It is? Where does doing that violate the Constitution? Also, the "framers" were a part of a group who literally killed their opponents in order to advance their agenda. I'm not surprised that you missed the point I was making about how "America" was created. Apparently, the founders acted "un-American". You believe Pelosi is correct in labeling people exercising their 1st amendment right as "un-American". I don't believe she is correct. So here we are...
Taking issue with Pelosi labeling people exercising their 1st Amendment rights "un-American" is a pro-GOP position? Should I then infer that the pro-Democratic position is to smear people as being "un-American" when they are acting within the confines of the law?
Um, not really. Is Pelosi now the arbiter on what defines "un-American" behavior, even when that behavior is protected by the U.S. constitution? Really? When did Tom DeLay call Americans exercising their 1st Amendment right "un-American"? Find me a quote and I'll believe you.
I'm sorry, I must have mis-typed something. Can you point out where in my post I claimed it violated the first amendment? So, again, you are advocating the violent overthrow of our present government? The framers went through a series of lengthy discourse. Even the Civil War started out with many years of discourse before turning violent when they felt they had no other option. Both of those started, if you'll remember, not upon a single issue either but upon a group claiming independence from a nation. So, until these groups of nuts from both sides declare independence you are comparing apples to oranges. They could neither act American or un-American as America hadn't officially existed until after the fact. You can be un-American while exercising your 1st amendment rights as GOP advocates so often remind us when people are burning flags. So, here we are...
I'm talking about a body of work. And labeling Pelosi is another pro-GOP issue, whether it is right or wrong is beside the point - you agree with it. As for your inference of the pro-Democrat position, I wouldn't know because I'm not one of them either. I find it interesting that you're willing to smear Pelosi for her exercising her 1st Amendment rights.
You see America and see only the constitution, apparently. I see a vast and complex culture, one where shouting people down in order to suppress civil discourse is considered not part of the accepted norm. How about you find me a quote where Gandhi expressed his love for hookers and blow? I make a general statement and you demand a specific quote that you know doesn't exist.
I do think it's a tad odd to hear people shout down their congressperson and anyone at a town hall who wants to speak with cries of "This is America!"
This is America. Shouting down political leaders in a "town hall" would be considered more "un-Cuban" or "un-Venzuelan" than "un-American" IMO.
That is because all the people that are doing the protesting in the manner that they are would just as soon turn this country into a faschist nation ruled by fear. One of my buddies sent me this interesting read: http://www.truthout.org/080909A Even if you don't agree with it, it definitly gives you pause to think about it.
I'm not labeling or smearing Pelosi. She's saying protestors are "carrying swastikas" and that others are "un-American". How is me disagreeing with her comments a "smear"?
Really? Citizens standing up to leaders who won't listen to them is "faschist"? I'd say it's more "faschist" to smear common citizens for being "un-American". Tempers are hot, people are angry, and the leaders elected to serve them had better start serving them.
. The Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, a solid majority in the House, and the Presidency, yet it's the "right-wing" and "conservatives" who are holding things up. Seriously, that is about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.
Since when is burning a flag "un-American"? I told you, I'm not a part of the GOP. Burning a flag is actually about as "American" a protest that there is. Try going to Havana and burn a Cuban flag in the street.
I think I get the picture. Pelosi, the Dems, and their sycophants now get to define what is "American" and what is "un-American". Good luck with that one.
I can't comment on protesters carrying "swastikas" as I haven't been to any of the town halls lately. http://mediamatters.org/blog/200908070008 But I can say that even if they did, that's a very fine line to walk bringing that up. I don't necessarily agree with it - but at the same time if it's there I think it needs to be addressed in a very non-political way. As to the smearing...you stated... How is that different than what you're saying about Pelosi? Her comments are stupid and she's desperate.
I'm just curious, but were you equally angry when Cheney, FOX News and other Republicans were saying that dissent about the Iraq war or the "global war on terrorism" was unpatriotic and tantamount to treachery, because dissent and criticizing the President in times of war "gave comfort to and emboldened our enemies?" I'm not sardonically saying you weren't, or playing "gotcha"...I genuinely have no idea. I don't recall reading your political posts prior to 2008. Not that you weren't commenting before that, but I was away from the forum for a time and started posting again in late 2007, so my first exposure to your political views came in 2008 or so. More generally, I actually agree with you, but it's certainly not a "Democratic party" thing. The previous administration, along with their "sycophants," were labeling Iraq war protesters anti-American. There was the idea from largely conservative bases in the middle of the country (geographically) that the "heartland" was "Real America" and those on the coasts were Ivory Tower eggheads who didn't really represent America. There was, of course, one Republican label of Democrats that they were the "Blame America First" crowd. I think trying to paint opposition as against the nation's best interests is a pretty old and standard tactic, an attempt to make an emotionally based smear. And I dislike it when Democrats or Republicans do it.
When did Dick Cheney say that protesting the Iraq War was "unpatriotic"? I seem to remember him saying the opposite. Link me, prove he said it, and I'll admonish him as well. If he didn't, I suggest you stop smearing him. As for "FoxNews", I believe it was actually an MSNBC anchor who called protesters "unpatriotic". Regardless, it's a stupid thing to say. What was your point?
Since you evidently didn't read my post, I'll re-quote my point. More generally, I actually agree with you, but it's certainly not a "Democratic party" thing. The previous administration, along with their "sycophants," were labeling Iraq war protesters anti-American. There was the idea from largely conservative bases in the middle of the country (geographically) that the "heartland" was "Real America" and those on the coasts were Ivory Tower eggheads who didn't really represent America. There was, of course, one Republican label of Democrats that they were the "Blame America First" crowd. I think trying to paint opposition as against the nation's best interests is a pretty old and standard tactic, an attempt to make an emotionally based smear. And I dislike it when Democrats or Republicans do it.
