Define "outgunned". If you mean made more off season moves, then, yes, Colangelo wins hands down. If you mean has assembled a better, more complete, more competitive roster, then KP winds hands down. To me, a GM's job is to assemble the best possible team. And, that includes not making bad trades. If a move hurts your team (or at least doesn't improve it), you are better off "sitting on your hands" and doing nothing. It's easier to upgrade when you start with crap (the Raptors with 33 wins) than when you are already a very good team (Portland with 54 wins). And, I'm not even sure if the Raptors have actually upgraded anything with all these moves. Prior to July 1, Raptors biggest needs: Rebounding Defense Starting SG Bench Currently, Raptors biggest needs: Rebounding Defense Starting SG Bench He basically upgrade offense at the 3, but gave up rebounding and defense to do so. They still don't have anyone on their roster who is close to a starting caliber NBA SG, and still have one of the weakest benches in the league. If anything, their rebounding and defense has gotten worse. Is that your definition of "outgunned", to make a who bunch of moves that don't address any of your weaknesses and commit massive amounts of money long term to players who don't help improve those weaknesses? You may be impressed with all the smoke and mirrors, but I'm not. I don't care how good their offense is (not great without a SG), it won't come close to making up for their lack of rebounding and poor defense. As for "respecting" Bargnani, Colangelo has a vested interest in making Bargnani look better than he really is (i.e. overpaying him). Remember, Colengelo entered the 2006 draft with the No. 1 pick and used it on Bargnani. Portland entered that draft with the No. 4 pick and walked away with Roy and Aldridge. You may want to keep that in mind when considering which GM is "outgunning" the other. BNM
lol, the OP's single-handedly responsible for making everyone in this forum hate the Raptors. That's being a bit presumptuous. Colangelo's yet to show that kind of attitude with any of his moves. If something doesn't work out, he's always been quick to acknowledge that and act accordingly (the JO for Marion trade is the best example of this). I seriously doubt he'd extend Bargnani to justify drafting him over Roy and Aldridge (he's already admitted in interviews that Roy's become the best player out of that draft).
Simply put: "Outgunned" = Making moves to help his team. KP has not made ANY. YET, is my hope!! No intent here to make anyone hate anyone (referring to post stating that I am responsbile for everyone's hate for TO). No evidence of hate coming from me! I'm only questioning KP's lack success this offseason (thus far!)....and pointing out how I find it interesting how other GM's can create and make moves; sign extensions to key talent; and reduce cap while doing it. This is a "conversation" intended to ask a question: WTF is KP doing?
Is trying and failing is the same to you as not trying at all? KP has made moves; they just (a) failed or (b) are still in progress.
You give the OP way too much "credit". If that "honor" belongs to anyone, it's Chuck Swirsky. Personally, I'm not "hating" on anyone. I'm just stating my honest unbiased opinions on Colangelo's roster moves and the resulting Toronto roster. I basically got run out of the Raptors forum on BBF this time last year after I had the nerve to challenge a poster who claimed the Raptors had one of the best benches in the entire league. I (correctly) stated that the exact opposite was true - they had one of the weakest benches in the entire league. I can understand my opinion not being popular, but since when does stating something and backing it up = "hating"? I notice you haven't even attempted to address my points about the Raptors biggest weaknesses - weak rebounding and poor defense. Do you think all these moves Colangelo has made have addresses those weaknesses? If not, how much have all of these moves really improved your team? BNM
Ironically, you're talking to someone who hated Swirsky more than any of you ever could. Just ask posters in the Raptors forum. Chuck was hardly representative of the Raptors fanbase and his RoY vote was denounced by almost everyone in the city. It means a lot when someone as unremarkable as Matt Devlin is a major upgrade over you. Those "hating" comments weren't specifically directed at you (or anyone, to be honest). What I meant to say is that the OP comes off so enthusiastic and ecstatic about Colangelo's moves, when most Raptors fans (especially the ones on this site) range from unenthusiastic to (very) cautiously optimistic about them. He sounds like more of an obnoxious Raptors homer than most Raptors fans. As for the rest of it, I think you've somehow gotten the impression that I'm wildly optimistic about this upcoming season. I'm still undecided about how well we'll do (at least until Colangelo's done rounding out the bench). I think something has to be said for health. Jose Calderon isn't as bad a defender as he showed last year (struggling with a hamstring injury) and it was nearly impossible to set up a cohesive defensive lineup last year, with players in and out of the lineup. I also think the team will benefit from a non-Sam Mitchell training camp, and a full year without a terrible coach. And finally, I tend to look back at the '06 Raptors. That was a statistically weak rebounding team that was still successful because (1) they made up for their lack of offensive rebounding by maximizing their offensive possessions and (2) they focused on holding their own on the defensive boards. I think a frontcourt of Bosh, Bargnani (who I expect to improve on the boards), Evans, and Nesterovic could do that. Or they might not. It's still too early for me to believe anything for sure.
