Let's discuss this. I think a lot of you have his value higher than what it truly is. If it was as high as many of you suggest it is. He would probably be gone. But, you know, player personal people see the same things you do about Outlaw. Yes, he's athletic enough to jump out of a gym. He can create for himself at times. He is another scoring option. But what is glaring to you is glaring to them. Low BBIQ, Disrupts the offense when he is in the game, Can't defend. General Managers are not idiots, they see these things. A lot of you (including myself) thought Zach had a high trade value a couple years ago. We found out how valuable he was. Out of the three times that he has been moved. The blazers prob did the best in what they received in return. I think Outlaw is perceived similarly by other gms. So when you say that you wouldn't give up anymore than Outlaw for players like a Turiaf or a Haslem. It's probably not going to happen. It will probably take throwing in a Bayless to get anything substantial in return using Outlaw.
From on an outside view, Outlaw is a nice player and has a good game for a role player but his contract may be the reason his value is somewhat low. He's an expiring young player that is good, but he's going to want to be paid. With the market overpaying role players lately w/ guys like Vujacic and James Jones getting the MLE, you have to wonder what exactly is Outlaw going to want? This might be scaring away GM's to give up anything significant knowing that Outlaw could possibly demand 6+ million easily but realistically he's not worth that much in these economic days in most GM's eyes (unless he is given a bigger role than he has now).
I think the expiring contract adds to his value. That way you can bring him, see if he fits with your team and then decide how much he is worth from a first hand perspective. If you don't like ehat you see you cut him and you aren't out much. GM's give up more talent then they get back all the time when an expirirng contract is involved. I do agree that somebody is not going to give up a lot for him since they can see the same defiences is his game as we do.
I think his value as a player who can come off the bench and bring energy to an offense, create his shot and hit big shots, considering his contract is very desireable. That's one reason we still have him. He may have some weaknesses, but he's a non starter. The other reason we have him may very well who we're being offered as a trade.
KP woudn't trade him for lebron james. outlaw is the most over valued player in the league and should of been gone years ago.
While I agree that Outlaw's value is not high, I was one of the players who say I would not give up Bayless in a trade for Turiaf or Haslem. This is not about thinking Outlaw has a high value, but because I still believe in Bayless and think that it is more important to keep him and have him learn for another year then to get a back-up PF. In one year, Blake will likely be gone and we will need a BU PG and I think that Bayless will be that guy. And with Millers age, I think we could also be seeing a decline in his abilities soon. So that makes it even more important to double down on the point guard spot. Whereas I think that a BU PF would be nice, but I think that Outlaw will be fine in that position until another can be found that does not sacrifice Bayless.
thats crap. Zbo had to go for two reasons. 1) He was a PR nightmare 2) He was completely selfish on the floor and made the team stagnate. Outlaw is a good guy who is a PR dream. He is a little selfish on the court, but not nearly to the degree of Zbo. Comparing the two like that is just wrong.
Agree with Hack here. I don't think it hurts to tinker a lil bit and move Outlaw. If it means moving Bayless to move Outlaw, I would prob do it. Bayless, very finely, defined himself as a player this years summer league. He is not a point. He is not close to being a point. There is nothing natural about his point playing abilities. So, if he is ever going to be anything at that position. It's going to be due to the work he puts in. And the overall commitment he has to playing that position. What we have with Jerryd is an undersized two. We have no need for another two let alone an undersized one. So that to me makes Jerryd expendable in any deal for Outlaw. Let me ask you all this. If Bayless never cuts it as a point. And right now I'm inclined to say he won't. How good of a player is he really? And are we taking our chances of diminishing value by holding on to him any longer than we should?
Let me ask you all this. If Bayless never cuts it as a point. And right now I'm inclined to say he won't. How good of a player is he really? And are we taking our chances of diminishing value by holding on to him any longer than we should?[/QUOTE] +1 This is why I started the whole Haslem thread. I think we all know what we have in Outlaw. Plus with his contract I would put the chances as very slim that he comes back to Portland. With Bayless, yes, we have to older guards. But to say Blake is gone next year is foolish. He loves Portland and KP, Nate all love him. I would be shocked if he left. I'm sorry but Bayless is just not or never will be a PG or a player that fits well with BRoy. He needs the ball in his hands to go to hole and his game is being aggressive at the rim. To be honest, If I had never seen the Blazers and then watched the summer league I would say that Pooh Jeter would be a better fit than Bayless. Jeter was quick, dished when he had to and shot when he had to. I think playing in the ACB has really helped Pooh. ( No Canzano jokes here ). I think Outlaw and Bayless's value is at a peak right now and if we don't do something soon we'll lose Outlaw and Bayless, I doubt Bayless will get any PT this year to prove he is an asset. I say Rex has to much ego to ride the pine and may become a small distraction. It's pretty simple, If you have asset's your not counting on and you still have one more need ( Back-up PF, vet, Red Face Man ) I say you you go for it now. We could bring Jeter to camp. Sign a Breven Knight, Bobby Jackson, VET. Plus we still have Patty Mills who I am very high on and PetKo. Not to many teams in this league have that many options as the Blazers do.
