My main concern is... (for Toronto)... with Hedo and Bargs locked up for five years, and Calderon at the point... who's going to play defense? who'll rebound, ya know, other than Bosh.
they overpaid, but not by as much as some of you are acting. I think 5 year 40mil is about right. He is still young and does seem to finally be figuring it out. With his size and nice touch, he looks to be a pretty decent player.
Toronto is overpaying, but he did have a much better second half last year than his first half ... you kind of wonder what the hell Bryan Colangelo is building towards though? Is he convinced Bosh is outta there?
I wonder if Bosh really will opt out. The 17+ million he's can earn next year is more than he can earn anywhere else. Anyway, Toronto has a lot of dough invested in a group of talent should consider it a success to finish .500. If Bosh does opt out, they'll have 42 million invested in 7 players After filling some roster spots with guys off the street, they may still have enough to sign a replacement for Bosh. They'll probably give Rickey Davis a 10 million dollar a year contract. Calderon Davis Turkoglu DeRozen Bargnani What a bunch of losers.
Bargs isn't a BAD player but 5/50 million is too much. I mean, I'm sure he'll pan out to be good but this is can't be good news in regard to Bosh and future free agents.
Admittedly, I haven't seen him play as much as you - especially this past season because you didn't make the play-offs. I did watch every game of the Orlando series in 2008, have seen him several times on TV and saw him in person when Portland stomped the Raptors (Oden absolutely killed him in that game, BTW) at the Rose Garden. From what I've seen, I'm not impressed. He can score a bit, but he is an absolutely horrible rebounder. I believe he is the worst rebounding starting 7-footer since Brad Sellers (1987-88 Chicago Bulls) - at last he was in 2007-08. I like my big men to rebound and play defense, as that's what wins basketball games - especially in the post season. Bargnani is exceptionally weak in both of these critical areas. His overall production did go up after the coaching change, which is a good sign, but that was mostly due to a big increase in minutes after the JO trade. His per minute production was only slightly better than it was his rookie season - but at least it was markedly better than his second season, which was absolutely abysmal. I wouldn't label him a total bust, due to his scoring, but a 7-foot starting center that only averages 5 RPG does not deserve a $50 million contract. It's almost like Colangelo is overpaying him to make it seem like he's worth more than he is - just to "mask" the fact that he totally blew that draft. BNM
His individual stats are even more scary. http://www.82games.com/0809/08TOR14.HTM Toronto actually outscored their opponents by 17 points when Bargnani wasn't on the court. With him on the floor, they were outscored by 248 points! Their team defense was especially hurt by his presence - they gave up almost 7 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court (113.1 points per 100 possessions) than with him off the court (106.2 points per 100 possessions). He also attempted 88% of his shots from the outside and only 12% in the paint. I prefer my bigs to be scoring down low. They are higher percentage shots, put you in position to get offensive rebounds and also draw a lot more fouls on the opposition. More evidence that Bargnani is a horrible rebounder - while playing center he averaged 8.5 REB/48 and let his opponent average 13.4 REB/48 - that's a delta of almost -5 REB/48 from the center position. You won't win many games with that kind of rebounding deficit. By comparison, Greg Oden averaged 15.5 REB/48 and held his opponent yo 9.2 REB/48 - a delta of +6.3 REB/48 from the center position. This is the big difference between Bargnani and Oden. Oden as a rookie coming off major knee surgery and multiple lesser injuries, was already a dominant rebounder as a rookie. Bargnani, in his 3rd season is still a WAY, WAY below average rebounder. The difference in rebounding between these two players amounts to a difference of over 11 possessions per 48 minutes. That's a huge and very important difference and my biggest criticism of Bargnani - he costs his team possessions and that costs them wins. BNM
There's been no trolling, and if you expect only Portland fans to post here then you're going to be severely and repeatedly disappointed. Personally, I appreciate the insight that thoughtful fans of other teams can provide, and I don't think it'd be natural for them to not be at least a LITTLE defensive about their teams and players. Ed O.
I wasn't trying to compare Oden and Bargnani's game. They're too radically different players. The point I was trying to make is that you guys get upset when uninformed outside commentators bash Oden without knowing the extenuating circumstances of his career. And you're right to be annoyed with that. I feel like Bargnani consistently gets the same treatment though. Nobody really considers how difficult it was for him to produce when his coach wouldn't give him a defined role and didn't know how to develop his skills. Or that he played the '07-'08 season with a deviated septum that restricted his breathing ability and affected his endurance. The facts speak for themselves. When he was given a clearly defined spot on the starting lineup and a new coach, he flourished. I suppose it's somewhat natural to just glance at the averages and assume he's a bust, when he was drafted before players that have contributed straight out of college. But he was alway more of a long-term project than the players he was drafted ahead of. And I feel like the way he showed up to camp 15 lbs. stronger last summer, won the starting center job over Jermaine O'Neal, and improved the non-offensive aspects of his game (I'll have to look more closely at those statistics, because I felt he was a pretty good defender and shotblocker this year) all warrant more attention than they get. He absolutely has to improve his rebounding and his help defense, but I don't think he's nearly as one-dimensional as people try to portray him as. Right now he's a versatile/unorthodox center that presents a mismatch to any other center and can defend his position on the other end. We've seen lots of the former, but very few players who also have the latter.
There was an error in the original quote, which I have fixed: This sounds like the second most Swirskiest decision I have ever heard of!
From the outside looking in this looks to be an absurd contract, but I really haven't seen the dude play much. Toronto is certainly attempting to become Suns east. Too bad they don't have a Nash to run the show.
I haven't seen anyone mention it ... as the #1 pick, figuring 10% annual raises from his final year rookie deal, a 5 year extension would be $44M. $50M is barely more than a $1M/yr raise, which is pretty modest regardless of productivity.
This is a board for people to discuss the Portland Trailblazers. It's not a board restricted simply to fans of the team. I personally appreciate other team fans coming here and giving their opinion, particularly when we are discussing their team. As far as the topic goes. Seems like an excessive contract to me. No doubt Bargs is talented and worth locking up long term, it just seems like an excessive price for him currently. However, if the Toronto fans are happy with it, who am I to complain about it?
Besides, where else do they have to go? The blazers board is the only one with a reasonable population. OTOH, sometimes the nonblazerfans come in and talk crap and leave. That can be very annoying. I actually feel a little bad for Bargs. He really has some pressure to produce with that type of contract. It's all a gamble to make Bosh stay. If it doesn't work, overpaying both Bargs and Turk could really hurt the franchise long term.
If the speculated cap goes down to $50 mil next season, that's an awful lot (more than 40 percent) of your cap space going to two players, who one made the decision based on the city and the other who hasn't shown to be a franchise player yet.
Shawn Kemp left Seattle for a LOT of $, but it didn't buy him happiness, at all. I'd much rather have $40 Mil and little pressure and $50 Mil and lots of pressure. Really, what's Bargs going to spend the extra $10 Mil on anyway?
Faulty logic. Of course, a player's contract should be based on his productivity, not where he was picked in the draft. Otherwise, Kwame Brown would be locked in at $20 million per year for 6 years by now. Obviously, Byan Colangelo thinks Bargnani has the potential to eventually be worth $10 million per year. Of course, this is the same man that also thought Bargnani had the potential to be the best player in the 2006 NBA draft. So, until Bargnani produces like a player worth $50 million over 5 years, Colangelo's judgement is suspect. BNM
