http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32472594/ns/politics-the_new_york_times Well, not surprising. And neither is the following quote from the article: "The Democratic shift may not make producing a final bill much easier. The party must still reconcile the views of moderate and conservative Democrats worried about the cost and scope of the legislation with those of more liberal lawmakers determined to win a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers." I wonder if this will go the way of Bush's SS reform.
Yeah, I was reading another article about it in the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/health/policy/19repubs.html?_r=1 BTW, I think it's a despicable strategy for one side to say the other side is being obstructionist and is unwilling to work with you when they simply have a fundamental disagreement. The Democrats are saying it this time, but the Republicans did it with the Patriot Act. Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree based on an honest philosophical difference?
If the Democrats force this bill through based on their own party alone, they're going to get creamed in 2010. And I honestly don't think they care.
thats because republicans arent partners in healthcare reform and obama tried for months to incorporate the republicans but they were insistent on trying to make this issue the president's "waterloo" but little do they know its going to be his normandy. plus, the stimulus spending is going to increase just in time for the 2010 races
Do you think the Democrats or the White House would agree to any of the following conditions? --allow individuals to deduct health care insurance expenses from their taxes like corporations? --allow individuals to have health savings accounts? --deregulate insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines? --allow employers to sell catastrophic insurance only? Compromise isn't compromise if the Democrats are unwilling to budge. Besides, it's not just the Republicans who don't like it; President Obama and the Democratic Leadership is having enough problems keeping their own members in line.
The administration & lefties gave the righties a 'take it or leave it' on this "reform". There was no willingness to working together. Now the lefties are imploding.
People seriously think that the other side should give it up like a prom date because they have no choice? Who was it that said a woman should lie back and enjoy it if rape is inevitable? Must have been a Democrat. If I worked with a group of let's say five people and three of them wanted to do something unbelievably stupid should I just go along? Would I be a whiny bitch if I tried to stop them? Even if they were right and I was wrong, should I go against my belief that I am right? I don't think so.
The program they develop will eventually be wildly popular with Americans over the long haul. That's certainly been the case with pretty much every industrialized country that has gone down this path. And it's also the case with Medicare and Social Security. Why would it be different this time? Will they lose seats in the next midterm because of health care reform? Maybe. Well, probably. But history shows that the Democrats probably weren't going to make major gains in the midterms anyway. And a little divided government is good for this country. I'd rather see the Dems pass major reform that includes a public option and then lose the House and/or Senate, than see them retain power and not pass reform. Democrats need only a short time in power to pass legislation that will survive for decades, even lifetimes. It's like a weed--once the seeds are planted Republicans can fight against them year after year, but they'll never beat them back. The best they can hope for is reform (aka welfare reform in the early 1990's). If they can get this passed, it'll probably cost them in the short run. But in the long run is a different matter.
It shouldn't be a surprise that a huge population gets something for free that is paid for by 1-5% of the population is popular. That doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Medicare may be popular, but it isn't sustainable. I posted an article last week stating that hospitals are only reimbursed for about 90% of their costs related to Medicare.
Absolutely 100% correct. That's my fear when the Left is in power. Government programs are a racheting effect. Once they're put in, they only go one way. When a true small-government opposition (which doesn't currently exist) is in power, their effect is temporary. This legislation is going to be an anchor around the neck of growth and prosperity for this country. As for getting this bill passed, the Democrats are taking the long view. Daniel Hannon has it exactly right when he says that it permanently changes the debate. When your health and life are involved and the government controls it, everything revolves around that point. Tomorrow's Republicans will be where the Democrats are today and today's Democrats will be so far to the left that they'll look at Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi as right wingers. This is a battle not on one issue, but a war for what many of us believe America stands for. I don't believe someone else should have control over my body and the healthcare I receive. That's for me to decide, not my representative or my neighbor.
*nod* We disagree on whether it's good or bad, but we definitely agree on it's ability to last. I think conservatives will look back on the Bush years as a colossal waste in the area of health care. Had Republicans made real health care reform a top priority when they were in power, we wouldn't be in the current situation. You hear them argue now that we could bring about all the reform we need with tort reform, private savings accounts, deregulation, etc, but it rings hollow. The truth is that they had their chance and they didn't deliver the goods.
While I'm not so sure I agree with 100% of what you are saying, I do agree with most of it. Especially about the amount of control the government is taking over us as persons as well as financially. Maybe, to get it all over with, 100% of our pay should go to the dems and they will allot it back as they see fit after taking their cut.
And the righties made their series of undeniable demands as well. Don't act like this is a one-ring circus we're observing. When Obama's administration sent out the balloons to test the air about a non-governmental option the Republicans should have jumped wholeheartedly on it and started praising it as a first step. Instead all I saw was essentially "Well, there are still many other issues that make this a bad idea"...
After the last 8 years, they should really not give a shit, and jam every bill they want down the republicans throat. They did it to us. Now it's our turn. Fuck em.
Well, you're partially right (in a leftie sort of way). And I don't mean to make this necessarily a onr-ring circus, but that's what it's turned out to be. It's not supported by all the dems. It's not supported by the citizenry (in general) and yet the dems and administration are going to just, as hasoos so aptly puts it, jam it down everyone's throats whether they want it or not. That's not my idea of a representative government. It's more of a despotism form of government.
It's only despotic if you are in the minority. As centrists seem to matter less and less, we're going to continue to see more wild swings in government. We just ended a long stretch of conservative government. Now, for 8 or so years, we'll have a really left government (by our standards, although certainly not by Europe's). Then we'll probably go back to a really right government. Etc. Each side will jam through as much as they can, never compromising, because they know time is limited and there's no benefit in compromising to attract fewer and fewer centrists. That's assuming, of course, conservatives can figure out a way to attract minorities back to their party. I think it's going to a take a whole new group of Republican leaders to do that--not just in the party but on talk radio and television.
I think some of these are good ideas. Why don't republicans use this chance to push their alternative to the proposed plans at these town hall meetings. I saw one yesterday down in Texas and the Senator said was this was a bad bill. OK, what's your alternative? Deregulation? Co-ops? Health Saving Accounts? Americans want reform and all the opposition can come up with is "Just say NO"?????? It's the equivalent of the Democrats' "Anyone but Bush" Its counter-productive and doesn't solve anything. I have to admit that this isn't the best bill possible but it's the only one being presented by politicians.
