For a moment, and for sake of this discussion, let's just assume that Portland could manufacture a trade that would land them Rubio (i.e. Outlaw and Rodriguez to NY for #8 and Jeffries --> #8 and Fernandez for #2) I've heard a number of fans and analysts frown on adding Rubio, stating that this team needs experience and not another project, regardless of how much potential the project has. This really wouldn't be an issue though. We'd still have Blake and Bayless (assuming we could attain Ricky without giving those two up; however even if we couldn't there are a multitude of ways to grab back some experience via future trades or free agency). It's not like we're handing the keys over to a kid with a driver's permit and taking a nap while we drive cross-country. He can sit back and have the role Bayless had last year. The real issue is two-fold for me. Will Ricky Rubio mesh well with our core and our coach? Is he that much better than other guards that would be less expensive to attain? First, the Coach Nate factor. I would think that Nate would love Ricky's length and toughness. It's safe to say that Rubio has the tools to be an above average defender in this league. Ricky did well in the Olympics of causing havoc in the slower-paced half court sets. I don't see an issue here. I get the feeling that Sarge would trust Ricky's decision making. It's his shooting that would be the biggest concern. However, this is way forgivable to me. So, I think Portland's one of the more perfect places for him to develop and play in a system that he could excel in. Where I have a difficult time is justifying the cost it's going to take to get him. Outlaw, Rodriguez, Fernandez (or Bayless or Batum), the #8, and a bad contract, such as Jeffries, seems very real to me. Is he the next Stockton? Will he be more of the Cheeks' variety? And what about our Rudy, Bayless or Batum? We don't know what we're truly giving up with them. It sort of comes down to Ricky Rubio vs: - Jonny Flynn - Stephen Curry - Mike Conley - Ramon Sessions Yes there are other young point guards, but these are the ones that I like the best. I just don't know if Rubio will be THAT much better, if at all, than some of our other less expensive options. What do you think?
Rudy, Outlaw and Sergio for Lil' Ricky Rubio???? Crazy talk.. Rubio is way too unproven to trade up for.. if he falls to you in the later stages of the lottery - great.. but an unproven 18 year old PG is not someone you target and give up 3 quality rotation players for.
I have not seen enough of Jonny Flynn so I will exclude him from the discussion. My gut feeling is that Rubio will never be the shooter that Curry will be - but he will be a better scorer going to the rim and a better defender. I think that Rubio and Sessions will be very similar on offense - but I still think that Rubio will have the advantage on defense. Conley is probably the only one that could be as good on both ends of the floor - so I am not really sure what to think of him. If memory serves, however, Conley is a little smaller - so that could be something to consider.
What if we were talking about an unproven kid named John Stockton who decided to skip out on his commitment to Gonzaga and go straight to the NBA?
Personally, mine isn't in his personal value, though I agree with almost all of your points (I don't know if Nate would hand the keys to a rookie PG, no matter HOW good...) It's his value to the team. Nate's probably not going to change his offense anytime soon, unless we get a new star player or two. So it's probably going to be a lot of pick-and-pops (that I hope could turn into P&Rs soon), a lot of iso to Roy when in trouble, and trying to get maximum value out of LMA and Oden, who are here to stay. To me, that doesn't mean another scorer. That doesn't mean another 3pt shooter. It means someone who is good at running the P&R, has a passer's mentality, and can keep his bigs involved. LMA sprints down the court after almost every defensive possession, and averaged about 1.2 dunks per game. That MUST go up. Greg can set a monster pick and has (had?) the athleticism to become a monster in the P&R game. He rarely got the ball, and it wasn't b/c the D sagged into a double-team on him. It was b/c he wasn't passed it. Rubio, for all of the criticism (legit, maybe) of him being skinny, or turnover-prone, or unathletic, is a heavily-lauded wizard at getting the ball to his teammates in position to score. That makes him really valuable to me.
Listen, Rubio is faaaaar from a sure thing as an NBA starter.. when you start thinking he may someday be the greatest PG that ever played (Stockton)..then you're losing some credibility. Ricky Rubio is a PROJECT.. any team that drafts him should be prepared to watch him struggle in the NBA for the better part of the next 3 years (and that is being kind).. do the Blazers seem like they are in that position?
Define "unproven". Either (a) everyone in this draft is unproven, so you would never trade up for anyone or (b) playing in the Olympics and in the second-best pro league in the world counts as being "unproven" whereas playing against a much lower caliber of player in American Colleges counts as "proven" If (b), then that's moronic.
Rubio averaged 10 pts and like 4 assists in the Euro League.. and I would argue that "the 2nd best league in the world" part is meaningless.. .. the NBA is way different from all the Euro Leagues.. NCAA is played in a similar fashion as the NBA.. you can generally tell if a college player can translate to the pros.. while the Euro's are a total crapshoot. Rubio is not worth trading up for.
Flynn is phenomenal. He exudes toughness (mental and physical). He reminds me of Kyle Lowry but with a much better offensive game. He single-handedly took Syracuse to the Big East Title and got them deep into the tourney this year. He's on the smallish size side so that would be my main concern, but to me, he's what Brandon Roy was coming out. Everyone knocked Brandon for not being athletic enough, just like people will knock Flynn for being a 6-footer. But, like Brandon, I get the feeling that Jonny's other skills and drive will more than make up for his size. Dude is going to be a very very good starter for someone's team eventually. I hope it's mine if we can't get Rubio.
Right. I hear ya. But could say a Mike Conley get you the same results, or near to it, and the price be a lot less expensive?
Did you watch the Olympics? I don't recall if Ricky Rubio started, but if he didn't, it wasn't that he couldn't. He played starter minutes on a team that nearly beat a very, very good ball club. The question isn't whether he's a starter, but whether he's going to be one of the better starters in our league. And really. Isn't it reasonable that you're losing credibility by not analyzing how good he will become? Will there never be another John Stockton-esque player again? What was your thoughts on Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, or Lebron James? And really how is it different? Actually with the amount of assets Pritchard has accumulated, we are in that position, as I thought I pointed out in my OP.
I'd a lot rather send Bayless/Sergio to NY and Outlaw/#8 to Memphis than trade Rudy at any cost. ESPECIALLY if we're getting Rubio (Rudy could help a lot).
I suppose Pritchard's been wasting his time acquiring the rights to Sergio, Rudy, Nicolas, and Joel Freeland. I suppose if you don't know what the hell you're doing, it's a crapshoot. Out of curiosity, I'd love to know who you would've picked in place of all the Euros drafted in the last ... say ... 8 years.
Rubio scored 8 pts on 1-4 shooting with 3 assists and 4 TO's against the USA. like my boy Jason Quick - I am "underwhelmed".
Listen, to what I am saying.. if Rubio fell to # 24 - where we drafted Rudy Fernandez - one of the greatest Euro players in the past decade... I would love to draft him. But trading 3 quality - proven NBA players for the chance to draft him is complete nonsense and KP would never do it.
Memphis might entertain Mike Conley for the #8 and Outlaw, but I doubt they'd move Ricky Rubio for that.
