Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

But, we have already justified that Kobe, makes him team-mates just as much better as Nash does.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact is he puts up 14 and 9. I think if he played for a team like Phoenix or NJ he would be putting up Marion-like numbers..</div>He is playing in the REVERSE TRIANGLE OFFENSE. That means he is the point forward, not the small forward, and not the point guard. He is the initiator of the offense. That places him outside of the paint, where his rebounding totals will decrease, and he is asked to pass before scoring, where his PPG will decrease as well. Wow.Pippen averaged around 20 PPG with Jordan...and Lamar Odom is nowhere NEAR Scottie Pippen in terms of offensive production or defensive abilities, nowhere near it. Scottie Pippen led a Bulls team to 55 wins without Jordan, in fact. Odom would never be able to come close to that by himself.If Pippen averaged 20 a game alongside Jordan, Odom is going to average 15 or so alongside Kobe. It's the triangle offense, it's his role...I don't see how it can be explained any better than that.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is playing in the REVERSE TRIANGLE OFFENSE. That means he is the point forward, not the small forward, and not the point guard. He is the initiator of the offense. That places him outside of the paint, where his rebounding totals will decrease, and he is asked to pass before scoring, where his PPG will decrease as well. Wow.Pippen averaged around 20 PPG with Jordan...and Lamar Odom is nowhere NEAR Scottie Pippen in terms of offensive production or defensive abilities, nowhere near it. Scottie Pippen led a Bulls team to 55 wins without Jordan, in fact. Odom would never be able to come close to that by himself.If Pippen averaged 20 a game alongside Jordan, Odom is going to average 15 or so alongside Kobe. It's the triangle offense, it's his role...I don't see how it can be explained any better than that.</div>Doesnt change the fact that he would be putting up those kinds of numbers with a team like Phoenix. Being that you think he is so inconsistent, dont you think this role takes away from his game and production?..Do you think you have the right personell to run the triangle well enough for it to benefit your club?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PureMvp @ Apr 9 2006, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But, we have already justified that Kobe, makes him team-mates just as much better as Nash does.</div>How so? Youre honeslty going to tell me that Kobe has the same effect on his teamattes as someone like Nash does? Thats absolutely rediculous..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Since Kwame has been put in his natural position and is starting, he is averaging career numbers. It's not because of Kobe, you said it yourself.Lamar Odom was not the first option to score. Eddie Jones was their leading scorer that year, and Dwayne Wade did equal damage on the offensive end.Chris Mihm is averaging identical points, less FG%, more TOs. What other categories are there that Kobe effects?And the argument was that Nash meakes his teammates better correct? 5 more points in 6 more minutes, and a higher FG% si making him better isn't it? Actually 5 more points in 6 minutes is a great accomplishmentAnd where do you get that Nash's teammates are playing a load more minutes? Yes Raja Bell is playing more minutes, so that contributes to his improvement. However, Eddie House is playing 6 less minutes, only scoring 1 less point. Isn't that making him better? Yes James Jones plays 6 more minutes, but he scores 5 more points. That's a near point per minute improvementChris Mihm on the other hand, is playing identical minutes and scoring identically. Kwame Brown is playing 6 more minutes and averaging less points. Lamar Odom is the initiator of the triange so he shouldn't score? Scottie Pippen was a 20+ point scorer. While Pippen was much better than Odom, it still kills your argument that the initiator of the triangle cannot score.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact is he puts up 14 and 9. I think if he played for a team like Phoenix or NJ he would be putting up Marion-like numbers..Without Nash this team is Marion and a bunch of players who have done nothing in their career (prior to this season).</div>Uh...and without Kobe, the Lakers are...a bunch of players who have done nothing in their career...ever. Where it's true that they are having better careers, they still suck this year. No other player in the league could take the Lakers into the playoffs, especially if they had to score as much as Bryant. Simple as that.Nash has done nothing compared to what Kobe has done. Individually, he couldn't hold Kobe's jock. As a teammate, he doesn't need to work because he's got one of the best defensive players in Marion (an All-Star, at that), a versatile player in Boris Diaw, and a talented defender in Raja Bell, who has been doing his thing since he was in Utah. Odom is nearly the same player as Diaw, and that's all that needs to be said. Marion is more valuable than the rest of our team, alone.Odom isn't a top 20 player...that's a joke, especially when you watch the guy toss games and miss layups more than anyone in the NBA (which is true). He's been doing that since he was a Clipper...and that has nothing to do with Kobe.Kobe makes them all better, but that doesn't mean they are stars because of it, either.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PureMvp @ Apr 9 2006, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But, we have already justified that Kobe, makes him team-mates just as much better as Nash does.</div>That comes across as downright bias. If you've gotten to the point you think Nash and Kobe are on the same level in terms of making their teammates better, something is wrong

