Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 8 2006, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As I posted in the other thread...Let me put them all into one post. That'll work better.Kobe doesn't make his teammates better. True? No.Kobe is too selfish. True? Not quite.Kobe's individual statistics aren't that impressive to give him the MVP. Is that so? Not sure about that.But wait, so many teams are far, far better than Kobe's Lakers. Really?But Nash makes his players better, every one of them. Does he?Well...that was fun.</div>Where do you get all your stats from? I wanna be like you :yahoo:

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

For the 4,000th time, Steve's teammates are not having career years. The only one that is would be Boris Diaw, and it's because of D'Antoni. Any coach with a brain would put Diaw in the frontcourt, and when D'Antoni did, it put Boris closer to the basket. He's not a PG, which is where the Hawks stuck him.Bell's defense has always been strong. His stats aren't moving. Kurt Thomas isn't having a career year, either. If you are saying that his teammates are having career years, with the small changes in stats (which aren't very noticeable at all), then explain Mihm, Smush, Kwame in the last 12 games, Odom's FG%, and ask yourself why they are all increased.By the way, Nash does run the offense...I watch nearly every single NBA game there is...but if you're telling me he's the MVP for "running the show and getting a bad team into the playoffs" this season, then you might as well give it to Chris Paul instead.Or you can realize that Shawn Marion is a few points and rebounds away from being an MVP candidate himself, which has never really changed in the first place.And you guys talk about Elton Brand being underrated. Marion is just as good, if not better.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

If you watch NBA games then you'd see that Odom, Brown, Mihm are not having career years because of Kobe. Boris Diaw is also not having a career year around Nash, as well as some of his teammates.But Steve Nash does make his teammates better. As I said in the other thread, it's not about getting them better stats, it's simply about making them look better. Steve Nash gets his teammates in situations to score, his 11 assists proving it. Along with those 11 assists, he scores 20 PPG on 50% shooting. His stats are not great, but solid, and he means everything to that Suns team. Yes Shawn Marion is as good as they come, a top 15 player in the NBA, but without Nash, can one honestly say they'd be in a position relatively close to where they are now? That's what "Valuable" has always meant in the NBA.Kobe Bryant is currently 3rd on my list. He is an incredible offensive player, but again, he has lost a few games for the Lakers with seconds remaining, and has been too selfish in some occasions. Is he the best player in the league? Possibly so. However, he isn't the Most Valuable Player in the league.The only reason some of you guys defend Kobe, is due to bias. If I walked up to you and said: What would you take? - Player A) Has the ball 85% of the time, sets his teammates up for open looks, scores in any situation, and leads his team to a contending level. Without him, they'd be a 7th to 10th seed. Player Has the ball 90% of the time, scores at a legendary level, and leads his team to an 8th seed, no contending level whatsoecer. Without him, they are a 13th to 15th seed Anyone would take player A, because leading a team to a contending level is more historic, valuable, and impressive than leading them to a playoff seed. The only thing deterring some people from that, is the fact that Player B is Kobe Bryant

