Phil and Red.

huevonkiller · Jun 26, 2009

Red Auerbach built a dynasty; he just happened to coach it
Elise Amendola / Associated Press

As mortified as Auerbach would've been to see Phil Jackson pass him in NBA titles, coaching wasn't his strong suit. What he was, really, was the best general manager ever.
Mark Heisler
June 17, 2009
Truth be told, Phil Jackson didn't really care whether he had one more title than Red Auerbach or one fewer, although if he had to choose he'd take "more."

As far as Auerbach was concerned, it may be better he didn't live to see Jackson pass him, just as he didn't live to see the Celtics Dancers.

The Celtics actually waited until Auerbach's death at 89 in 2006 before unveiling a dance troupe, either out of sensitivity to his feelings . . . or knowing someone would ask him about it and he'd sneer at it.

So, no, he wouldn't have liked people asking how it felt to be No. 2 to Jackson, whom Auerbach could remember as that curly-haired hippie on the Knicks' bench.

Before Phil even tied him at nine in 2002, Auerbach growled:

"He's never tried building a team and teaching the fundamentals. When he's gone in there, they've been ready-made for him. It's just a matter of putting his system in there.

"They don't worry about developing players if they're not good enough. They just go get someone else."

That was all true, by the way. It was all Auerbach too.

Jackson embraced basketball as a quest, and meditation as a lifestyle.

Auerbach embraced basketball as a quest, and competition as a lifestyle. Auerbach was right. Jackson had little to do with personnel with the Bulls and Lakers.

On the other hand, as a coach, Jackson is 100 times better than Auerbach was.

Auerbach was actually the greatest general manager in NBA history, building a dynasty that won 11 titles in 13 years in the 1950s and '60s with players such as Bill Russell, Bob Cousy and John Havlicek . . . none of whom he had first crack at.

He won his 12th and 13th titles in the '70s with Dave Cowens, and his 14th, 15th and 16th in the '80s with Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish . . . none of whom he had the first shot at, either.

As a coach, Auerbach was as basic as basic got, with a few simple plays everyone in the league knew backward and forward.

In person, Auerbach played the churl, although if he knew you he became someone else altogether.

The Celtics family was an actual family, with many of the stars remaining close to the hierarchy forever after as an untitled board of directors.

Despite his tyrannical bearing, Auerbach was a great listener who wanted to hear from everyone. In 1974, with the Celtics facing a Game 7 against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and the Milwaukee Bucks, it was Cousy who argued Auerbach and Boston Coach Tommy Heinsohn into double-teaming Abdul-Jabbar, something they didn't like to do at the time but which worked famously.

Auerbach just didn't know many outsiders that well, regarding out-of-town reporters as enemies.

One night in the Spectrum press room, legendary sports journalist George Kiseda of the Philadelphia Bulletin, bantering with Auerbach, challenged him to "do something typical."

Auerbach shot him the finger.

Auerbach was graceless in victory, lighting up his cigars on the bench, and worse in defeat.

In 1987, after the Lakers won Game 4 in Boston Garden on Magic Johnson's "junior, junior skyhook," Auerbach, retired from day-to-day operations, harangued referee Earl Strom all the way to the dressing room, where Strom slammed the door in his face.

It wasn't about manners. It wasn't even about titles.

Atop the all-time list or No. 2, Red was still Red, and no one else can ever be.
Click to expand...

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-heisler-red-auerbach17-2009jun17,0,1644242.column

44Thrilla · Jun 26, 2009

Why would you post such a useless article? He didn't explain why Phil is a better coach, he just said it as if it were fact and didn't even attempt to explain why he feels that way. You can make a case for either guy, but he didn't even try to prove his point.

huevonkiller · Jun 26, 2009

44Thrilla said: ↑

Why would you post such a useless article? He didn't explain why Phil is a better coach, he just said it as if it were fact and didn't even attempt to explain why he feels that way. You can make a case for either guy, but he didn't even try to prove his point.
Click to expand...