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 9 2006, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Since Kwame has been put in his natural position and is starting, he is averaging career numbers. It's not because of Kobe, you said it yourself.Lamar Odom was not the first option to score. Eddie Jones was their leading scorer that year, and Dwayne Wade did equal damage on the offensive end.Chris Mihm is averaging identical points, less FG%, more TOs. What other categories are there that Kobe effects?And the argument was that Nash meakes his teammates better correct? 5 more points in 6 more minutes, and a higher FG% si making him better isn't it? Actually 5 more points in 6 minutes is a great accomplishmentAnd where do you get that Nash's teammates are playing a load more minutes? Yes Raja Bell is playing more minutes, so that contributes to his improvement. However, Eddie House is playing 6 less minutes, only scoring 1 less point. Isn't that making him better? Yes James Jones plays 6 more minutes, but he scores 5 more points. That's a near point per minute improvementChris Mihm on the other hand, is playing identical minutes and scoring identically. Kwame Brown is playing 6 more minutes and averaging less points. Lamar Odom is the initiator of the triange so he shouldn't score? Scottie Pippen was a 20+ point scorer. While Pippen was much better than Odom, it still kills your argument that the initiator of the triangle cannot score.</div>WOW man.I'm talking about Mihm's seasons with Kobe. He played last year in a Lakers uniform. Why are you comparing those stats?You are judging Kobe by these ridiculous "statements" but you aren't applying them to Nash. Point is, Nash has a team built just for him, with an All-Star and a bunch of shooters. Kobe doesn't have a single shooter on his team, doesn't have an All-Star, and he's got a young team who knows absolutely nothing about the triangle, with a guy who all of you declared a bust throughout his career.Kobe's season has been more impressive. Kobe's impact has been more than that of Nash's. All of you admitted to it...without Bryant, the Lakers are the worst team in the league. Without Nash, the Suns are still a playoff team. Why? Because Marion is nearly an MVP candidate himself....which means Nash isn't doing all the work in PHX...yet Kobe's doing it all in LAL.Winner, winner...chicken dinner. I'm out.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WOW man.I'm talking about Mihm's seasons with Kobe. He played last year in a Lakers uniform. Why are you comparing those stats?You are judging Kobe by these ridiculous "statements" but you aren't applying them to Nash. Point is, Nash has a team built just for him, with an All-Star and a bunch of shooters. Kobe doesn't have a single shooter on his team, doesn't have an All-Star, and he's got a young team who knows absolutely nothing about the triangle, with a guy who all of you declared a bust throughout his career.Kobe's season has been more impressive. Kobe's impact has been more than that of Nash's. All of you admitted to it...without Bryant, the Lakers are the worst team in the league. Without Nash, the Suns are still a playoff team. Why? Because Marion is nearly an MVP candidate himself....which means Nash isn't doing all the work in PHX...yet Kobe's doing it all in LAL.Winner, winner...chicken dinner. I'm out.</div>I disagree, like I have said Kobe's season has been very impressive on an individual standpoint but it clearly hasnt translated into team success. You can say the same thing about KG in Minnesotta. If you take him off that team they are the worst team, he has great numbers as well, but his team isnt succesfull. Whats holding you back from making him an MVP candidate in your eyes after stating your reasons for making Kobe the MVP. Youre basing it on his numbers and instead of saying what he has done to make the team better, youre saying what would happen to the team if he wasnt there. I think there are several people that are more deservant than Kobe, and I dont see him winning the award...Like I said put a healthy T-Mac or someone like Wade or Iverson on that team and they can put up great numbers as well. The fact is he hasnt turned his individual play into team success. At least not enough to warrant and MVP award over the other candidates. I think the statement that he does as much for his team as Nash is absolutely absurd and clearly you need to re-evaluate Kobe and his MVP situation..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

