The list and ranking The list has Wizards at 9th and Raptors at 13th! It also says Wizards are the fourth best team in the east if Arenas is healthy. And for raptors is says: Do you agree? I personally disagree Raptors made more moves then they have in a real long time and the moves raps made are ALOT better then wizards!
that ranking slots us in as the sixth ranked team in the east which aint so bad. i would disagree with washington being ranked ahead of us because for them to do some real damage in the east- agent zero needs to play over 70 games and i dont envision that considering the last two years.
There's the 3 atop the East (Boston, Orlando, Cleveland). Then the consensus seems to be that the middle tier consists of Atlanta, us, and Washington. I'm giving Atlanta the benefit of the doubt until the season actually starts, since they're the only one of the 3 that has actually shown something the past two years. After that, I think it's a toss-up between Washington and the Raps. I personally feel we're a better team than the Wizards. They have a similar philosophy and style of play as us, but we have much more depth and we actually have a frontcourt.
If the Raptors play defense, they should be the 6th seed at absolute worst. 4th at best. I know this sounds obvious, but it's so true.
LOL I must say this raptor forum has been very active lately its nice to see But back to the topic, I really cant see the Crawford/Johnson combo working out both are tremandous players but similar in play, its like the bosh/JO combo it just doesnt work out you know so I really see raptors above atlanta and washington
atl is probably going to finish games with a lineup of bibby, crawford (at the two); joe johnson; josh smith (at the four) and al horford- that would represent one of the most dynamic offensive teams in the league. and their bench of zaza and jeff teague is not bad either
Washington at 9 is totally whack. Even if Gilbert Arenas is 100% healthy and plays the best ball of his career, he's not going to turn thatn 19-win trainwreck into a 50-game winner. Toronto at 13 is about right. I might put them a little lower due to weak rebounding and poor defense, but they have enough offensive firepower to overachieve during the regular season. So, 13, and 6th in the East, is in the ballpark. I'd also put Portland ahead of Denver and Dallas. Portland added Andre Miller and their young guys will all be a year older and a year better. They won 54 games last year with three rookies (Oden, Batum and Fernandez) in their rotation. The natural improvement of those players, plus the addition of Miller, should make the Blazers even better this season. Denver has gotten worse. They lost considerable depth in losing Dahntay Jones and Linas Kleiza. Dallas may look better on paper, but their core is aging and players like Kidd and Marion will continue to decline. I think it really comes down to San Antonio and Portland for the second spot in the West. If San Antonio is healthy, it's theirs. But, when was the last time San Antonio was healthy? And now their key players are a year older. McDyess was a good pick-up, but he's not exactly young. If the injury bug hits San Antonio again - especially Duncan or Ginobili, look for Portland to grab the 2nd spoit in the West. BNM
no freakin way. portlands big off season acquisition was andre miller, not a huge improvement over blake especially considering that dallas, the spurs, and arguably the lakers got better. and the nuggets are still 5 games better than portland in my humble opinion. losing kleiza will have a negligible impact on the team in my estimation because at best he was the 8th man off the bench. as for mr. jones- im sure they can find a pest somewhere for the min. and their pickup of ty lawson helps solidify their backcourt and anthony carter has demonstrated that he can guard two's sufficiently. btw, lest we forget that houston without tmac and artest showing up in his underwear for the team bus- still beat the blazers fairly easily.