It isn't just about coaching, it goes into funny/interesting tangents.

44Thrilla · Jun 26, 2009

In a few ways, they are similar people. Red ran plays that every team knew was coming but couldn't stop, similar to the triangle. And the guy talks about Red being a dick to media, and Phil is known for smart-ass rants in interviews and press conferences. You can't really compare them as coaches because they coached in completely different eras. Red has an edge because he was his own GM, but Phil has the fact that it's way harder to win nowadays than it was in Red's time.

anique_24 · Jun 27, 2009

Phil all the way! lol

Red was an amazing general manager, especially with that trade for Bill Russel, but that the time, they only had 8 teams. Phil won when there were 28(not sure how many teams there were on his bulls days.)-30 teams.

Foxsports had an amazing article comparing the two, try to look it up.

huevonkiller · Jun 27, 2009

anique_24 said: ↑

Phil all the way! lol

Red was an amazing general manager, especially with that trade for Bill Russel, but that the time, they only had 8 teams. Phil won when there were 28(not sure how many teams there were on his bulls days.)-30 teams.

Foxsports had an amazing article comparing the two, try to look it up.
Click to expand...

This one?

Phil vs. Red: Who's the NBA's best coach ever?
by Charley Rosen
Updated: June 18, 2009, 12:55 PM EDT

There are several records that have been established in pro sports that will never be surpassed. In baseball, for example, Cy Young's 511 career wins (1890-1911) and Joe DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak (1941). In basketball, there's Wilt Chamberlain's points-per-game average of 50.4 over the course of the 1961-62 season.

And the NBA's latest unbreakable mark is Phil Jackson coaching his way to 10 championships.

With P.J. finally pulling ahead of Red Auerbach's nine titles, a comparison between these two great coaches is only natural. So here goes:

First off, it has to be noted that Jackson and Auerbach coached in vastly different circumstances.

Auerbach's first title came with the Celtics in 1957 when the NBA had only eight teams — and that number increased only to nine for the duration of his championship run.

Jackson's initial championship came in 1991 when the NBA had 27 teams — and they currently have 30.

All of which means that the odds against winning a title were much greater in P.J.'s era due to the increased competition, as well as the additional playoff rounds.

Also, because the reserve clause in players' contracts prohibited free agency, rosters were much more stable in Auerbach's halycon days. Obviously, this led to more season-to-season continuity and familiarity between the players as well as the players and their coaches. It could be said that the one basic reason for Auerbach's long reign atop the league was that Bill Russell perpetually manned the center position.

If Jackson's title-winning teams weren't hugely affected by free agents either coming or going, he has won his titles with various bigs in the middle — Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley, Shaq and the current tandem of Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol.

In other words, P.J. was forced to continually tinker with his game plan, while for Auerbach it was always business as usual.

The relationship between the referees and the coaches has also drastically altered through the years. It used to be Standard Operating Procedure for coaches to loudly and viciously curse and threaten refs with violence during games, with Auerbach universally conceded to be the worst offender. During Auerbach's early days on the bench technical fouls cost a coach a mere $25. So when an enraged Auerbach would storm into the officials' locker room after a loss and rudely challenge Sid Borgia to fisticuffs, he was only fined $25.

Compare this to the $25,000 penalty Jackson has to pay for questioning the authenticity of referees' calls during an in-game interview.

Moreover, in Auerbach's era the league considered refs to be little more than disposable hirelings, who were paid around $60 per game. Since no security guards were assigned to protect them from irate fans, refs routinely had to take off their belts and swing them so that the flashing buckles would discourage the frenzied courtside multitudes from physically attacking them as they sprinted to their postgame locker rooms.

Jackson, of course, must show much more restraint in his attempts to intimidate refs — which is precisely why he's forced to use the media to give voice to his complaints.

