The Pistons fell from ECF several years in a row to 8th seed, 1st round and out. Dumars clearly backed his horses way too long and they grew old together. Sounds like a story with a bad ending. Yet it is remarkable that the Pistons did make the playoffs while he is rapidly rebuilding the roster. He traded Billups for a huge expiring contract. They weren't championship contenders with Billups, and he's a year younger than the 34 year old AI. Dumars let one of his best players over the last decade go as a free agent: Sheed. Sheed's 34 years old, too. Look at the roster without those two: Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Maxiel, and Kwame Brown would be the best 5 players they could put on the court. Maxiel is really short at PF - 6'5", and has never played starter's minutes. Brown is an outright bust of a 1st/1st draft pick. Hamilton is the guy you'd expect to be leading scorer, and with only a little help from Prince, they're quite offensively challenged. Use the cap space cleared by AI and Sheed departing on 26 year old Ben Gordon and 27 year old CV and the team is set at two positions for the next 4-5 years. For a team that _was_ hurting for offense, Ben Gordon gives them a go-to scorer, and CV is no slouch either. After those signings, the lineup looks like: Gordon Hamilton Prince CV Kwame Rather solid at 4 positions with a pair of young guards (Stuckey, Bynum) and Maxiel forming the core of a decent 2nd unit. The C position looks like a disaster, and the roster has small-ball written all over it. Stuckey, Gordon, Hamilton, Prince (at PF), and CV (at C). So Dumars goes out and signs a couple of veteran bigs: Chris Wilcox and Ben Wallace and the C position looks old but deep. Wallace might have enough gas in the tank to give the Pistons 24 minutes - most of Q1 and Q4, start of Q3. He still can play some D and board and block shots, but is even more injury prone these days than Luol Deng. After these moves: Gordon/Stuckey Hamilton/Bynum Prince/Hamilton CV/Maxiel Wallace/Wilcox/Kwame I have Hamilton playing some SF since they'll want to play some small ball to get their wings out there as a unit. They might get pushed around some, but 6'9" Prince and 6'11" CV bring decent height and agility. I haven't even factored in the three draft picks Detroit added over the summer. All listed as SFs, but they actually bring some height. The big question is whether any can contribute. A lesser question is how much does it take to contribute more than Kwame Brown? SF Austin Daye is 6'11". SF Jonas Jerebko is 6'9". SF DuJuan Summers is 6'8" and 236 lbs. That's 3 guys 6'11" and another 6'10" and 3 more at 6'9". They're not going to be a small small ball team at all. Those three rookies may or may not contribute, right? How about bringing in one of the best big man coaches the league has seen in the past decade or more: Brian Hill. Smart move, and all the insurance one can expect for the rooks. It's not a championship team, it is a team rebuilding on the fly. That is one hell of a quick rebuild so far. I don't see any reason they won't make the playoffs again, and they could be a lot better than anyone expected at the time of the Gordon/CV signings. Dumars may not even be done yet.
Good points all. Dumars is a pretty damn savvy GM. He's done amazingly well at shedding salary and retooling as you said. Let's see what he does next summer. Detroit might not be a bad FA destination with that core.
7th seed, done in the first round. im little perplexed by the gordan signing- rip, gordan, stuckey are all interchangeable and there are only two backcourt positions. why would u commit so much money to a dude in gordan who might be a sixth man?
He's done fine, but not great. He didn't get enough for Iverson cap space, but there wasn't much available, so it's not his fault.
He's done okay, nothing earth shattering though. He should have saved some of the cap space for 2010..Lee would have been better than CV imo.
I'm not impressed with what he's done at all. He's set up a team that's basically looking to be stuck in the middle of the eastern playoffs and likely lose in the second round for a few seasons. Then Rip is gonna retire and they'll be one and done for years to come. That said, there's a lot of question marks. We'll see if Charlie V is worth a damn. It'll also be interesting to see how well a three guard rotation of Stucky, Gordon and Hamilton works. They could be much better than I think if things work out.
For the most part Dumars has done an excellent job. But in the last couple of years, I question some of his moves. Firing Flip Saunders and hiring Michael Curry was a disaster. I don't think there are too many GM's who would trade Chauncey Billips for Charlie V and Ben Gordon. Really liked the signings of Wilcox and Wallace. Didn't like Austin Daye, but he did play really well in the Summer. (so did Qyntel Woods).