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :yahoo: Real Deal

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>For the 4,000th time, Steve's teammates are not having career years. The only one that is would be Boris Diaw, and it's because of D'Antoni. Any coach with a brain would put Diaw in the frontcourt, and when D'Antoni did, it put Boris closer to the basket. He's not a PG, which is where the Hawks stuck him.Bell's defense has always been strong. His stats aren't moving. Kurt Thomas isn't having a career year, either. If you are saying that his teammates are having career years, with the small changes in stats (which aren't very noticeable at all), then explain Mihm, Smush, Kwame in the last 12 games, Odom's FG%, and ask yourself why they are all increased.By the way, Nash does run the offense...I watch nearly every single NBA game there is...but if you're telling me he's the MVP for "running the show and getting a bad team into the playoffs" this season, then you might as well give it to Chris Paul instead.Or you can realize that Shawn Marion is a few points and rebounds away from being an MVP candidate himself, which has never really changed in the first place.And you guys talk about Elton Brand being underrated. Marion is just as good, if not better.</div>You can say whatever you want, but without Nash there would be no run and gun offense that they have, and if there was, it wouldn't work nealry as efficiently. Suns took a hit from giving away Johnson and Richardson, and then of course no Amare....yet they are averaging only 2PPG less than last year. Marion, House, Jones, etc.... all thrive on nash. Each game they all take turns in getting those pullup 3's and getting hot. Marion gets his numbers off fastbreaks and open 3's setup by Nash, and his rebounds can be attributed to the fast paced game and other centers not getting back ond efense on time. That is why their numbers aren't much increased, but rest assured that all of them get those 20 point games off of Nash's pentration and fastbreak offense.Kobe has done nothing to make his teammates better. Last year he failed as Lakers main playmaker, and that team was much better than this year's. This year Odom has setup the offense. Smush is a good player, who does feed a bit off of Kobe getting double teamed. Other than Smush, not one player on the lakers has improved.Nash, for 2 straight seasons, has taken a pretty average team full of decent role players at best to 50+ win season. Suns are leading league in scoring, only 2PPG lessd than last year which had Amare. His numbers are just as good as Kobe's all around, and he has solidified himself as one of the best pure PG's in the league. Kobe this seasoin has been just fantastic, and you can read the Dirk vs Kobe topics for MVP or whatever and see me defending him. But, I feel taking a lottery team to 8th seed while having 35PPG is less impressive than taking a non-playoff team to 3rd best record in NBA, especially an injury riddled one, all the while averaging 20/11.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Might as well put it this way: name me the player who is going to overshadow Kobe's 2005-2006 performances next year? The year after? How about 10 years from now? Can you be so sure?Name me someone who could take another All-Star and win 50 games while running their offense. I can name you 10 guys: Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Tony Parker, Sam Cassell, Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Mike Bibby...ten guys who are capable of winning 50 games with another All-Star teammate.Are they all MVP candidates? No. About four years ago, Webber led the Kings to the best record in the NBA. Did he get the MVP? Did Bibby? A couple years ago, the Pacers were on top of the world. Was Jermaine the MVP? Tinsley? In 1994, the Sonics were up there. Was Kemp the MVP? Payton?You have to do something that stands out. Nash is a helluva point guard. Marion is a helluva defender. You take one away from the other, and you remove that teammates' MVP status. Why? Because since everyone believes that the team is more important than the individual when it comes to this award, you pretty much rip that player's abilities, rather than avoiding the fact that his team is put together much better.In ten years, someone will ask, "What were Steve's numbers when he won his second MVP?" You'll have to look it up. They'll ask, "What was his best game?" You'll have to look it up. Someone will go, "Who scored more - Nash or Marion?" You'd more than likely would have to check for yourself.However, when someone asks about Kobe Bryant, you'll be able to say, "Oh yeah, man he scored 35 a game...last to do that was Jordan. He dropped 81 points in a game, second to Wilt in 69. He outscored one of the hottest offensive teams in the league, 62 in only 33 minutes. 'That dude' actually found his way into the playoffs without an All-Star teammate, outscoring the 'default' second option by nearly 20 PPG."Then you'll realize that these types of performances are far less common than what Nash is doing with another excellent teammate, and a team of shooters built just for him.That's why Kobe is the 2006 MVP.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

