http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090728 http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9852462/Who-are-the-NBA's-most-overrated-players?
That blurb about Bosh is spot on. I don't know if it's just too difficult for him to play solid defense at an NBA level, or if he just doesn't care enough to. Although I wouldn't go on to say that he's one of the MOST overrated. He's a little overrated in my books.
Not a fan of Simmons, but it's hard to disagree with him here. Colangelo spent a buttload of cash on guys who are esseintially role players - not stars. $53 million for Hedo, $50 million for Bargnani, $20 million for Jack, combined with over $40 million left on Calderon's contract and Toronto is going to be in cap and luxury tax hell for years to come - and that doesn't even include Bosh. It's going to take a max. contract to get Bosh to stay (and even that may not be enough). If he leaves, you end up with a roster full of grossly overpaid role players and no superstar. Not exactly a good recipe for rebuilding if you lose Bosh. Seems like BC has guaranteed you will be hurting (big luxury tax payments) if Bosh stays, and will also be hurting if he leaves (over the cap with no superstar). I do agree that you should win more games in 2009-10, but you're still not realistic contenders. You'll likely make the play-offs but get bounced in the 1st round again. Probably not enough "progress" to convince Bosh to stay - and then you're likely back in the lottery. BNM
the shit about BC is stupid both hedo n' bargs deserve that kind of nba money (makes them easy to trade if the system doesnt work). The shit about bosh is truly spot on!
A starting center who is a horrible defender and one of the weakeast rebounding 7-footers in the last 25 years deserves $50 million? Bargnani has shown minor signs of improvement, but his improved stats are largely a function of increased playing time. He had a decent, but not spectacular rookie year, followed by a horrible second season, followed by a 3rd season that saw minor gains in per minute production over his rookie season. He was better in his 3rd season than as a rookie. So, that's progress. But he wasn't THAT much better. Certainly not enough better to deserve a $50 million extension (IMHO). Bargnani as a rookie: PTS/36 = 16.6 REB/36 = 5.6 AST/36 = 1.1 BLK/36 = 1.2 TS% = .546 EFG% = .507 PER = 12.8 Bargnani 3rd Season: PTS/36 = 17.6 REB/36 = 6.1 AST/36 = 1.4 BLK/36 = 1.4 TS% = .559 EFG% = .512 PER = 14.6 He's still a very poor defender and a poor rebounder and over all a below average NBA player. Below average players deserve MLE level contracts, not $50 million extensions. Colangelo is taking a risk and paying Bargnani based on potential, not what he's accomplished to date. It may pay-off, but I doubt if Bargnani's play ever exceeds the salary he will be paid and there is a very good chance he'll never produce enough to justify his salary. Hedo deserves what he gets this year, and next. After that he may very well decline as he ages - and while his play declines, his salary continues to go up, up, up. Actually, it makes them MUCH harder to trade - until the last year of thier 5-year deals when they have value as huge expiring contracts. But, if they don't work out, and their stats suffer, they will be very hard to trade during years 2, 3 and 4 of their big contracts. In this economy, teams are looking to shed salary, not overpay for guys who under produce. BNM
if i had to guess i'd say he was much better defensively internationally because he wasn't depended on to carry the team offensively. the more help bosh has(on both sides of the ball), the better i'd expect him to be on defense.
Both overstate their case. Simmons: If this little experiment doesn't work (ie: the team sucks, Bosh leaves), contracts quickly start to expire up to 2011, when we only have Turk, Bargs, Jose, DD, and Jack on the books. Three of those contracts are very tradeable right now, and Bargnani's still a wild card. This team won't be hamstrung for a very long time like he tried to make it sound. Rosen: Up 'till this year, Bosh's driving ability dominated his offensive game. A poorly formatted roster and poor coaching made it so that teams had little to no incentive to step out and guard him. If your team has enough talent to make defenses play him honestly, he will take it to the rim every single chance he gets. I fully acknowledge the limitations to Bosh's game (he needs more than one alternative to the face-up drive), but to act like he's "Chris Webber on Philadelphia" is ridiculous. The dude is a very good rebounder. If he were a "finesse rebounder" like Rosen thinks, the Raptors would have been the worst rebounding team in the league over the past few years by a wide margin.
http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/ericsmith/2009/07/28/taking-a-closer-look/ Eric Smith has taken it upon himself to rush to the defense of Bryan Colangelo, like any unbiased reporter should do.
wow. that's a terrible response. "bargnani might end up being a bargain if he improves significantly." "jack isn't the 3rd guard, he's the 3rd guard."