He is 7th-8th seed in the West with his team. The Wizards have a worse record, and they are 5th seed in the East. What more does Kobe have to do?Garnett is already out of the playoffs...again. His individual performances are far from Kobe's. If you don't make the playoffs, you don't deserve the MVP...simple as that. I said it last season about Kobe, and I'll say it this year about Garnett.This is getting too easy. Fact remains: Nash and Marion are both responsible for the Suns' success. Kobe is the only man responsible for putting the Lakers into the playoffs. Kobe's season is 5x more impressive than Nash's...by far more impressive. Nash was the first guard to ever win the award scoring under 20 PPG, and the first player since Bill Walton in 1978 to win it scoring under 20 as well. Everyone says not to break tradition and let a 7th seeded player win the award...but why can we break tradition to let Nash win it last year?Hypocrisy is a terrible thing.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is 7th-8th seed in the West with his team. The Wizards have a worse record, and they are 5th seed in the East. What more does Kobe have to do?Garnett is already out of the playoffs...again. His individual performances are far from Kobe's. If you don't make the playoffs, you don't deserve the MVP...simple as that. I said it last season about Kobe, and I'll say it this year about Garnett.This is getting too easy. Fact remains: Nash and Marion are both responsible for the Suns' success. Kobe is the only man responsible for putting the Lakers into the playoffs. Kobe's season is 5x more impressive than Nash's...by far more impressive. Nash was the first guard to ever win the award scoring under 20 PPG, and the first player since Bill Walton in 1978 to win it scoring under 20 as well. Everyone says not to break tradition and let a 7th seeded player win the award...but why can we break tradition to let Nash win it last year?Hypocrisy is a terrible thing.</div>You can say Marion and Nash were both responsible for the Phoenix success, but how do you explain that Kobe is more deservant than LeBron..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You can say Marion and Nash were both responsible for the Phoenix success, but how do you explain that Kobe is more deservant than LeBron..</div>Are you joking? Do you not believe that LeBron has teammates?Add to that the fact that the Cavs are only 6 games or so ahead of the Lakers in the wins column, with Kobe having a record-setting season, and Kobe edges LeBron for the MVP.Plus, Kobe should also snag that Defensive Team spot. LeBron's defense is average.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BCB @ Apr 8 2006, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like Nash but let's get real here. He's not the leagues MOST VALUABLE PLAYER...</div>If you're looking for team success, then yes, he pretty is the most valuble player in the league. I'm sure alot of GMs around the league love Kobe and would do anything to get him for their franchise, but they're looking for team success. Not a guy who has a bunch of awards and accomplished many scoring feats, or simply, a one-man team. If you want a guy who can score 40 pts a game regularly, fine, go ahead, but you probably wont go anywhere with your team.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Apr 9 2006, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you're looking for team success, then yes, he pretty is the most valuble player in the league. I'm sure alot of GMs around the league love Kobe and would do anything to get him for their franchise, but they're looking for team success. Not a guy who has a bunch of awards and accomplished many scoring feats, or simply, a one-man team. If you want a guy who can score 40 pts a game regularly, fine, go ahead, but you probably wont go anywhere with your team.</div>Unless you give him one other All-Star to work with, just like you have to do with every single player in the history of the game.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

WHat was I being hypocritical about?The fact that I think leading a team into a contending role is more valuable than leading them to the playoffs?

