Claver is Portland's Pick (MERGED)

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by RudyFor3, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I don't know what specifically Pritchard's thought process and research were, but I think it's ridiculous to allege that Pritchard didn't bother putting any effort or thought into what he does for a living, a job that he's shown himself to be very good at.

    ESPN's international basketball analyst said that Claver is a lottery talent. So it would seem to me that Pritchard decided to make an investment...instead of taking a player with late first round talent available now, take a player with lottery talent available in a few years. The Blazers will still want talent a few years from now. It's not like anyone who doesn't help the team next season has no value to the franchise.
     
  2. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,403
    Likes Received:
    6,325
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So, how's the air up on that high horse?

    Why do you take it so damn personally every time somebody dares to disagree with the great KP? A few days ago, you were all in favor of adding talent through the draft - now not doing so is OK. I don't get it.

    Edit: OK, so the answer to the last point is that Claver is a "talent". Sorry, but I don't see it. Even if I did, we need a back-up PF next season. If Pendergraph can't fill that role, what then?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  3. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I'm not being sarcastic because you "disagree" with Pritchard. I'm being sarcastic because you're claiming Pritchard didn't even make an effort, simply because he didn't pick your preferred player.

    Surely you can see the difference?

    I want the Blazers to take the philosophy of acquiring as much talent as they can, whether it is in the draft or the free agent market or trade market. I just don't claim to know better than a very good GM who's the best talent at #22.

    And doesn't it say anything that Blair didn't go til the mid-second round? If Pritchard "mailed it in" and blew it on Blair at #22, why didn't another team jump all over Blair in picks 23-30? Did all the GMs "mail it in?"
     
  4. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's some interesting speculation from Dave at Blazersedge.com regarding Claver and how he might be used in a trade

    Could the ultimate goal be to trade the rights to Claver, Outlaw and Blake to get Hinrich and Deng as was rumored at points in the past? If Deng is healthy this could be a pretty damn good consolidation trade. :dunno:
     
  5. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,403
    Likes Received:
    6,325
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why did Ginobli slide? Arenas, Boozer, Ellis, Millsap? Once a player starts to slip, some GMs panic and assume they better not take the player because other teams "obviously know something we don't." The Spurs are one of the best run organizations out there - did *they* screw up drafting him, or did other teams screw up in passing on him?

    Besides, this isn't really about Blair....it is about whether Claver was BPA.
     
  6. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    First of all, Pritchard could have made a mistake and it wouldn't invalidate my point. My point is that it was silly to assume that he didn't put any effort into the pick simply because you disagreed with it.

    Second of all, picking a guy in the middle of the second round is a different proposition from picking him in the first round. The Spurs could have made a reasonable pick and all the other GMs who passed in the first round could have done so reasonably. They aren't mutually exclusive.

    Third, the second round is a crapshoot. There's probably some skill, but a lot more luck. The teams that got really good players in the second round clearly didn't know how good they'd be or else they'd have acquired them earlier to be sure someone else didn't get them.

    Sure. A reasonable question. I just think claiming KP "mailed it in" is unreasonable.
     
  7. alex42083

    alex42083 Thanks Brandon

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    7,789
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Writing about sports
    Location:
    Canby, Wilsonville, Portland
    Small note on Claver..

    http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/06/blazers_select_victor_claver_w.html
     
  8. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,403
    Likes Received:
    6,325
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK, now that I have calmed down, I can see your point. Let me try to coherently explain why I feel that way.

    Blair was widely viewed as a mid-first round pick. I think it safe to say that he fell because of worries over his knees. Fair enough - except that Claver missed extensive time to knee problems in Europe, and his injuries were of more recent vintage than Blair's. Did somebody drop the ball on Claver's health issues? Did Claver even work out for the team? I don't recall his name on any of the reports.

    If the team wasn't concerned over position, why didn't they take Casspi (as rumored)? Everything I have read suggests that he is considered (in Europe) to be the better prospect. He cut his teeth playing for a better team, and he is only 3 months older than Claver. He is also ready to come to the NBA next season. If Outlaw is trade bait and Webster is still struggling to get over his foot injury, that would seem rather relevant.

    Finally, there is the matter of the T'Wolves. Drafting 3 PGs and immediately trading one away? The message is very clear - the 18th pick was up for grabs. In the past, KP would have moved up from 22 to 18 and snared Lawson. Why did he suddenly go passive/conservative?

    I don't expect you to agree with any of this, but at least I have made myself clearer.
     
  9. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    57,599
    Likes Received:
    56,030
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    So, is there a caphold for him that goes onto our books this summer?
     
  10. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of half a million; not exactly a deal breaker -- I'd expect to see Freeland or Kopo's rights waived before Claver's
     
  11. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    57,599
    Likes Received:
    56,030
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    So, net capspace dealings prior to the FA signing period:

    -lose Sergio's --> - $1.5 mil
    -add Claver's --> + $0.5 mil
    -lose Freeland and Kopo --> -$1.6 mil

    Net: -$2.6 mil.

    We add $2.6 mil to our existing capspace, then?
     
  12. MAS RipCity

    MAS RipCity Mercy, Mercy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Portland
    Just saw Claver's youtube highlight mix for the draft and I am even less enamored. Dude isn't even a PF. He is a straight SF..he looks good but we do NOT need another raw SF..Batum fills that role, and we have travis and we have martell and we try to play rudy there sometimes oh year AND we want to sign Hedo...yikes, just yikes.
     
  13. alex42083

    alex42083 Thanks Brandon

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    7,789
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Writing about sports
    Location:
    Canby, Wilsonville, Portland
    Just saw one right now, too. The guy's definitely got some raw skills to work with. He's got that Rudy baseline alley oop dunk down at least.
    Looks like a good shooter, didn't see much of a handle but it's a highlight video. He seems like a taller, but slower poor man's SF version of Rudy.

    I wish we could see this guy over here in less than 3-4 years. That's a hell of a long time.
     
  14. number 10

    number 10 Our Savior

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Portland
    nice move at 1:42
    [video=youtube;alV6DcGBggA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alV6DcGBggA[/video]
     
  15. Crimson the Cat

    Crimson the Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,196
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Batum isn't going to play 48 minutes a game the season after next and there's zero assurances that Webster or Outlaw are going to be who we want filling in for Batum when he's on the bench at that time either.

    What we have currently is one near-lock at small forward. That's it.
     
  16. Blaze01

    Blaze01 JBB JustBBall Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,106
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    48
  17. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    wouldn't that make it obvious that he simply wasn't interested in lawson or that denver made a better offer for the pick? the assumption that in the past kp would have moved up for lawson requires a lot more assumptions to make any sense.
     

Share This Page