you guys can be pissed all you want but this move seems like the Karl Malone move to me...... artest is older and already on the down turn of his career..... they got rid of the young up and coming stud (maybe kobe felt threatened....)... this just makes their window shorter.... plus artest has been a good boy for his contract...now he can do whatever he wants..... you have to ask when will he punch kobe...phil...bynumb or JACK nickelson? his is a tr00 gangsta that hates fakes...kobe....
when has ron artest ever proven he can be a 3rd fiddle guy? last season with the rockets when he was the 3rd option, he was absolutely terrible(though tmac was far less than 100%). it wasn't until tmac shut it down and artest became the 2nd option(who sometimes forced himself in front of yao to take more shots) that he really had any positive impact. phil jackson isn't a god. he can't turn a player into something he's not. ron artest isn't going to have off the court problems. he probably isn't going to go crazy in the locker room or on the court. he's just going to be ron artest. and ron artest is a guy who needs a certain amount of shots to be happy, has poor shot selection, makes questionable(at best) decisions on the court, gets locked into one on one and trash talking battles with players far superior to him, and just in general thinks he is much better than he really is and deserve more touches than he actually does. after 10 years in the nba, all those things aren't just going to magically change.
Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus also agrees: http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=273
Artest is clearly a better defender Minstrel, and his offense should be slightly more efficient here. 54 TS% for the low amount of shots Ariza took is comparable to Artest's production.
He was a clearly better defender in his prime. I definitely think he's not the same caliber of defender he was in Indiana. He's still a quite good defender, but not clearly better than Ariza. The whole point, though, is that Artest is not necessarily willing to take fewer shots. He's always felt he should be a featured offensive player. After actually being one in Houston (after McGrady was out of the picture due to injury), I doubt he's less interested in that. If he forces shots at the expense of shot opportunities for Kobe, Gasol and Bynum, then he's going to adversely affect the offense in place of Ariza, not help.
Ariza is a good team defender, he's mediocre otherwise. I don't see how Artest isn't clearly better to be honest. LA needed a defender for bulky SF types to extend Bryant's career. If they signed Ariza to more or waited longer, they could have lost LO. Artest could take the same shots and be more efficient. He didn't play with a team this good, and he'll be the fourth option teams plan for.
I'm not arguing that they should have signed Ariza for more money or waited. I'm simply saying that I don't think it's clear that this move makes LA significantly better on defense. I agree that Artest is better against stronger opponents. I think he's lost some quickness, though, so he's not as good against quick wings as Ariza is. It's really not a question of whether Artest will be more efficient than he was. It's whether LA will be more or less efficient as a team than last year. If Artest is taking the same percentage of shots as he did before, it'll be more than Ariza took, which means shots are going to be taken from other players. Since LA rationally weighted the offense toward their most efficient options, most of those shots were taken by Kobe, Gasol and Odom. Fewer shots for them and more shots for Artest is not a good development for the LA offense. If it helps LA retain Odom (because Artest cost less than Ariza), then it's a good move, because Odom is quite important to LA's success. But I don't think Artest, himself, represents a major upgrade over Ariza.
Yes Bryant and Roy tearing him up probably gives you doubt about Ron, but Trevor's defensive strengths are redundant on the Lakers. He also is clearly not the defender Artest is even against more favorable matchups. We stole him from Cleveland too which is a plus. :] I'll concur that Artest has to be controlled offensively somewhat, but I don't think he'll be as awful as some are saying. He just can't handle being the #1, #2 option on offense. He should fit in more comfortably into this role, and he's proven he can be more efficient.
We'll have to agree to disagree. He can't handle it, but he wants that role. I don't think he'll be "awful," just that his offensive gifts aren't that high-level, but his over-confidence in his own abilities are quite likely to lead him to take shots outside the system and hurt the Lakers' efficiency a bit.
where are you getting the idea that artest will fit in more comfortably in a lesser offensive role? is there any evidence from artest's basketball career that this would be the case?
So you see, ladies and gentlemen... Upgrading, on a single-player scale, from a pretty good defender to a great defender automatically vaults you into '96 Bulls territory and ensures you a ring for the coming season.
Sacramento? He played with Bibby, Miller, and Martin on the perimeter and was more efficient. In Houston he thought he had to carry Houston after T-Mac went down and did worse. He's better off here, he won't see the same kind of defenses. I'll let you move on then if you feel we won't get anywhere. Anyway, Ariza has missed 110 games in the three years before his contract year. That troubles me a little bit sir, I think this might actually be the less risky move. God bless Trevor though good luck to him. :]
Jordan did quite a bit in the locker room. But hey, believe if you want that Phil is god. Give me two of the top five players in basketball and let's see how I do.
Well we won 65 games already, 81 total and a title... Oh wow LA really sucks, not even close to that level with an upgrade or two.
Simply noting that we hold divergent opinions on that score and neither of us is making a new point. You think Artest is clearly better on defense, today, than Ariza. I don't. Repeating those positions back and forth can be summed up as "We disagree and haven't convinced the other." That's reasonable, though most of Ariza's missed time came in 2007-08 and he showed no ill effects of it last season. Artest has missed a lot of time, too, over the past 4 seasons and will be on the wrong side of 30 next season. So which player is the greater injury risk is hard to say.
It is cool man. What bothers me though is that Ron at least gets starter's minutes. You'd figure Trev could handle the load with the spare energy guy off the bench type of playing time. I do wish him well, he just needs a new agent. :]
When have Phil Jackson teams had more than two options on offense? I guess Tony Kukoc might have counted as option 3, but not really. Look at what happened to the careers of these "inspired" acquisitions to Jackson teams: Glenn Rice Mitch Richmond Karl Malone Gary Payton JR Rider (believe it or not, Rider still had a little bit of a career before he came to the Lakers). Jackson's system is two great players and a bunch of role players. If you're a versatile third player under Jackson, you become a role player or you sit. Ron Harper is actually another example: Jackson sat him in favor of Pete Myers until Harper completely altered his game. This is going to be fun!
Yeah. That team sucked. They only won 56 games (six more than the year before) and LOST in the NBA Finals. What a disgraceful performance on their part! Ed O.
And part of that was due to Karl Malone getting hurt in the WCF. Had he not been hurt, it may well have resulted in a championship.