Some say Phil Jackson rode superstar players to all his titles, but Red Auerbach had a franchise cornerstone in Bill Russell in the Celtics' glory days. (Dick Raphael / Getty Images)

The ability of a coach to motivate his players has also evolved since Auerbach sat in the command seat. Back then, no-cut contracts were extremely rare, and player salaries were very low. Bill Russell's initial contract with the Celtics was for only $20,000. Because most players of that era were forced to get summer jobs if their teams failed to win championships, Auerbach could easily motivate them with reminders of dire offseason catastrophes.

But since even the last man on the bench in today's game earns close to $1 million, such strong-arm motivations would be useless. And understanding that the modern players can only motivate themselves, Jackson's leadership has to be much more subtle.

Jackson's critics have claimed that he simply rode to glory on the backs of such extraordinary players as Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. In truth, every championship team in the modern-day history of the league has featured extraordinary players. And the above quartet labored in the NBA for a combined total of 18 years without even sniffing a championship — until Jackson showed them all how to be winners.

Also, a count of current, future and possible Hall-of-Famers is significant. Playing for P.J.'s 10 championship squads were only three guaranteed honorees — Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe — plus Pippen, whose admittance would be a long shot.

The list of Auerbach's Hall-of-Famers contains several players who didn't play major roles — Arnie Risen, Andy Phillip and Clyde Lovellette. But Auerbach's roster of mainstay players enshrined in Springfield includes Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman, Frank Ramsey, John Havlicek, Tommy Heinsohn, K.C. and Sam Jones. Several of Auerbach's ball clubs actually featured five eventual HOFers in the starting lineup.

On a more technical level, the advancements in technology and the increase in the number of assistant coaches (Auerbach had none) have made both scouting and game preparation more sophisticated. The same can be said of between- and in-game adjustments.

All of these factors, of course, were beyond Auerbach's ken. But they do make modern-day coaching a more complicated undertaking.

Auerbach was never an outstanding Xs and Os technician. Instead, his biggest strength was to recognize players who could fit into his up-tempo system. Indeed, he was the first to fully appreciate the full value of such defensive-oriented players as Russell, K.C. Jones, and Satch Sanders. And the key to all of Auerbach's championships was his brilliant utilization of Russell's unique talents to revolutionize the game. Before Russell, blocked shots were accidents. After Russell, shot blocking became an art.

The fact that Auerbach functioned as both coach and general manager enabled him to assemble his rosters to suit his own designs. But if Jackson is a superior Xs and Os coach, to a significant degree he has had to coach the players that are collected by his GM of the moment. This was particularly the case under Jerry Krause in Chicago. That's why P.J. has been stuck with several players who simply couldn't fit into his geometric game plan — the likes of Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Darrell Walker, Travis Knight, Randy Brown and Glen Rice.

Critics have also complained that Jackson, unlike Auerbach, never built a championship team from scratch. This is true, but only because Jackson is a finisher, not a starter. Also, with 20-plus teams in the mix, rising from the bottom to the top is a monumental task that can no longer be accomplished during the career of a single coach.

So, then, who was the better coach, Jackson or Auerbach?

In truth, this is a meaningless question. Each was best suited to succeed in the contemporary NBA culture that prevailed during their respective careers, which means only that each was the best in his own generation.

The accomplishments of both Jackson and Auerbach should therefore be celebrated and cherished on an equal basis.
Click to expand...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9690024/Phil-vs.-Red:-Who's-the-NBA's-best-coach-ever

anique_24 · Jun 27, 2009

Yep! that's the one. lol

Although he clearly favored Phil, he said it was a draw cause of all the Celts fans probably. lol

huevonkiller · Jun 27, 2009

anique_24 said: ↑

Yep! that's the one. lol

Although he clearly favored Phil, he said it was a draw cause of all the Celts fans probably. lol
Click to expand...

No problem.

anique_24 · Jun 27, 2009

Hahaha! yeah!

Log in or Sign up

Phil and Red.

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

anique_24 Active Member

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

anique_24 Active Member

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

anique_24 Active Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Phil and Red.

Moderators

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

anique_24 Active Member

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

anique_24 Active Member

huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

anique_24 Active Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches