Even if he just comes back as a role player - the guy you put on the court when you need a 3or a good free throw shooter - that's something the team did not have last year. It may not be enough to win a championship, but then, no one has claimed that. Just that it makes the team a little better. Think how many close and OT games the Blazers lost when they bricked free throws last year. Win just half of those games and it's a 57 win team, easy. And wasn't it mediocre man who said the draft that netted Roy, Aldridge & Sergio deserved an F-? I mean, I can be a grouser at times but mm has me beat by a mile.
I don't see him getting more than 10-15 mpg this year. He's a decent enough contributor, but his skillset is VERY limited and specialized. Not that we don't need his shooting, or anything, but we have a guy in Rudy who offers just as good shooting, plus a whole lot more. We also have a guy in Batum who has FAR better ball handling skills and all-around ability to ball than Webs. Echoing what mook said, I don't want Webs taking away time from these guys either. And I think he's dreaming if he thinks he can pass either of these guys on the depth chart come crunch time. Then again... Nate McMillan is our coach.
The league average is 15.00. Webster's best year was 11.97. That is over 3 points below the league average. I am not sure how my math is off, but if it is please tell me how. It's early and it's Monday.
Webs was drafted too high and too young! This makes most expectations too high! He adds dept and another match-up potential for Nate to use. He adds better depth to the SF spot. Add Edit: He would be a very good draft pick about now if coming right out of college IMO. This team is going to be very hard to prepare for with its versatility. We can match up with nearly anyone except maybe a quick PG and Mills may be able to help with that. I for one am very glad to see Webs come back. He is a player with equivalent of three or maybe four years of college experience.
Very true....but not really relevant. For 3 seasons, Webster has been a below average player. He capped that off by sitting out his 4th season with what was supposed to be a 6-8 week injury. Now, we are supposed to believe that the kid has magically become a valuable player on a play-off team? Sorry, not buying it. Particularly not when we have Batum as an option.
Wow really? I would think someone who has been coached at the professional level, and is a noted gym rat would be more the the equivalent of somoene who went to college for the same period of time.
I do not expect him to be a major contributor this year - but this is good for both the team and himself. If he blows up - it's a plus for the team, if one of the other players suffers an injury and he can help fill-in, it's a plus for the team - and even if he can not take minutes from the other players - he is an additional trading asset - which is always good for the team. Overall - win-win.
I don't think anyone will disagree that Nash totally mucked up that draft. That doesn't change the reality that Webster was the #6 pick, and the guy the Blazers prefered to Paul and Williams. That is the yardstick he will be measured by...and if he can't stand the heat, he better go flip burgers or bag groceries for a living! I must say, there is a real irony here. Zach was run out of town for his imperfections, and many people would gladly do the same with Outlaw....and yet both of those guys were drafted in the 20s. Webster was drafted 6th - but is held to a *lower* standard as a player.
I don't see how having Webster back could possibly be a bad thing. He won't be the kind of guy to complain about playing time and if he ends up looking the way he did during the first pre-season game last year, he'll be a great addition to what we have going on.
Bull hockey. He didn't draft himself at #6, why should he be measured by that yardstick? People who use that draft position excuse to pin unfair expectations on him are just looking to bitch. Yes, we could have had Paul. Did you tell Bowie to suck it up because he couldn't play like Jordan? Fuck that noise. It's bullshit.
At worst (well, the "worst" that assumes he is fully recovered from injury) he provides some usable depth. A ~12 PER is poor for a starter but isn't too bad for a reserve. If he can be a solid backup, he'll upgrade the team's depth and allow them to use Outlaw more at power forward (which is where he's generally played best). In addition, he gives the team one more "x-factor." The overwhelming likelihood is that he won't be an impact player, but there remains the chance of a break-out, in which case the team suddenly becomes an absolutely elite team. It's always nice to have that lottery ticket, even though chances are it won't win. Then there are all the in-between scenarios...like his improving slightly and becoming league-average. People were impressed by the Spurs adding Richard Jefferson. If Webster attains average status (~15 PER), he'll be providing the same caliber of contributions. Always good to add another average player to the roster, since no team has 12-15 players who are average or better.
Before we jump to conclusions on this. Back in March, Webs told Clownzano APRIL!! APRIL!!! APRIL!! Will see.
I hadn't realized Jefferson had a PER of 15. I figured that since he averaged 20 ppg, he was an above average player. Interesting. I've compared the move to the Michael Finley acquisition a few years ago, and it seems even more appropriate now. MF had a PER of 14 in Dallas, and has wallowed between 11.3 and 13.7 since moving to San Antonio. Interesting, Webster had a negative PER last year! -8. lol http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02.html Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread. I'm happy to have Webster back. But there are at least 8 guys on the team right now who are better than him. (Roy, Fernandez, Aldridge, Oden, Blake, Batum, Outlaw, Miller, Przybilla.) He and Bayless are in the same boat. The only difference is that Bayless has never really felt the security of regularly scheduled NBA minutes and Webster has. It's going to be tough for Webster to accept that on most nights he'll probably only be getting garbage minutes or used situationally for times when we need an extra three point shooter for a minute or two. It's not like the guy is a psychological rock to begin with. If there's one guy I expect to see a soulful article by Quick about a player's struggle with getting the coach's attention and playing time (aka "a whinefest"), it's probably going to be with Webster.
You beat me to it. I was going to make the exact same point. Martell will be 10th or 11th on our depth chart. How many teams have a 22-year old with experience as a starter in the NBA as their 10th or 11th man? When considering PER, you must also consider the role that player played. It's much harder to maintain a high PER as a starter playing 28 - 30MPG than it is as a back-up playing 12 - 15MPG. As a 20/21-year old starter, Martell had to play the bulk of his minutes against some of the best players in the league. Defending, and being defended by guys like LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Ron Artest, etc. is a lot harder than racking up stats against other teams bench players. For this reason, assuming Martell is coming off the bench and playing many of his minutes against other bench players, I see him posting a career best PER this year. I would not be surprised to see him have a PER > 15.0 this season, but for a 10th man, I'd be happy with a 14.0. Also, I think the players he's on the court with will also have a positive impact on his PER. Martell has never had the benefit of playing with a center that commands double teams, or a point guard that is good at creating for others. The centers he's played with, as a starter, have been Theo Ratliff, Joel Przybilla, Jamaal Magloire and briefly LaMarcus Aldridge as a rookie. None of those guys were dominant low post players that commanded double teams whenver they got the ball in deep. The starting PGs he has been paired with have been Sebastian Telfair, Jarrett Jack and Steve Blake. None of them are particularly skilled at creating easy scoring opportunities for their teammates. I'm not sure how long Nate will stick with bringing Greg Oden and Andre Miller off the bench, but any time Martell Webster spends on the court with those two players can only help his production. Oden drawing double teams will create more open looks for Webster, and Andre Miller will do a good job of getting Webster the ball in a position to score. Also, when Martell first joined the Blazers, they were a pretty crappy team. They won 21 games his rookie year. He was not surrounded by a lot of quality players. The players with the two highest PERs on the team that season were Ruben Patterson (17.0) and Zach Randolph (16.9) - not exactly guys who are known for making their teammates better. Martell's second year, they added two very talented rookies and won 32 games, but they still had a lot of below average players (Jamaal Magloire, Ime Udoka, Juan Dixon, etc.) playing big minutes. Now look at the guys Martell will be potentially playing with on the "2nd Unit" this year: Greg Oden - 2008-09 PER = 18.1 Travis Outlaw - 2008-09 PER = 15.1 Rudy Fernandez - 2008-09 PER = 15.4 Andre Miller - 2008-09 PER = 18.6 Playing with that much talent beside him should help Martell's growth and his confidence. I know Nate rarely plays the 2nd unit as a unit during games, but those will be the guys Martell will likely be teamed with during practice (at least early in the season - according to Nat'es comments). And, since Nate almost always leaves one of Aldridge or Roy on the court with the 2nd unit, all the better. The two things that have been holding Webster back have been a lack of confidence and not moving well without the ball. When he plays with confidence and is working to get open, he is a much better offensive player. I know the sample size is extremely small, but if you watch the replay of the 24-point quarter against Utah, you will see that Martell was constantly on the move, he was running off multiple screens, attacking the defense, drawing fouls, etc. Also, again very limited sample size, but he was also very active moving without the ball in the preseason game against Sacramento last year (yeah, I KNOW it was preseason, and yes I KNOW is was against Sacramento). He also seemd to work very well with Rudy in that game. So, I think playing with better, more talented teammates, both in practice and in the games will help Martell's confidence. I also think playing with guys like Andre Miller and Rudy Fernandez will encourage him to be more active and move without the ball more. I think a confident, active Martell Webster coming off the bench can be a huge plus for the Blazers. I look forward to seeing how well he performs with his new teammates. BNM
Like I said in my post, he was drafted too high and you, apparently along with others, value him at that level. I see him maybe able to attain to a player that was drafted later, like a 15-20 level player. If he somehow manages to attain his draft level then this is a bonus because my expectations are not as high as yours. It is also a bonus that he is expected to be able to contribute this year. He did win one game (Utah) in the last season he played. If he adds one game this year we would not likely have won, he is valuable to the team. I expect he will do at least that this year.
Agreed! That second unit is a better team than the teams Web played with in his first two seasons IMO.
Bollocks. Webster's paycheck was based on his draft status. Besides, why did he declare for the draft that year, if not for the promise of a lotto level salary?
Holy cow! Some page C7 news has blown up on this board. You know it's the dog days of summer when Martell gets this much digital ink! That said I'm stoked to hear that Martell is making a comeback for his sake. I also liked what I saw in his one pre-season game. We will see of course and I'm reserving judgement, but I'm certainly not going to go out on a limb and say he will make an impact. On the other hand I'm not ready to write him off as useless either. Only time will tell for Webs. As an aside I prefer to see Webster on the court over Outlaw.