That year, they also played in an incredibly weak division - and they lost to the Nets in six games - and didn't out rebound the Nets once in that series. Even when your team was decent, they were still a weak rebounding team. You can get by with that somewhat in the regular season with a high scoring, efficient offense, but it's a recipe for disaster in the post season. Yes, Evan is a good rebounder, but so was Humphries off the bench -and Humphries was better in other areas than Evans. Evans rebounds well, and that's it (in his best season, as a starter, he struggled to average 5 PPG). You're also taking it for granted that you will re-sign Rasho, and that he'll be the same player he was two years ago. His rebounding in Indy last season was the worst of his entire 11-year NBA career. BNM
No Raptors homer here! I'm one of the longest-running Blazer fanatics that posts here. Yes, I remember Dad taking me and my little brother to games in '74 / '75 and at half-time, having a guy named Rick Adelman pat me on my shoulder; I remember being in the Memorial Coliseum when Bill Walton, Bobby Gross et al beat the 76's for the NBA Title...then throughout the late '70's and early '80's - going to every game with my folks - befriending TR Dunn and his wife, Cynthia and young son, Shamon (my folks even babysat Shamon Dunn on many occasions! And as a result of my family becoming friends with the Dunns, we later became friends with Ron Brewer and his gal, Carolyn. My Mom even was with Carolyn in the hospital and by her side when she gave birth to a son, Ronnie Brewer - now with Utah!). I even went to one of the player's weddings and sat next to Jack Ramsay! Eventually I moved to NYC and became a season ticket holder of the Bill Cartright, Patrick Ewing Knicks. Funny thing...as a graphic designer in NYC, I worked freelance for the company who produces HOOPS magazine...and was able to prepare the layouts for the Blazer's editions of the mag! Moved back home to Portland in the early '90's - just in time to see Clyde and Terry et al once again in the Championships. I now live in British Columbia. And get this - upon learning that the Blazers were going to select #1 in the draft - I bought season tickets (yes, driving down from Canada!) so that I could repay my Dad by taking him "back" to Blazer games (after all those years he took me!). My luck Oden gets hurt, but I still drove nearly 7 hours and attended close to 30 of the 41 home games. If I am a homer - it is to my Portland Trail Blazers. As a fanatic - I'm troubled by what I'm sensing out of KP. Perhaps all of the "Pritchslapping" of the past two years is bitng him in his own ass? Perhaps other GM's just don't want to deal? But sitting from my chair, I was observing an aggressive Brian Colangelo outgunning "the best GM in basketball," Kevin Pritchard. I posted this thread to gain the perspective of other Blazer homers: "Has KP lost it?" On the other hand, I felt that (perhaps) this thread may uncover something deeper, something more provacative in this moment of tense, free agency and trade period - that being: Is KP wiser than we all know? Shall we simply "let this cake bake?" I'm intrigued that this thread has lasted over three days now. The more I read the replies, I'm getting the feeling that (deep down) most of you might very well prefer the "bake it" approach. Thanks! Very Long Time Blazer Homer!
