Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players Ray Allen is just a shooter. His offense is one dimensional. He gets so many points because he is great at off the dribble shooting, but that's it. And you must not watch VC, as he probably has the sweetest jumpshot in league for a swingman next to T-Mac and Kobe. His range is also even greater than Ray's, not to mention he is a MUCH better player in post/fastbreak/slashing offense. Defensively, neither can brag.Oh, and VC is a better passer and rebounder....
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players come on, nitro. he can do more than shoot. do you honestly think he gets close to 25+ consistently by shooting jumpshots? He is pretty good off the dribble. He's a better defender than VC. Just bc he's a good shooter doesn't mean he's just a shooter. i would say VC relies on his jumpshot as much as ray allen does.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 6 2006, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ray Allen is just a shooter. His offense is one dimensional. He gets so many points because he is great at off the dribble shooting, but that's it. And you must not watch VC, as he probably has the sweetest jumpshot in league for a swingman next to T-Mac and Kobe. His range is also even greater than Ray's, not to mention he is a MUCH better player in post/fastbreak/slashing offense. Defensively, neither can brag.Oh, and VC is a better passer and rebounder....</div>soryy, i just reread your post.. WOW, it's off.VC has a sweeter jumpshot than Ray Allen? that's nonsense, just plain nonsense. Ray has the sweetest jumper in the league. VC has greater range? that's just ridiculous. take the god damned blinders off. :no3:
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players WOAH there. I never said Vince has the jumpshot Ray does. I said one of the ebst for swingman. I do not consider Ray a swingman. Scoring wise, ray is just a shooter. He can get his shot off in nifty ways, but probably 95% of his baskets are off of jumpshots outside of 12-15ft. If you think he can drive to the basket like VC can, you're kidding yourself. If you think he is a better passer than VC, you are kidding yourself. If you think he is more versatile than VC, you are kidding yourself. If you think he is a better rebounder than VC, you are kidding yourself. I will give you Ray on defense, although as I said, neither are above average.But I stills ay VC has just as good, if not better range. And by that I mean taking on average about 2-3 3 pointers about 10ft past 3 point line a game....and nailing them, much like T-Mac.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players I posted a topic back on an old message board- I'm pretty sure it's what Dogma is talking about. It ranks Pierce, Carter and Franchise. Most people said Carter, but I agree, Pierce is better.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 6 2006, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WOAH there. I never said Vince has the jumpshot Ray does. I said one of the ebst for swingman. I do not consider Ray a swingman. Scoring wise, ray is just a shooter. He can get his shot off in nifty ways, but probably 95% of his baskets are off of jumpshots outside of 12-15ft. If you think he can drive to the basket like VC can, you're kidding yourself. If you think he is a better passer than VC, you are kidding yourself. If you think he is more versatile than VC, you are kidding yourself. If you think he is a better rebounder than VC, you are kidding yourself. I will give you Ray on defense, although as I said, neither are above average.But I stills ay VC has just as good, if not better range. And by that I mean taking on average about 2-3 3 pointers about 10ft past 3 point line a game....and nailing them, much like T-Mac.</div> i didn't say Ray was a better passer. You said Ray was JUST a shooter. He's more than that. He is a scorer. Ray has better range on his shot bc he can hit deep shots consistently. Who gives a <Censored> if VC can occasionally hit a 27-footer? what does that do? it's still 3 points, and Ray is the leading 3-point shotter in the league.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players Once again, glorified shooter. Yes he can occasionaly take it to hoop, but 95% of his offense is all jumpshots outside of the paint. Ray is not leading league in 3's, BTW. Raja Bell or Bruce Bowen is. Hell, Ray's FG % is only 44%, which is funny as people say he is such a great shooter and all.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players i was talking about 3-pointers made..Need a link?Are you saying Ray Allen isn't a great shooter? this is just ridiculous. He has easily the purest stroke in the league.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Apr 6 2006, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i was talking about 3-pointers made..Need a link?Are you saying Ray Allen isn't a great shooter? this is just ridiculous. He has easily the purest stroke in the league.</div>What the HELL are you saying?He is the best pure shooter in league, I am not arguing that. But, his FG % isn't amazing, which shows he is pretty much just a jumpshooter. And I was talking about 3pt %, but whatever.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players by saying " Hell, Ray's FG % is only 44%, which is funny as people say he is such a great shooter and all.", you are implying that he's not a good shooter.and i said Ray led in "3's", not "3-point percantage".