+1 This is why I started the whole Haslem thread. I think we all know what we have in Outlaw. Plus with his contract I would put the chances as very slim that he comes back to Portland. With Bayless, yes, we have to older guards. But to say Blake is gone next year is foolish. He loves Portland and KP, Nate all love him. I would be shocked if he left. I'm sorry but Bayless is just not or never will be a PG or a player that fits well with BRoy. He needs the ball in his hands to go to hole and his game is being aggressive at the rim. To be honest, If I had never seen the Blazers and then watched the summer league I would say that Pooh Jeter would be a better fit than Bayless. Jeter was quick, dished when he had to and shot when he had to. I think playing in the ACB has really helped Pooh. ( No Canzano jokes here ). I think Outlaw and Bayless's value is at a peak right now and if we don't do something soon we'll lose Outlaw and Bayless, I doubt Bayless will get any PT this year to prove he is an asset. I say Rex has to much ego to ride the pine and may become a small distraction. It's pretty simple, If you have asset's your not counting on and you still have one more need ( Back-up PF, vet, Red Face Man ) I say you you go for it now. We could bring Jeter to camp. Sign a Breven Knight, Bobby Jackson, VET. Plus we still have Patty Mills who I am very high on and PetKo. Not to many teams in this league have that many options as the Blazers do.[/QUOTE] I agree with a lot of your points Duffer. I think Patty Mills makes Jerryd expendable. I think the blazers ought to free up the third string spot for him. Mills maybe the long term solution there. A package of Jerryd and Outlaw can bring in some much needed toughness, experience, leadership at the backup four positition. If the blazers were to bring in someone like Haslem. I think they are legit contenders this year.
I agree with a lot of your points Duffer. I think Patty Mills makes Jerryd expendable. I think the blazers ought to free up the third string spot for him. Mills maybe the long term solution there. A package of Jerryd and Outlaw can bring in some much needed toughness, experience, leadership at the backup four positition. If the blazers were to bring in someone like Haslem. I think they are legit contenders this year.[/QUOTE] I would prefer Turiaf. I just like the fire he brings to the game. He's a beast.
You're serious? A LATE 2nd round pick, who got hurt before summer league, is the solution at for 3rd string point guard? It's a stretch to assume that Patty Mills, whom I like a lot actually, every even steps on the court for meaningful minutes. He's shown absolutely nothing. Not that Jerryd Bayless HAS shown anything as point guard, but Patty Mills has shown even less. You keep bringing up Haslem, another player I like to a certain extent, so I checked out some numbers. Outlaw produced 5 wins in 2246 minutes last season. That's .1068 wins produced per 48 minutes. Haslem produced .105 wins per 48 minutes. Both of those numbers are almost exactly average. Outlaw's Roland rating (net plus minus on/off court) was -1.6. He was a net loser on the court. Haslem's rating was -2.3. Even worse than Outlaw, though close-ish. I would consider a trade of Outlaw for Haslem straight up, but adding a decent prospect like Bayless is far too much. Factor in Outlaw being 4 years younger and having a reasonable contract...I can't see why we would make that move.
I guess it all comes down to how management views Patty Mills and if they really feel they have a catch here with him. If they do, then yes, he makes Jerryd expendable. What this team could use more of is toughness. Veteran leadership doesn't hurt either. So if Patty Mills makes Jerryd expendable. A package of Jerryd and Travis might be able to get a deal done. Let's face it. I don't feel you are going to get what you need with Travis alone IMO.
The irony here, is that Travis' contract is *too* cap friendly. If he was making around $6 mil, he would have more trade value as an expiring contract. As is, he is worth more to us than he would fetch in a trade. For all his flaws, he makes positive contributions to the team. Most vets making that little are just deadwood. To get "fair" value in return, you pretty much have to package him with somebody else, or trade him for a player still on his rookie deal.
On the surface, yes, giving up both Bayless and Outlaw seems up a bit much because of Rex's 'potential". But at this point when you are so close to setting yourself up for a long playoff run, waiting on a 3rd string PG's potential can be very dangerous. Sure Bayless could turn out to be a solid player in the right system. But what if he never does in Portland ? How is he gonna beat out Blake and Miller with Nate as coach ? Nate has asked for Vet's and finally gotten one. So I think your argument is kinda moot because Bayless will never get a chance with Blake and Miller in front of him. Back to my point. Bayless may still have some value as well as Outlaw. After this past summer league how much value does Bayless really have ? I think the longer KP waits, the more Rex's value goes down. Not only that, what has Bayless done that makes him such a valuable chip we just can't trade ???? You would hold up on a trade for a proven vet (Haslem, Turiaf) for just the potential of combo guard who we really don't need for the next two years ??? Carpe diem............"seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"
I'm not sold on Bayless as a PG, but at the same time, what happens in two (or three) years if we trade him? We will be over the cap, so are we just going to pickup a PG with the MLE? Do we start a 31 or 32 year old Blake who is currently in his prime yet still sub-par as a starter? I don't have any problem keeping Bayless as a 11th/12th man in case of injury and to see how much of his potential can be realized. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to package him for an impact player (read: not Halsem or Turiaf). There are only so many minutes to go around, and if you Bayless is your 11th/12th man, I'd say you're in pretty good shape.
I agree. I personally believe Bayless will turn out, but either way, it is worth it to keep him just to find out if the alternative is to pick up Halsem or Turiaf who almost certainly won't be the difference makers in how well the Blazers do this season. Let's just say for a second that there was some deal for Harris (I know it won't happen), well I would add in Bayless in a second because Harris 1) is better, 2) plays a position of importance. Back up PF is really not that important. Outlaw, Batum, Cunningham, Pendergraph and Oden should be able to cover the 10 minutes that LMA is not on the court.
Definately agree with you here man.. ZBO and Outlaw are completely different people and players in virtually every way possible maybe minus their defense.
So being that Jerryd is an undersized two, what does it then make him when he's guarding the other team's PG? Not an undersized two methinks. Rather, a PG. You don't like the way he plays point on offense, but that has nothing to do with whether or not he is a PG. Remember, half the game is played on defense and he if he guards the other team's PG, he is fulfilling his role as a PG. On offense it really doesn't matter that much what he does IMHO; with Roy he won't need to play as a pure PG/facilitator for the team to be successful. The team won 54 games with Blake and he's hardly asked to be a distributor.