I have to disagree with the Kobe for MVP discussion. Kobe is a terrific player, quite possibly the best player in the league. However, in this league, success is gauged in wins and overall team success, in my opinion. For this same reason, LeBron has entered the MVP picture in my eyes due to his teams recent surge and his excellent play without Illgauskas in the lineup and Hughes out for a large part of the season. LeBron, like Nash and Nowitzki, have led their teams to succesfull seasons, something I believe is more important in terms of sellecting an MVP than individual accolades. There is no debate that Kobe has had the best season based on individual statistics and accomplishments, but I dont think he has done as much for his teams as others in the MVP conversation have. Dont tell me about his 3 championships and the things he did in the past. We are talking about this year, and this year, his team hasnt been as succesfull as others who have their star played in the MVP race. I think Kobe will get some serious consideration because of how he has played this season, but in the end, I dont think he should be the award winner as I think there are more deservant players.Here are my MVP finalists (in no order):BillupsNowitzkiNashBrandKobeLeBronPlayers on the outside looking in:WadeMarionKiddParkerIf you look at my finalists, one thing that stands out is the success of their team, and out of the 6 finalists, I think Kobe has had the least results in terms of team success. I think Kobe and LeBron have had the most impressive seasons in terms of statistics out of the 6 (although I think LeBron's season averages are more significant than Kobe's because they are better all-around). As of now, I cant really pick a definate MVP because its so close, but if I had to pick one, right now it wouldnt be Kobe..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Again, if you guys are going to sit there and tell me that Nash is improving his teammates, then you should say the same about Kobe's. The stats don't lie, do they? Kwame is obviously having a better season and is finally earning at least half of the $7 million he makes. Odom is netting a career-high in FG% in his last two years...funny thing is, those last two years are alongside Kobe Bryant. Chris Mihm's having career numbers in points, boards, assists and FG% as well in the last two seasons. Smush Parker? Career numbers in points, rebounds, assists and FG%.You can't argue numbers. I find it very ironic that you are trying to say that Nash improves his teammates, yet you are avoiding the fact that, statistically, Kobe is doing the same exact thing. Why? Because it only hurts your argument.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Might as well put it this way: name me the player who is going to overshadow Kobe's 2005-2006 performances next year? The year after? How about 10 years from now? Can you be so sure?Name me someone who could take another All-Star and win 50 games while running their offense. I can name you 10 guys: Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Tony Parker, Sam Cassell, Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Mike Bibby...ten guys who are capable of winning 50 games with another All-Star teammate.Are they all MVP candidates? No. About four years ago, Webber led the Kings to the best record in the NBA. Did he get the MVP? Did Bibby? A couple years ago, the Pacers were on top of the world. Was Jermaine the MVP? Tinsley? In 1994, the Sonics were up there. Was Kemp the MVP? Payton?You have to do something that stands out. Nash is a helluva point guard. Marion is a helluva defender. You take one away from the other, and you remove that teammates' MVP status. Why? Because since everyone believes that the team is more important than the individual when it comes to this award, you pretty much rip that player's abilities, rather than avoiding the fact that his team is put together much better.In ten years, someone will ask, "What were Steve's numbers when he won his second MVP?" You'll have to look it up. They'll ask, "What was his best game?" You'll have to look it up. Someone will go, "Who scored more - Nash or Marion?" You'd more than likely would have to check for yourself.However, when someone asks about Kobe Bryant, you'll be able to say, "Oh yeah, man he scored 35 a game...last to do that was Jordan. He dropped 81 points in a game, second to Wilt in 69. He outscored one of the hottest offensive teams in the league, 62 in only 33 minutes. 'That dude' actually found his way into the playoffs without an All-Star teammate, outscoring the 'default' second option by nearly 20 PPG."Then you'll realize that these types of performances are far less common than what Nash is doing with another excellent teammate, and a team of shooters built just for him.That's why Kobe is the 2006 MVP.</div>You cant argue that he has some amazing performance, but in the end, they are all individual accolades. Does scoring 35 points and taking 30+ shots mean that your team is more apt to win the game? I think there are a handful of players you can put on a team like LA and put up terrific numbers as well. Im not saying 81 pts, but I think if you put a healthy T-Mac or someone like Wade or LeBron on the Lakers and give them the green light to shoot 30-35 shots that they can put up great numbers, as well.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You cant argue that he has some amazing performance, but in the end, they are all individual accolades. Does scoring 35 points and taking 30+ shots mean that your team is more apt to win the game? I think there are a handful of players you can put on a team like LA and put up terrific numbers as well. Im not saying 81 pts, but I think if you put a healthy T-Mac or someone like Wade or LeBron on the Lakers and give them the green light to shoot 30-35 shots that they can put up great numbers, as well.</div>You may want to phone Michael Jordan, aka the greatest basketball player on Earth. He had no problem attempting 26 shots a game and averaging 32.6 PPG the year he won his third ring.Kobe shoots 27 times a game for 35 PPG...not 30 times a game. Gotta have your numbers if you want to debate with me.Go ahead and tell me Jordan didn't know how to shoot the ball efficiently.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, if you guys are going to sit there and tell me that Nash is improving his teammates, then you should say the same about Kobe's. The stats don't lie, do they? Kwame is obviously having a better season and is finally earning at least half of the $7 million he makes. Odom is netting a career-high in FG% in his last two years...funny thing is, those last two years are alongside Kobe Bryant. Chris Mihm's having career numbers in points, boards, assists and FG% as well in the last two seasons. Smush Parker? Career numbers in points, rebounds, assists and FG%.You can't argue numbers. I find it very ironic that you are trying to say that Nash improves his teammates, yet you are avoiding the fact that, statistically, Kobe is doing the same exact thing. Why? Because it only hurts your argument.