You do realize that the Blazers tied San Antonio and Denver for the 2nd best record in the Western Conference last season, don't you? Given their very young roster (three rookies in the rotation, best players in their early 20s, no player over 30 in their top 12 last season) it doesn't seem like a stretch that they might improve their record for the 4th consecutive season. Doesn't matter if the Lakers got better. They are still No. 1 in the West until someone proves otherwise. Did Dallas get > 4 games better? That's how many games they finished behind Portand last year. And Dallas' best players are all past their prime and in decline. Unlike Portland's who are young and improving. Kidd isn't nearly the same player he once was - especially on defense where he is now a liability. Dirk's production has been down 4 years in a row. I see no reason to think it won't be 5. He's now 31 and his best years are behind him. Their big off season acquisition Shawn Marion has also seen his production drop 3 years in a row and he hasn't been the same player since he left Phoenix. Like Kidd and Dirk, he's now in his 30s and his best years are in the rear view mirror. Given the age of their roster, and the fact that they lost a young, productive bench player in Brandon Bass, I'm not sure if Dallas will win as many games as they did last season, let alone 4 or 5 more. As I said, the 2nd spot is the Spurs - if they can stay healthy. Duncan barely made it through last season and couldn't play on the 2nd night of back-to-backs. He's still a great player, when healthy, but injuries are taking their toll and he's now 32. San Antonio definitely has one of the most talented rosters in the league. Unfortunately, it's also one of the oldest and most injury prone. There is a flaw in your logic. How can Denver STILL be 5 games better than Portland when they were exactly ZERO games better than them last season? Both teams finished with identical 54 - 28 records. You do realize Kleiza averaged almost 10 PPG coming off the bench last season, don't you? I'd hardly call that negligible and disagree on the impact of losing Jones and Kleiza. Losing them severely impacts their bench and kills their depth. With Jones starting, they had a high powered bench led by J.R. Smith and Kleiza. Losing Jones forces them to start J.R. Smith. That may not look bad on paper, until you consider the kind of player Smith is. He is quite likely the most wildly inconsistent player in the entire league. He'll give you 32 points one game and then 2 the next. He'll follow a 45-point career night with a 5 point clunker. So, moving him into the starting line-up not only weakens Denver's bench, his inconsistency could also be contagious. His teammates will never know what to expect from him from one game to the next. That may be acceptable in a bench player, but is not a desirable trait in a starter - and the reason J.R. Smith usually comes off the bench behind players of lesser talent - like Dahntay Jones. I also think you underestimate Kleiza's impact. He was 6th on the team in minutes played and 5th in total points. With Kleiza (9.9 PPG) gone and Smith (15.2 PPG) moved into the staring line-up, Denver's bench goes from one of the highest scoring in the league to one of the least potent. Don't expect Lawson to have a huge impact. He's an unproven rookie and will be playing behind Billups (and potentially Carter). I don't expect him to get a lot of minutes. He certainly can't replace the bench production they have lost all by himself. So last year, the Nuggets won exactly the same number of games as the much younger Blazers, lost one starter and a guy who averaged nearly double digits off the bench and added an unproven late 1st round draft pick. And that somehow makes them 5 games BETTER than the Blazers. I don't see it. Irrelevant. Houston was a tough match-up for the Blazers. Of course, they had both a healthy Yao and Ron Artest during that series. They are both gone, and McGrady's health remains a concern. With Yao out for the year, no Artest, no Mutombo and an over-the-hill, injury prone McGrady, Houston will be lucky to make the play-offs. Unlike the Spurs, Mavericks, Nuggets and Rockets, the Blazers best players have not yet reached their primes. Even if they didn't add Miller, the natural improvement of their young players would likely put the Blazers ahead of the Mavericks, Nuggets and Rockets. Adding a veteran play maker like Andre Miller can only help their young guys get better and his veteran leadership will be a steadying force. And, although Miller is now 33, his production has actually been significantly better the last two seasons than the three previous ones. He is also an iron horse who has missed a total of 3 games in his 10 NBA seasons. He has played in 530 consecutive games - the longest active streak. BNM
remember when we thought chicago's young players would develop and the bulls would become perennial contenders? the bulls regressed and blazers might as well. lets look at their promising young talent- greg oden (an injury waiting to happen, heck the kid even admitted as much); aldridge (like his game but do u honestly think he's can take his game into the next level?); rudy fernandez (appears unhappy in portland and his unhappiness might be exacerbated by mr rodrigiuez trade to the knicks) and of course brandon roy is a stud, no argument here. in addition, the signing of andre miller concerns me because the dude loves dominating the ball which is of course what brandon roy likes doing himself except at a much more efficient rate. if dallas and portland squared off- im taking dallas; if denver and portland squared off- im taking denver and if the spurs and portland squared off- im taking the spurs. does that translate into more wins for those three respective teams? maybe not but portland in my opinion is an inferior team.
