf between them in ability to get to the hoop and finish. In addition, Bayless was considered a very good defensive prospect, while Curry is considered sub-par defensively. Bayless' greatest question mark (distributing) is also a major question mark for Curry. That's why I say Curry is basically an inferior version of Bayless. He's also a combo guard with questionable ability to run the point, but with major deficits in defense and slashing and only a small advantage in shooting.
BaH!!!! JB did shoot way more layups and drove to the lane a lot more, which would make his FG% look better. But you cant argue with 3pt percentage. Your arguments are playing with my emotions smokey
I disagree. The two are very different players and I am willing to bet that their strength will continue to show them as such in the Pros. I think that Bayless is the superior prospect - no arguments there - but I think that the gulf between them in their abilities will widen in the NBA - Curry's shooting form is already fantastic and he has a quick release and will continue to shoot lights out in the NBA. JB has to rebuild his shot to be successful in the NBA as a long-range shooter - something he might be able to do. On the other hand - JB made his living in College going to the line - his FT rate was an astonishing 59% with Curry at the 24%. Yet, Curry had a higher TS% than JB - telling you without any doubt that he is a much better shooter. (In his 2nd year he took almost 3 times as many 3s as JB did). Even in college JB's lower percentage on long ball came when he was given space to take the shot - because you had to make sure he does not attack the rim if you get too close to him before he makes his move. Curry on the other hand was defended for the jump-shot - he is not, nor will he ever be able to attack the rim the way JB can - so his jumper was contested a lot more. These two are as different as can be - for combo guards - which they both are. I see Curry as a Steve Blake type - great shooter, not so good attacking the rim. If Curry and JB are the same - than Blake and JB are the same - but I do not see them as such.
But both those things will continue to hold true. Bayless will force more space due to his ability to slash and defenders will continue to play Curry tighter. Functionally, they're likely to continue to be similarly dangerous outside shooters. I don't agree with your Curry/Blake comparison. Both are good shooters and weak slashers. But Blake is better at running the point. He's a classic point guard, just not a very good one. Curry is a combo guard.
I doubt that, Outlaw to NJ for 11, then another package with future picks, money, or a bad contract might do the trick. I would love to trade Blake/Bayless for Nash (we can absorb his contract) and trade Outlaw and ? up to get Curry. Nash/Curry Roy/Fernandez Webster/Batum Aldridge/Mcdyess Oden/Pryzbilla championship potential! you can say whatever you want about defense, but we do have four legit defensive post players behind our perimeter defenders (who would need to improve). As Nash leaves or retires (maybe even in a year) we can distribute more minutes to Rudy and Curry, and bring over Koponen, Beabois, etc for scraps.
Bayless is tough to evaluate. His season is divided between fits and starts of garbage time for 39 of his 53 games and he looked fucking god awful in those 5-8 minutes bouts. But then you look at that fourteen game stint between the New Jersey game and the all-star break where he shot 48% from the floor, shot 38% on threes and averaged an ungodly 4 FTAs per game in 17-18 minutes. while posting a decent 2.8 Assists and a not-so-good 1.5 turnovers per game. I think the promise of a better player is there, it's just going to take a consistent role and some growing pains. If this team can live with the inevitable growth curve and as long as Bayless can provide more good than bad when he's on the court (well, maybe a lot more good than bad) I think he's still got a good shot at being this team's starter in another year to year and a half.
So doesn't it also cloud the real picture on Bayless? Bayless was a PG in highschool, and started that way in college until somoene got hurt. He then played an unfamiliar possition the rest of his college year. then in the NBA, he was asked to change yet again. Taking Curry's career numbers in college .466 field, .411 3pt%, .875 FT compared again to Bayless .458 field, .407 3pt%, .839 FT It still isn't really that much better. He was older and played in a much weaker conference as well.
This year, running the point - Curry's assist% was 40.1 - which is fantastic... Blake, in college was consistently around the 36 mark...
Bayless' defenders were sagging off of him majorly in his college career, and he had a much better supporting cast, so most of his perimeter shots were wide open. Again, much of his game was inside (because he was/is so athletic compared to the competition) but it hasn't worked in the pros as well because a lot of guys have more comparable athleticism (though Bayless is still impressive). Curry is shooting the outside jumper as his main weapon, with no good teammates, and is smothered every damn shot he takes. He runs around and works hard to get open (ala Rudy) and knows how to run of screens fantastic. The real question is if Roy will be able to have better vision and reward cutters. If so a Rudy/Curry combo beside him is fantastic, if not neither of them would especially succeed. Roy(33)/Koponen(12) (both 6'5) Rudy(25)/Curry(25) could actually make a lot of sense long-term.