</div>Maybe the reason for Parker's numbers are the fact that he is playing 34 minutes a game while playing an average of just over 11 minutes a game in his previous 3 seasons in the league. Before this season he was averaging 4 ppg, with limited playing time. Do you credit that to Kobe or the playing time? You honestly think that putting him next to Kobe is going to create this increase of stats? How many players in this league can you give 34 minutes to and get those kinds of numbers from? Im pretty sure just about anyone playing professional basketball can score 11 ppg if they are given those minutes, regardless of whether or not Kobe is there...The fact is Kobe takes 27 shots per game, if you give 27 shots to Ray Allen or LeBron or Wade, dont you think they will be able to score 30-35 ppg as well? I think you are overatting the effect Kobe has on teamattes and creditting their limited success to him as opposed to their newfound minutes..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe the reason for Parker's numbers are the fact that he is playing 34 minutes a game while playing an average of just over 11 minutes a game in his previous 3 seasons in the league. Before this season he was averaging 4 ppg, with limited playing time. Do you credit that to Kobe or the playing time? You honestly think that putting him next to Kobe is going to create this increase of stats? How many players in this league can you give 34 minutes to and get those kinds of numbers from? Im pretty sure just about anyone playing professional basketball can score 11 ppg if they are given those minutes, regardless of whether or not Kobe is there...The fact is Kobe takes 27 shots per game, if you give 27 shots to Ray Allen or LeBron or Wade, dont you think they will be able to score 30-35 ppg as well? I think you are overatting the effect Kobe has on teamattes and creditting their limited success to him as opposed to their newfound minutes..</div>So now you may want to step back and look at all the playing time James Jones and Eddie House are getting now...and apply that logic to the Suns.Again, if you're going to look at it that way and play your hand against Kobe, might as well be consistent and play it against Nash as well.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Im pretty sure just about anyone playing professional basketball can score 11 ppg if they are given those minutes, regardless of whether or not Kobe is there...</div>By the way, I could seriously pound this comment into the ground if you'd like, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows that there's a handful of players who get 30 minutes a game and score less than 11 PPG.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Kwame is averaging 6 more minutes per game this year, and is actually averaging less points. Yes he is shooting a higher percentage, but you pair that with him averaging less points, and that actually feeds my argument that Kobe doesn't pass the ball to his teammates enough.As a 2nd option in Miami (Behind Eddie Jones, perhaps tied with Dwayne Wade's role) Lamar Odom averaged more points in less minutes. Again, he is shooting higher FG percentage the past two years, again feeding my argument that when Kobe decides to pass, he makes guys better. However, he simply doesn't do it enough.Chris Mihm is also averaging .6 more PPG game in a minute more. Wow. Kobe sure has made him alot better.And Nash doesn't make his teammates better? Eddie House is averaging a point less than he did last year in Charlotte... In 6 less minutes!! Overall, Nash has made him better than last yearRaja Bell this year, is shooting a career high in FG%, a career high in points. Yes his minutes have increased, but you'd be lying if you said Steve had nothing to do with it.James Jones is averaging 6 more minutes, 5 more points, higher FG% since joining the Suns and playing alongside NashFrom what I just researched, Steve Nash makes his teammates better in superior fashion to Kobe. He also shoots a higher FG%, and has led his team to a better record.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You may want to phone Michael Jordan, aka the greatest basketball player on Earth. He had no problem attempting 26 shots a game and averaging 32.6 PPG the year he won his third ring.Kobe shoots 27 times a game for 35 PPG...not 30 times a game. Gotta have your numbers if you want to debate with me.Go ahead and tell me Jordan didn't know how to shoot the ball efficiently.</div>Once again weve got someone comparing Jordan to Kobe..The fact is Jordan's teams had results in the win column..Not sure if you can debate that..Dont tell me about Kobe's 6 rings, because without Shaq, they dont exist. Another thing you need to look at with Jordan is his tremendous defense which I think we can agree was superior to that of Kobe's. Kobe shot 32 shots the other night vs. Denver (in a loss) with 42 pts.Kobe shot 33 shots last night vs. Phoenix (in a loss) with 51 pts.I think if you give those shots to other players, they can put up the same numbers, thats my point..For example, one player who I mentioned that I think is more deservant, LeBron, scores 32 ppg while taking 23 shots..But what impresses me most about him, which in my mind makes him a better choice, is the 7 rebounds and 6 assists to go with it.You want to compare Kobe to Jordan?How about this, how many players have averaged 30, 7 and 6?Oscar RobertsonJerry West Michael JordanLeBron JamesI think LeBron's overall season averages are more impressive, although Kobe obviously has the edge in terms of individual accomplishments (81 pts, 63 pts)..However, I think the success of LeBron's Cavs makes him a legit candidate..<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So now you may want to step back and look at all the playing time James Jones and Eddie House are getting now...and apply that logic to the Suns.Again, if you're going to look at it that way and play your hand against Kobe, might as well be consistent and play it against Nash as well.By the way, I could seriously pound this comment into the ground if you'd like, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows that there's a handful of players who get 30 minutes a game and score less than 11 PPG.</div>Obviously there are players who are averaging less than 11 with those minutes, what I mean is you can replace Smush with others and get the same output on that team in terms of numbers..All in all, players like Nash and LeBron are more deservant because of how their teams perform, which I think should be one of the most heavily looked at areas when selecting an MVP. Also, Nash has been instrumental at making teamattes better, you cant deny the fact that he has looking at the career numbers players are putting up down there and the high level of play in Phoenix without an all-nba player in Amare..I think LeBron has to be given credit for not letting his team slide in the second half like the past two seasons. Recently he has had his team playing terrific ball without Hughes and Zydrunas Illguaskas..I think both are more deservant than Kobe, and I would even consider putting Nowitzki ahead of him, as well. once again, it all comes back to how the team performed throughout the year and how much that player contributed to that team's success..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