I agree with most of those arguments. Just a couple points of my own: - Losing Klieza will hurt Denver, but Dahntay Jones isn't that big of a loss. Jones was a pretty good perimeter defender and an agitator, who can hit a spot-up 3. Nothing more. Arron Afflalo can do that. Overvaluing Dahntay's importance is what led Indiana to waste so much cap space on him. - Marion's declined the past two years, but I think he'll bounce back a bit with Jason Kidd as his PG. Nevertheless, Dallas has a lot of money invested in a roster that I think will probably be a middle-of-the-road playoff team. - The Blazers look poised to take the next step this season, based on internal improvement alone. But they do have their own question marks. I want to see if Greg Oden can play a full season and cut down on his fouling. And I want to see how two ball-dominating guards in Roy and Miller will co-exist.
I'm not sure who "we" is, but I don't remember thinking that. Those baby Bulls had a lot of young talent, but much of it was redundant and they had no leadership and no defined "pecking order". They all wanted to be "the man", but none of them were clearly superior to the others- and none of them were clear cut leaders. The Blazers don't have that problem. Brandon Roy is clearly their best player, and their leader, and a much better player than anyone on that baby Bulls team. The Blazers roster is better balanced and they have a good mix of steady, stable veterans (Blake, Przybilla and now Miller) to help guide their young players. I don't think we should autiomatically assume the young Blazers will regress, or even stagnate. Given the fact that Roy and Aldridge have shown steady improvement every year they've been in the league, and Oden, Rudy and Batum were all rookies, I think there is a good chance they will improve, but even if they collectively show ZERO net improvement, they still won 54 games last season - just as many as San Antonio and Denver and 4 more than Dallas. Time is in Portland's favor. Their key players have not yet peaked. The other top teams in the West have all seen their top players peak and most are in decline. The passage of time is the enemy of San Antinio, Dallas and Houston (and to a lesser extent Denver). The Greg Oden you saw last season was probably the worst you will see for the next 10 - 12 years. He was coming off microfracture knee surgery. Even stablished players take two years to fully recover from that type of operation. Other than two summer league games, Oden had not played competitve basketball for 19 months. He came into the season out of shape. It's tough enough being an NBA rookie with high expectations when you are healthy and ready to play. Oden was neither. And he was still insanley productive in the minutes he played. He had one of the highest TRB% in the entire league and a PER of 18.1. Not bad for an out of shape rookie coming off microfracture surgery. His biggest problem was fouls. Now that he has a season of NBA basketball under his belt and is recovering some of his lateral quickness he should be able to cut down on the fouls and increase his minutes. And if he doesn't, the Blazers have Joel Przybilla to help hold down the center spot. Sure, why not. He has the skills and work ethic to do so. He has shown steady improvement and added more weapons to his offensive game every year - and he's still a good three or four years away from entering his prime. Sergio wasn't traded to the Knicks, he was traded to Sacramento. Doesn't matter. Rudy will get his minutes and he will get his touches. He set a rookie record for 3-pointers last season and Andre Miller is more than capable enough to throw him the occasional alley-oop (I read somewhere that Miller led the NBA in lob passes for dunks last season). With Sergio gone, the Blazers PG rotation of Miller/Blake is much better than last year's Blake/Rodriguez. Sergio is creative, but he's also turn over prone and can't play a lick of defense. He should fit right in on the Kings. Miller is a smart veteran who knows his roll and adapts to his teammates. He has led the league in assists in the past and increased his scoring the last two seasons becuase that's what the 76ers needed. Check out the 76ers record before and after the acquired Miller from the Nuggets. With the addition of Miller, they totally turned things around. Prior to adding Miller, the 76ers were 5 - 19 and headed to the lottery. After adding Miller they went 35 - 23 and made the play-offs with the 7th seed. That's quite a turn around. As far as Roy dominating the ball, that really only happens in the 4th quarter of close games. When the game is on the line, every team wants the ball in the hands of their best player. Adding Miller won't change that. Roy will still have the ball during crunch time. Miller managed to co-exist very nicely with Andre Iguodala in Philadelphia. Iguodala is a sort of Brandon Roy Lite. Not quite as good as Roy, but similer style and skillset. Adding Miller didn't hurt Iguodala's production - in fact, it helped it. So, I don't see a problem with Roy and Miller playing together. If anything, it will unburden Roy and let him focus more on his own offense