I thought Dumars did a brilliant job assembling the core that established an Eastern Conference dynasty...acquiring Billups, Sheed and Prince were all inspired moves, and acquiring Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton were also good moves. He also put in place nice reserves like McDyess and Hunter. Then, of course, he made the understandable but catastrophic mistake of selecting Milicic over Melo. While it was only one mistake, it may have cost Dumars and the Pistons a title or two, as adding a first option star scorer like Melo could easily have put them over the top in the years they just came up short. This Pistons off-season didn't impress me very much. Gordon is a very niche, specialized player. He's a tremendous scorer, but doesn't contribute much else and is a defensive liability. He might help a near-contender with a specific need: an excellent defensive team lacking scoring punch and an open guard spot. That team isn't the Pistons, who aren't a near-contender, already have a designated shooter/scorer in Hamilton and have no open guard spot (pushing Stuckey to the bench mitigates some of Gordon's value). Villanueva is likewise a very niche accessory...he's a power forward who doesn't play inside and doesn't defend. If a near-contender with excellent defenders and an established post presence had an open forward spot, Villanueva could be a nice add. That isn't the Pistons, either. So, to me, Dumars added some mismatched pieces to his team. You can get away with that if those pieces are star/superstar talents...then you get creative and build the team around those new pieces. Gordon and Villaneuva aren't star/superstar talents. They're neither the kind of players you can build a team around nor players who are complementary to the Pistons' existing players. Therefore, I think they will only marginally upgrade the Pistons...yet they cost a ton of money. Not a very effective rebuild, IMO.
I dunno. It doesn't look to me like he backed his horses way too long - he traded Billups for Iverson midseason after a ECF appearance. That isn't backing them way too long, unless you are highly caffeinated. Trading Billups for AI doesn't qualify as rapidly rebuilding the roster. That qualifies as one seriously lousy trade. CV is no great shakes, either, especially when better players at that position were available. Well, at least it looks old. Wallace barely played last year and Wilcox hardly set the world on fire playing for the C-challenged Thunder. How about firing him after two years? Because we all know that's what's going to happen. That's the way it goes at PalaceDome: "One coach enter; one coach leave". Strangely, it reminds me of the John Nash rebuild of the Blazers. Take a team that isn't quite good enough to win a title and replace the talented players with less talented players. Anything could happen. Dumars is done, the owner just doesn't know it yet. barfo
Villanueva averaged 21.7/8.9 per 36 minutes last season at the age of 24. 16.7/6.7 in 24 MP. He's going to get the PT in Detroit at PF where he belongs. He's been miscast as a SF. I'm not making the case that Detroit has rebuilt. I'm making the case that this is year 2 of their rebuilding and that they'll make the playoffs while rebuilding. Dumars may not be done shaping the roster for this season, but he clearly has some work ahead to build the Pistons into a contender again. They're going to have to address the C position, clearly. And possibly the PG position after we finally get a chance to see BG get his shot to play his natural position.
Good points. Dumars did the same thing the Mavs do- he wasn't patient and now has a team that really can't grow, has OK talent and will get stuck in the middle for years to come.
Hmm. The cynic in me wants to say that of course he's impressed you - you're the world's biggest Ben Gordon fan! I would be AMAZED if the team he has just constructed makes the second round of the playoffs.
He's done decent for what assets he has. He still has a few moves he should make, like trading Rip and a few other players primed to decline.
He just spent 100 million dollars on two guys who never play in a single all-star game. How is this a good thing? He game Rip Hamilton an absurd contract extension. So now two of his three highest paid players play the same position. The idea that Hamilton can play small forward should have been disproven last year. It will be this year. They don't have anyone that can handle the ball or distribute. Charlie-V is a prototypical powerless forward. Ben Gordon is only interesting in throwing the ball at the basket. Sure, he got an expiring contract. What he did with it was questionable at best. Since I have loathed the Pistons since the 1990 I would like to thank Joe Dumars for fucking that team into the dirt. Thanks Joe, I couldn't have ruined the Pistons better myself.
I think today's market will prevent teams from unloading long, bad contracts. Especially if they player under contract is going to go into a serious decline. Dumars did a good job building a contender in the past. He is going to have to become a miracle worker to turn this current team into a playoff team.
Bascially he turned that team into the equivelent of the Milwaukee Bucks IMO. I don't see that as success.
Also not impressed with Joe D's work. They won a championship, but are the exception in winning a title without a superstar. Not many teams have won a title without someone Hall of Fame worthy. If Shaq and Kobe could have solved their differences, we do not even have this conversation. Getting only an expiring contract out of Billups is pretty weak. They should have atleast gotten one young prospect. He overpaid for Gordon and CV is not a game changer. Things that are attributed to Dumars: Drafting Darko over Bosh, Wade, and Anthony. The coaching circus that started by hiring Larry Brown. Giving questionable contracts to bigs like Kwame Brown and Amir Johnson Getting peanuts for a veteran PG This team is an 8th seed or bottom of the lottery.
I think where several people disagree with you is that last part. So what if they make the playoffs? In the east, that's a sign of mediocrity, not necessarily building toward something bigger and better. And the team Dumars has put together this summer appears very limited and inflexible for future growth.
He is very effective in building second hand teams. HIs team the earlier part of this decade was just that.
Not impressed at all. Too much money for Gordon and CV. CV may put up numbers but he was doing it on a very bad Buck team last year. He is a slow SF and a powerless PF,not worth the money. How can people be impressed with bringing Wallace back, he is a short old center who is outmatched in the NBA today. He had a lot of money to play with and did not use it wisely.