You know what I like about the original post? The guy is a Nuggets fan. He hates the fact that Kobe shoots impossible shots.The Lakers are 2-1 against the Nuggets this season. One of those wins came from Kobe's impossible game-winner over Miller and Najera.Remember this?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bryant welcomed him back with eight of his 33 points in overtime and the go-ahead jumper with 0.6 seconds left as the Lakers posted a 99-97 victory over the Denver Nuggets.</div>Or that the Lakers were 2-2 against them last season...one loss was without Odom, the other loss was with Kobe getting treatments for plantar fasciitis (the same thing Tim Duncan is putting up his career lows with).Or what about two years ago, coming late to the game and sticking that dagger into the Denver Nuggets, like he always does? No need for a quote; the picture tells a thousand words:That's right...you don't hate his impossible shots, you just hate that he makes them. You don't hate that Kobe is in the playoffs right now, you just hate the fact that the Lakers have only 2 less wins total than the Nuggets.It's hate...nothing more.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

iminterested how you guys are saying all this... about the last two years..Marion is a top 10 playerNash top 10and Amare top 10..vs Kobe #1Odom top 30 if hes luckythan we have no1 else in teh top 100's!!! Nash has 10 times the best supporting cast, he has consistent team mates, yeh of course he is going to get all of them assists, but Kobe who is by far the MOST VALUABLE to his team. isnt that the award Most Valuable..?? Nash isnt as valuable as Kobe, yes you say there is no Amare this year, but Suns would still be between 2-5 seed!! With out kobe, the Lakers are the worst tema in the L.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

We are talking about this year. And in this year:Nash: Top 10Marion: Top 10Kobe: Top 10Odom: Top 20Tell me how Odom isn't top 20? Top 25 at the least. And why did we refer back to the "Nuggets" post?And again, in terms of valuabilty, who do you take?Player A) Has the ball 85% of the time, sets his teammates up for open looks, scores in any situation, and leads his team to a contending level. Without him, they'd be a 7th to 10th seed. Player B) Has the ball 90% of the time, scores at a legendary level, and leads his team to an 8th seed, no contending level whatsoever. Without him, they are a 13th to 15th seed Anyone takes Player A. The difference here is that player B is Kobe.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

How do you put one of the most inconsitent players in the NBA, at a top 20?