rather than trying to create for everyone else. One problem the Blazers had last season was creating easy scoring opportunities when Roy wasn't in the game. Steve Blake is a good shooter and a smart player that doesn't rurn the ball over, but he's not a creator. Andre Miller is capable of creating offense for himself, and his teammates. He's capable of pushing the tempo and creating easy baskets in transition - something the Blazers have lacked for years. He's also great at penetrating and dishing off, or drawning the foul. Guys like Oden, Aldridge and Batum will benefit from his presence and his ability to create offense and draw fouls will give the Blazers more consistent scoring when Roy isn't in the game, or the very rare times when he has an off night. Well, that's why they play the games. At the beginning of last season, I would have agreed with you. But late in the season, I saw the Blazers DESTROY the Spurs twice (double digit wins in both Portland and San Antonio) and blow the Nuggets out by 28 (and it wasn't that close) with the 2nd seed in the Western Conference on the line. This team grew a lot last season. They are no longer intimidated by anyone. They are dominant at home and have started to show they can beat good teams on the road - this is the one area where they still have room to grow, but made progress late last season. BNM
It's not about losing Jones' production - which was nothing special. It's about his role. With Jones' departure, the wildly inconsistent head case known as J.R. Smith becomes the starter. That weakens Denver's bench and also thows a lot of inconsistency into their starting line-up. It might work, but it could also be very disruptive. At the very least, losing Kleiza and his 10 - 11 PPG (over the past two seasons) severely hurts their bench - and after last season, Raptors fans should understand how important it is to have a reliable scoring option coming off the bench. Denver goes from TWO relaible bench scorers (Smith at 15.2 and Kleiza at 9.9) to zero. If Jason Kidd was anywhere near his prime, I'd agree with you. But, he's not. And neither is Marion, and neither is Dirk. 5 years ago, this line-up would have been one of the best in the NBA, with Kidd, Dirk and Marion all being all-stars. Now, not so much. All three have been in steady decline for the last 3 - 4 years. I don't think adding an over-the-hill Marion to an over-the-hill Kidd is some magic fountain of youth. Both will continue to grow older and both will continue to decline. Of course, as a Blazer fan I'd also love to see Oden play a full season and cut down on his fouling. If he does, he will be a huge force in the paint. Even if he doesn't. If he shows absolutely no improvement over his rookie season, the Blazers still have one of the top center rotations in the league - especially if you value things like rebouinding and defense from your centers. I disagree with the description of Miller as a ball dominating guard. He once lead the entire NBA in assists. He is simply a smart player who knows his role. When his team needs him to distribute, he does. When they need him to score more, he is capable of doing that, too. Did his prescence in Philadelphia hurt Andre Iguodala's production? No, they co-existed just fine. Iguodala had his two highest scoring seasons sharing the backcourt with Miller. In spite of (or, perhaps because of) Millers presence, he still managed to get his 19 - 20 PPG, 5.5 RPG and 5 APG. BNM
Portland is a very young team and way too young to compete with the elite of west, dallas, lakers, san antonio? and ur putting portland after lakers? are you kidding me? Denver lost 2 players but added very underrated players and they will be back on top and might make the finals if they are facing lakers at anytime. Dallas has wat suns use to have, a way too under-rated player in marion, just because his not avging 20+pts a game doesnt mean his on a decline he didnt fit into the system but we did see how he cud play during the end of the season with raptors! So please dont say portland is second best with just adding andre miller, miller is 30 yrs old! his body isnt the same!
I do think that Afflalo can fill that role. Either way though, the second point about Klieza is much more important and I agree with you on that. When I say "bounce back," I mean he'll halt the regression that he's shown the past 3 seasons. He needs a good distributing point guard. Calderon was one, but Jose was too hesitant to push the break when Marion leaked out. Kidd isn't, and Marion will benefit from that. I think he'll have his best season since his time in Phoenix. It won't match that kind of production, but it will be enough to stop his gradual slide into irrelevancy. As before, I agree with you about Dallas' roster. I didn't mean to imply that Miller's a ballhog. I'm simply saying that, as a PG, he's used to bringing the ball up himself, calling and setting up plays himself, and initiating those plays himself. The adjustment will need to be made by Roy, who until now, has been allowed to hold that same role. If Miller is playing off-the-ball for large stretches of time, Portland won't be getting the best out of him.