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players You said leading 3 point shooter, and that can be taken many different ways. Doesn't matter too much, as we can both agree that he is best pure shooter in league (although you can make a case for Dirk, too). And I didn't mean it for it to be taken that way, but it is funny how people say he is such a great shooter yet isn't anywhere near top 5 in 3 point % or FG %. It just shows that he is basically a glorified shooter and that he can't get any easy baskets outside of the occasional fastbreak. But back on topic, VC is better overall scorer, rebounder, and passer. I do not see how Ray is better, at all.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players Wait- Ray Allen has the purest shot in the league? Have you ever seen Peja play? How about the 3 Point Champ, Dirk?
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players Yeah, I brought up Dirk. But Ray has the purest shot. His form is flawless, and has also won 3 point shootouts. I don't consider Peja purest shooter, as he has really declined over past 2 seasons.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Lefty @ Apr 6 2006, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ray is a better player then Vince. Period.</div>Pass me what your smoking. What has Ray Allen done in his career to label him better than Vince. His shot is better? Vince has a pretty nice shot himself AND he can get into the lane at will. Vince is a top 5 SG in the league. I'm not so sure I can say the same thing about Ray Allen.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players VC is better scorer, rebounder, passer, and playmaker. He can also take over games in a way Ray can't. No contest Vince and I'm done with this arguement.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players First of all, you mentioned Vince has a pretty nice shot himself, WELL, yeah it probably looks nice when ESPN shows him hitting one. Not to mention look who he's playing with, Jason Kidd (top 3 PG in the league), and another top scorer in Richard Jefferson (who got 40 tonight). Yeah Ray has Rashard Lewis, but Jefferson is a better player than Shard. And outside of Shard, Allen doesn't have much.Their shooting percentages are pretty even, but again you can't decide it on that. Why? Ray carries the load in Seattle, and like I mentioned above Vince has Kidd and Jefferson.And Ray Allen is what 3rd on the list for all-time 3 pointers made, approaching 2nd place fast.Ray Allen is the better player. Yeah Vince can dunk, I know you guys are obsessed with that, but just look what Ray has done compared to Vince.Ray Allen > Vince Carter
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Lefty @ Apr 6 2006, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ray Allen > Vince Carter</div> :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA:
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 6 2006, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>VC is better scorer, rebounder, passer, and playmaker. He can also take over games in a way Ray can't. No contest Vince and I'm done with this arguement.</div>How is Vince the better scorer?? Ray is the better shooter, their penetrating games are almost equal. Just because Vince can get up higer and throw it down, doesnt mean hes the better scorer. Vince's jumpshot is streaky, it's nothing compared to Allen's.Ill give you rebounder. But I would hope Vince would be the better rebounder.How is he the better passer? What has he done to be the better passer???Playmaker?? WTF? What does Vince do that makes him the better playmaker. Allen is easily the better playmaker, seeing how Seattle's offense is ran through him.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Lefty @ Apr 7 2006, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How is Vince the better scorer?? Ray is the better shooter, their penetrating games are almost equal. Just because Vince can get up higer and throw it down, doesnt mean hes the better scorer. Vince's jumpshot is streaky, it's nothing compared to Allen's.Ill give you rebounder. But I would hope Vince would be the better rebounder.How is he the better passer? What has he done to be the better passer???Playmaker?? WTF? What does Vince do that makes him the better playmaker. Allen is easily the better playmaker, seeing how Seattle's offense is ran through him.</div>Ray can't drive NEARLY as effective as Vince. Like your precious Kobe, Vince is nearly unstoppable within 5ft of the hoop.Vince is a much better passer. He always hits open players, always has more APG, and his actually court vision is better.NJ's offense also runs through Vince. Ray gets plays called for him. VC showed in Toronto and last year in NJ that he can make plays for himself or setup teammates. Ray doesn't have those skills.
Re: HOOPSWORLD.com's Top 25 players <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 6 2006, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ray can't drive NEARLY as effective as Vince. Like your precious Kobe, Vince is nearly unstoppable within 5ft of the hoop.Vince is a much better passer. He always hits open players, always has more APG, and his actually court vision is better.NJ's offense also runs through Vince. Ray gets plays called for him. VC showed in Toronto and last year in NJ that he can make plays for himself or setup teammates. Ray doesn't have those skills.</div>If Ray can't make plays for him self, how does he always average around 24-25 ppg?!