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']Kwame is averaging 6 more minutes per game this year, and is actually averaging less points. Yes he is shooting a higher percentage, but you pair that with him averaging less points, and that actually feeds my argument that Kobe doesn't pass the ball to his teammates enough.[/quote]Read my posts again. Since Kwame has been put at his natural position and is starting, he is averaging 12 and 8 in those 12 games. He hasn't done that his entire career.[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']As a 2nd option in Miami (Behind Eddie Jones, perhaps tied with Dwayne Wade's role) Lamar Odom averaged more points in less minutes. Again, he is shooting higher FG percentage the past two years, again feeding my argument that when Kobe decides to pass, he makes guys better. However, he simply doesn't do it enough.[/quote]Lamar Odom is the initiator of the triangle offense this year, so that kills your point already. He said it himself, it's not his job to score...which is why Kobe is averaging 20 PPG more. Funny thing is, you have failed to mention that Odom was the first scoring option in Miami. Don't leave out the goods.[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']Chris Mihm is also averaging .6 more PPG game in a minute more. Wow. Kobe sure has made him alot better.[/quote]Ironically, he's still getting career highs in all major categories. And by the way, don't compare this season to last season...since he was a Laker last year as well. In his last two years, Mihm has improved significantly, offensively and defensively. That's my point.[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']And Nash doesn't make his teammates better? Eddie House is averaging a point less than he did last year in Charlotte... In 6 less minutes!! Overall, Nash has made him better than last year.[/quote]Didn't we go over this already?[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']Raja Bell this year, is shooting a career high in FG%, a career high in points. Yes his minutes have increased, but you'd be lying if you said Steve had nothing to do with it.[/quote]Hahaha...that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How would I be lying if I said that? So you can say it about Smush, but I can't say it about Bell? Which is it?[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']James Jones is averaging 6 more minutes, 5 more points, higher FG% since joining the Suns and playing alongside Nash.[/quote]Wow...James Jones is shooting 41%...I'm impressed. Sounds like a Smush Parker situation, huh?[quote name='KMart' post='34378' date='Apr 9 2006, 11:53 AM']From what I just researched, Steve Nash makes his teammates better in superior fashion to Kobe. He also shoots a higher FG%, and has led his team to a better record.[/quote]From all that you said, all I got was this: Nash makes his teammates better because their stats show it, even though they play more minutes per game. Kobe doesn't since they play more minutes per game. :rock:[quote name='KMart' post='34399' date='Apr 9 2006, 12:11 PM']We are talking about this year. And in this year:Nash: Top 10Marion: Top 10Kobe: Top 10Odom: Top 20Tell me how Odom isn't top 20? Top 25 at the least. And why did we refer back to the "Nuggets" post?And again, in terms of valuabilty, who do you take?Player A) Has the ball 85% of the time, sets his teammates up for open looks, scores in any situation, and leads his team to a contending level. Without him, they'd be a 7th to 10th seed. Player B) Has the ball 90% of the time, scores at a legendary level, and leads his team to an 8th seed, no contending level whatsoever. Without him, they are a 13th to 15th seed Anyone takes Player A. The difference here is that player B is Kobe.[/quote]Without Nash, the Suns would still be in the playoffs.Without Kobe, the Lakers are 15th in the West...which would be near the worst in the NBA.You said it yourself. Also...you used the term "legendary" correct? Isn't that what you said Kobe was not being? I'd pick an active legend anyday over "Player A."

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

The fact is he puts up 14 and 9. I think if he played for a team like Phoenix or NJ he would be putting up Marion-like numbers..<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Read my posts again. Since Kwame has been put at his natural position and is starting, he is averaging 12 and 8 in those 12 games. He hasn't done that his entire career.Lamar Odom is the initiator of the triangle offense this year, so that kills your point already. He said it himself, it's not his job to score...which is why Kobe is averaging 20 PPG more. Funny thing is, you have failed to mention that Odom was the first scoring option in Miami. Don't leave out the goods.Ironically, he's still getting career highs in all major categories. And by the way, don't compare this season to last season...since he was a Laker last year as well. In his last two years, Mihm has improved significantly, offensively and defensively. That's my point.Didn't we go over this already?Hahaha...that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How would I be lying if I said that? So you can say it about Smush, but I can't say it about Bell? Which is it?Wow...James Jones is shooting 41%...I'm impressed. Sounds like a Smush Parker situation, huh?From all that you said, all I got was this: Nash makes his teammates better because their stats show it, even though they play more minutes per game. Kobe doesn't since they play more minutes per game. :rock:Without Nash, the Suns would still be in the playoffs.Without Kobe, the Lakers are 15th in the West...which would be near the worst in the NBA.You said it yourself. Also...you used the term "legendary" correct? Isn't that what you said Kobe was not being? I'd pick an active legend anyday over "Player A."</div>Without Nash this team is Marion and a bunch of players who have done nothing in their career (prior to this season)..Thats the difference, Kobe is a legend, but he is not someone who makes the team better. Its really a matter of preferance. If you like to have a winning team, you chose the player who makes their teamattes better and does the things the team needs to win the games. If you like a flashy, high scoring player who can flat-out take over a game, then you pick someone like Kobe, but with that comes a team that doesnt perform as well because they are relying on one player whereas a team like Phoenix gets others involved via Nash's play..