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real Deal @ Apr 9 2006, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you joking? Do you not believe that LeBron has teammates?Add to that the fact that the Cavs are only 6 games or so ahead of the Lakers in the wins column, with Kobe having a record-setting season, and Kobe edges LeBron for the MVP.Plus, Kobe should also snag that Defensive Team spot. LeBron's defense is average.</div>Sure he has teamattes when everyone is healthy, but during this win streak he has done it without Illgauskas and Larry Hughes who missed extended time. Like I said I find his numbers to be more impressive than Kobe's because they are better all around and it puts him in an impressive group of players..<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Apr 9 2006, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you're looking for team success, then yes, he pretty is the most valuble player in the league. I'm sure alot of GMs around the league love Kobe and would do anything to get him for their franchise, but they're looking for team success. Not a guy who has a bunch of awards and accomplished many scoring feats, or simply, a one-man team. If you want a guy who can score 40 pts a game regularly, fine, go ahead, but you probably wont go anywhere with your team.</div>An owner would want Kobe, a GM would want Nash..An owner wants to tell tickets and jerseys, a GM wants to win games...

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

This is hillarious.. i mean yall are saying that Nash is having the better season, but like its been said, Marion is wat a 20-10 guy... and is very consistent... Marion is puts up what our whole front line puts up on a daily basis, and you are probably going to say because kobe does not pass the ball. well watch a game, dont look at box scores.. watch a damn laker game, you will see repeated missed layups,mishandling of passes, and probably a few travels...And Lakers are the 3rd youngest team in the NBA, have a PG that wasnt even in the NBA lastyear he was playing NBDL, there are some colleges that can beat an NBDL team.. and Smush has stepped in and played a nice role..Odom still gets im guessing 15-17 shots a game, yeh when Odom wants to play he is great, but he only plays when everyone is dissing on him. Marion plays day in and day out.. Diaw yes he has improvements this year, but he finally has a supporting cast, he was soppost to be a star when he got drafted as i remember, but the ATL franchise didnt no how to play him... and had nothing but garbage around him..The hate for Kobe, is just unreal now a days, but if it was LeBron doing this everyone would be like Jordan who... and someone said up there Wade would be doing the same thing or putting up better stats than Kobe.. Are you aware that Wade's jumper is as bad as mine just about. and that aint good. Kobe has the best perimeter game, and possibly one of the best on ball defenses in the NBA. two things Wade lacks.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 9 2006, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WHat was I being hypocritical about?The fact that I think leading a team into a contending role is more valuable than leading them to the playoffs?</div>How can you be so sure that Nash is the MVP of the league when it's almost difficult enough to determine if he's the MVP of his own team? It's only ironic that Nash was NEVER an MVP candidate until he found a home back in Phoenix...at the age of 30 years old.Marion is averaging more points per game, and pulling down just as many rebounds as Nash throws assists, all while shooting 51% from the field, same as Steve Nash. Pretty close.So who's leading their team...and who's carrying their team? The two-man show will only get to the WCF's. The one-man show is the main attraction, and is in the playoffs. It's an easy vote. Kobe is the MVP. Nash is barely the MVP of his own team.

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>An owner would want Kobe, a GM would want Nash..An owner wants to tell tickets and jerseys, a GM wants to win games...</div> Yeah...Owners don't care about winning as long as their team sells a lot of jerseys and tickets....

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

Most owners are in it for business purposes, yes they want to win, but I dont know if its their number one priority. Then again, not all owners are like that, but I think the majority are..

 

Re: Does Kobe deserve MVP because it's about damn time he gets one?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ Apr 9 2006, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Most owners are in it for business purposes, yes they want to win, but I dont know if its their number one priority. Then again, not all owners are like that, but I think the majority are..</div> Winning = Better business