Total rebounding doesn't really tell the whole story. The last three Raptors teams (even the crappy ones from the past two years) have always held their own on the defensive boards. Their offensive gameplan sacrificed rebounding for efficiency and accurate long-range shooting. It really worked in '06 until other teams started adjusting to our pick-and-roll offense and daring us to incorporate some variety into our offensive gameplan (like maybe some off-the-ball motion?). We didn't. Not in the '06 playoffs (where we should have made it at least to the 2nd round). Not in '07. And that led Colangelo to overreact with a trade that never made much sense (he brought in more rebounding while completely killing any offensive chemistry that team had). But the point I'm trying to make is that poor offensive rebounding is not as big of an issue when you offset it with efficient (and sometimes explosive) scoring as well as a strong bench (with 48 minutes of quality PG play). I think Colangelo's roster is headed in that direction. It's like the '06 roster, except it addresses why that team to failed in the playoffs (lack of go-to scorers outside of Bosh, clueless coaching). In the East, that can potentially take you to the 2nd round. Swapping Reggie Evans for Kris Humphries is an excellent move for this club. Evans is a better rebounder and Humphries' "other" strengths are so overstated. He has a limited offensive game and absolutely no awareness of that fact. Hump could be a pretty valuable contributor if he stuck to rebounding and bringing energy off the bench. Instead he continually launches ill-timed bricks with that crappy jumper of his. He's also a fundamentally poor defender. It's what put him out of favour with Jerry Sloan in Utah. And it's what slowly made him expendable in Toronto. I suppose I am getting ahead of myself with Rasho. But he's publicly expressed his desire to come back to Toronto, he has an off-season home here, and his children were born here. Also, while his rebounding was at the lowest of his career, his minutes were right down there with them. Evaluating whether Pritchard has been active enough by comparing him to another GM is a gigantic waste of time. It ignores contextual circumstances. In this case, Colangelo had to "outgun" other GM's in order to rectify the mistakes he made the past two offseasons. Patience can be a virtue for Pritchard (a bad move is worse than no move at all), while Colangelo lacks that luxury.
KP trying but so far shooting blanks, BC is shooting overpaid bullets and is will cost him big picture.
Pretty cocky for a team thats been to the playoffs once in six years......Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, Lakers etc can make fun of the Raptors - but not you guys
Anyone can make fun of the Raptors. Just like anyone can make fun of, say, the Spurs. It's just easier with the Raptors.
I was referring to his TRB% which was a very Bargnaniesque 10.9% last season - the worst of his career by a substantial amount. There's a reason he didn't get more minutes - he didn't deserve them based on the way he played. He deservedly lost his starting job to rookie Roy Hibbert - one of the other guys Colangelo gave up in the Jermaine for TJ/Rasho/1st round pick trade. BNM
Did I say anything about you guys sucking 5 years ago? I don't think so. Do you honestly think the Raptors are going to be better than the Blazers anytime soon? Nevermind, you beat us in summer league tonight, so your future is much brighter!
See i just don't get the attitude....why the sarcasm? Do I think the Raptors are going to be better anytime soon? I think they could be, yes - but who knows really. Its not like we're the Clippers or Memphis - we have a top tier player in Bosh, a very young and still good player in Bargnani, a very good player in Hedo, drafted a promising young player this year and BC looks to be doing a decent job improving the bench. Portland has a solid team and lots of young talent - but they're not good enough for you to bash a team like Toronto. The Raps remember were thought to be a top 4 team in the east this past year but the wheels fell off. that does happen sometimes, we'll have to wait and see if they can get back to that place in '09
Yep, and even though the last seven years have been the low point in the history of the franchise, Portland won more play-off games in that seven year span than the Raptors did. Franchise W-L% Portland = 0.532 (7th of 30 Teams) Toronto = 0.414 (27th of 30 Teams) Besides, prior to your posting, nobody here was making fun of the Raptors, just sharing our honest opinions about your team's off season moves, your current roster and your chances in the upcoming season. It may not be what you want to hear, and you are certainly welcome to disagree and refute anything we've said, but none of it was exceptionally harsh or mean spirited. BNM
Thats good...that's really good. Don't get me wrong I do think Portland is a good team - but not good enough, for long enough to be judging other teams and talking about them like they're soooo far below you. Maybe thats just me though
Actually in that 7 year span the Raps have been in the playoffs twice, winning a total of 3 games while Portland has been there once, winning only 2 games. But really thats not the point i'm trying to make, just that Portland is not good enough to talked down about the Raps
pm me - i'll take that bet. I think last year was a disaster for the Raps and they'll get back to what they had going when people pegged them as a top team in the east.