Yep, rock solid logic there. And here: "The Raps may have slightly over-spent for Bargnani but if that’s the going rate for a former #1 overall pick, then you do it." I guess we will all wait and see what Oden gets paid supposing his production stays about where it is at. If it does I doubt he gets 5/50. But there is no "going rate" for any player. Each player is different. Ludicrous to suggest that just because he's a former #1 he deserves more than anyone else.
Eric Smith has a pen built for radio. Geez that was terrible. I personally don't know how any Raptors fan can be personally offended by Bill Simmons. Disagree with him as much as you want. But he's empathized and praised our fanbase since 2006. And he villainized Vince Carter for the way he left, more than any major media columnist.
the only guy on the roster who can dramatically change the fortunes of the raptors is demar derozan. although, if he develops into a superstar- we would still be saddled with hefty long term contracts and limited.
The funny thing is, those comments are pretty much accurate. Colangelo doesn't mind throwing cash at guys, and Bosh is meh.
1.4 blk per game is bad? 1.4 ast per game is bad? Oh best of all ARE RAPS TRYING TO BE A DEFENSIVE TEAM? as I recall Jay triano is trying to build a team like PHX and this team is a poor man's clone of PHX and will get to the second round this year because if you look at 1,3,4,5 they all have decent back ups and if raps sign the 15th man raps have a complete team, so yes Bargs deserves his extension because look at his numbers and look at Dirk's numbers and you'll see that they both play very similarly and this year he has Hedo to get him to the next level and I fully expect bargs to avg 18-21 points per game with 7-8 rebounds per game because he has the quickness to do so
Those aren't BPG and APG numbers, they are BLK/36 and AST/36. His actual BPG and APG are 1.2 and 1.2. I never said those numbers were bad (not that 1.2 APG is anything spectacular), I was just showing that most of Bargnani's increase in production since his rookie year is a function of increased playing time. His per minute production has improved, but the improvements are rather small. That was my point and the reason why I listed per-36 numbers. No one will accuse them of that. Unfortunately, if you want to win in the post season, you better be able to play at least passable defense. Perhaps you missed this thread in the NBA General forum. You might want to check it out to see just what a horrible defender Bargnani is and the huge negative impact he has on his team when he is on the floor. In a nustshell, Bargnani had, by far, the worst +/- on the Raptors last season (-248, Kopono was 2nd worst at -137). Team defense was MUCH worse with Bargnani in the game (113.1 points allowed per 100 possessions) than when he was on the bench (106.2 points allowed per 100 possessions). He also allows his man to grab almost 5 more rebounds per 48 minutes than he pulls down (Bargnani = 8.5 REB/48, opponent = 13.4 REB/48). You REALLY don't want to compare Bargnani's numbers to Dirk's. 3rd year Bargnani = 15.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.2 APG, PER = 14.6 3rd year Dirk = 21.8 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 2.1 APG, PER = 22.8 Not even close. By his 3rd season Dirk was a two-time all-star. By his 3rd season, Bargnani was a slightly below average player. 7 - 8 RPG? I'll believe it when I see it. Bargnani has been in the league for 3 seasons and started 114 games. During those three seasons has averaged more than 6 RPG for a MONTH only two times. And now he's going to suddenly average 7 - 8 RPG for an entire season? Highly unlikely. He is one of the worst rebounding 7-footers to ever play in the NBA. In the entire 63 year history of the NBA, only 10 times has a player 7-foot tall (or taller) played at least 60 games averaged at least 20 MPG and had a total rebound percentage (TRB%) of 10.0 or less. Andrea Bargnani owns the distinction of having done it 3 times (every year he's been in the league). The only other 7-footers who have done it more than once are James Edwards (3 times in his mid-30s) and Brad Sellers (twice - likely the WORST rebounding 7-footer EVER). So, Bargnani may be an above average scorer, but he gives up more points than he produces (between 5 and 6.5 points per 100 possessions, depending on which metric you use) and is one of the worst rebouding big men in the entire history of the NBA. And, that earns him a $50 million contract extension? BNM
Or even LaMarcus Aldridge. The Blazers entered that day with the 4th pick in the draft and turned that pick + table scraps into Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge. The Raps had the 1st pick and ended up with Bargnani. Imagine what the Raptors would be like with Aldridge AND Roy instead of Bargnani. Although Bosh and Aldridge are similar players, I actually think they would have worked well together. Aldridge plays PF now, and it's probably his best position, but he spent almost all his minutes as a rookie playing center (next to Zach Randolph at PF) and was very productive. He's only an inch shorter than Bargnani, but much more athletic. And, he runs the floor extremely well, which would make him a great center in the fast paced Phoenix style offense Colangelo wants to recreate in Toronto. BNM