Stephen Curry assist numbers As a freshman 2.8 As a sophomore 2.9 As a junior 5.6 Overall 3.8 Jerryd Bayless assist numbers As a freshman 4.0 In a tougher conference. Again I will ask.....How is Curry 10x the passer Bayless is?
I am not sure what you are arguing about - Curry is simply a better shooter - and he shoots a much higher volume as well. Their mechanics are different and when they were both playing as none-PG's, Curry shot a lot more jumpers, a lot more contested jumpers - and yet his percentages were higher. JB is much better at driving, getting to the FT line and defense - but he will never be confused for a designated shooter.
that's a very numbers based perspective but completely ignores how the spacing of the defense affects the rest of the players on the floor. Maybe their numbers would continue to look the same, but that spacing is very valuable for a playmaker like Roy, and for big guys like Aldridge and Oden to get single coverage in the post. Look at the spurs over the years, why do you think teams have been so reluctant to double Manu, Parker, or Duncan and they've had these open spaces to work with? It sure as hell isn't because they've had a bunch of guys like Bayless you could sag off of. With Pritchard coming from there I don't think it's a huge coincidence that he likes having other shooters on this team. Blake is not a classic PG, outside of 1 quarter this whole season he never created anything for anyone on the team. Being a classic PG is not sitting in the corner waiting the shoot 90% of the time on the floor, being totally inept on the break, and not being able to run a pick n roll or make an entry pass. Blake has high school PG skills and athleticism, with a pro height and shot.
Somewhat similiar statistics MM, but not similiar situations IMO....The stats I have differ from yours. I pulled them off Draft Express... Bayless 35.7 minutes - 48.9% 2pFG on 234 att - 40.7% 3pFG on 144 att - 4 Apg - 1 Spg - 3 TOpg Curry 33.7 minutes - 51.9% 2pFG on 350 att - 38.7% 3pFG on 336 att - 5.6 Apg - 2.5 Spg - 3.7 TOpg Surprisingly to me, Curry played less minutes than Bayless did in his college year, but there is no doubt that Curry was THE major scorer and catalyst for Davidson (20.2 2\3 att per game); Bayless had 12.6 2\3 att per game in comparison.... Curry shot almost over 200 more 3pt FG and 116 more 2pt FG for the season...more attempts...the defacto offensive focal point of team and main target to stop for defenders...means fewer quality shots as a result, AND he played PG this year and dished out 5.6 Apg with an \TO ratio of 1,50 (Bayless was 1.38 in his sole college season)...All that being said his numbers look really good IMO, and compare more favorable than Bayless' college numbers.... Other interesting stats...Approximately 39.7% of Curry's points per game were from 3pt FG, 37.6% from 2pt FG & 22.6% from FT; Bayless by comparison was 30% from 3pt FG, 38% from 2pt FG & 31% from FT Points per possession.....Curry rated 1.05, Bayless rated 1.04...very similiar So both of these guys are close IMO...I think Bayless will likely be better at getting to the rim and scoring...He seemed to be able to get into the key often when I saw him....however he hasn't shown the ability to finish at a high enough success rate in the NBA yet (but I think he will)...more FT attempts I could see as well.....Curry on the other hand is a better outside shooter (for whatever reason this was a major achilles heel for Byaless last season) and IMO has shown the ability to be a better distributor as a PG than Bayless, at least at the college level which I found surprising.... I see...sort of....two sides of the same coin here....and I would be happy to have both of them on this team...I thnk having a guard that can break down defenders and get to the rim and open up opportunities for himself, but more importantly for others is VERY important in the NBA....but I also beleive that POR needs another scorer who can play effectively off of Roy & LA and help take on the scoring load off of them, which Curry seems to fit in better... I think a combination of both of them would be great, with either able to play PG, Curry able to take on that scoring role when needed...I wouldn't be opposed to POR trading up for Curry at all quite frankly, let Bayless & Curry fight it out and see which one emegres 2-3 years from now as the starter.... http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Stephen-Curry-1170/stats/ http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jerryd-Bayless-1067/stats/
Curry played with a PG his first two years so you really have to eliminate them from that little look. The comparison is really 5.6 to 4.0.
If Curry drops to 24, then Portland should snag him. They should trade away anything to get him, though. He isn't worth it. IMHO, not one player in this whole draft is worth trading anyone for. Not even Sergio.