Where did I put the Blazers ahead of the Lakers??????????????????? Here's my exact words: "Doesn't matter if the Lakers got better. They are still No. 1 in the West until someone proves otherwise." The Blazers managed to compete just fine with Dallas and San Antonio last season. They won the same number of games as the Spurs and 4 more than the Mavs - and as you say, that was as a very young team. Their best players are now all a year older, better and more experienced - and they've added a quality veteran PG. Portland tied with San Antonio and Denver for the 2nd best record in the West last season. As I said multiple times, the Spurs will be 2nd (behind the Lakers) - if they are healthy (far from a given). If San Antonio has any significant injuries, the Blazers have a realistic shot at the 2nd best record in the West (just like last season). Denver lost a (below average) starter and a guy who averaged double figures off the bench and replaced them with two guys that are unproven. And two of their starters (Martin and Billups) are now 32 and 33. Martin is already below average and slipping fast. Billups is still very productive, but age will eventually catch up with him. If Marion is so damn good, why didn't you keep him? Seriously? His production, in all areas (not just scoring ) has declined three years in a row. He's not under rated and simply not the same player he once was (and neither are Kidd, nor Dirk). As I have pointed out multiple times, the Blazers tied for the second best record in the West last season - with an incredibly young roster. With the growth and improvement of those same young players, I don't see why it's so inconceiveable that they will once again be right back in the hunt for the 2nd best record in the West. Concerning Andre Miller, he's actually 33, but his production has increased the past two seasons. He's also missed a total of 3 games in 10 years in the NBA. He's very durable and keeps himself in great shape. The good news is anything he gives the Blazers is pure gravy. They won 54 games without him last season. I don't see how adding him could possibley make them worse, and potentially makes them better. BNM
Actually, that's EXACTLY what the Blazers (and Roy) need. There is simply now reason for Roy to waste his energy bringing the ball up the court and creating for others for all 4 quarters. Which is why he does very little of it except in the 4th quarter of close games. That's the role Steve Blake played in the first 3 quarters of games last season, but Miller can do it better. The only time Miller would be playing off the ball for significant stretches is in the 4th quarter - when Roy takes over. For the record, Nate McMillan has said Blake will continue to start with Miller coming off the bench. He has also said Przybilla will continue to start with Oden coming off the bench. We'll see how long that lasts, but any time Greg Oden spends on the court with Andre Miller will make him a better, more effective player. Last year, the Blazers PGs were absolutely horrible at getting Oden the ball on the pick-and-roll when he was cutting down the lane wide open. That won't be a problem with Miller. Miller is also great at the drive and dish (more easy baskets for Oden) and led the league in lob passes for dunks (even more easy baskets for Oden). BNM
Im not a hater, not into any internet beef (i remember sum dude call me out a few months ago but I ignored him!) and I dont want to be offensive but as I recall last season Dallas and San Antonio both had major injuries, Jason Terry and Manu G (plus the occasional Duncan going down)! Anyways again not to be rude this thread is suppose to be about Raptors and teams in the east, I couldnt care less for west in this forum!
u are easily the most verbose poster on these forums but we love u nonetheless. the blazers probably destroyed a spur team who had to start roger mason and matt bonner because of injuries. this year richard jefferson and mcdyess (SP.) fill those positions and bonner and mason assume their role as good role players on a great team. i actually think the spurs are going to win a championship and here's why: tony parker, manu, RJ, Duncan, Mcdyess. is there a better starting five in the nba when healthy? im not entirely sold on the nuggets either but i think in a seven game series- they would simply intimidate and outwork u guys but thats merely of a matter of opinion. as for dominant at home- maybe but that would only matter if they could get homecourt advantage in the playoffs and i dont envision that happening for your blazers.
