'Ahmadinejad has enough uranium to go whole way'

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ear-showdown-with-iran-escalates-1793483.html

    'Ahmadinejad has enough uranium to go whole way'

    Senior US official says secret facility is right size to make 'bomb or two a year'
    By David Usborne and Andrew Grice in Pittsburgh

    The crisis in relations with Iran escalated ominously yesterday after the leaders of the US, Britain and France accused the regime in Tehran of operating a secret uranium enrichment facility buried deep in a mountain bunker near the ancient religious city of Qom. Barack Obama called Iran's activity "a direct challenge" to the international community.

    The accusations were made public in an extraordinary joint statement by the US President, flanked by Gordon Brown and the French President, Nicolas Sarkozy before the start of the G20 economic summit in Pittsburgh.

    Iran had previously insisted that its plant at Natanz, which is open to international inspection, was the only one involved in enrichment. The new revelation sharply raises the stakes at a time when Israel has been signalling that military strikes against Iran are on the table.

    Iran's first response was one of familiar defiance. "If I were Obama's adviser, I would definitely advise him to refrain from making this statement because it is definitely a mistake," President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in an interview with Time magazine in New York.

    Western sources said the plant at Qom, 120 miles south-west of Tehran, is not yet operational. But it is designed to hold about 3,000 centrifuge machines, which would provide the uranium needed to produce one atomic bomb a year. "Iran has enough uranium to go the whole way," one Western diplomat said. A senior US official said that number of centrifuges could not produce enough uranium to make sense commercially for power generation. "But if you want to use the facility to produce a small amount of weapons-grade uranium, enough for a bomb or two a year, it's the right size."

    He stressed that making a bomb was "still some way off" but that the plant gives Iran "more options." French officials said the secret plant was in a "heavily protected" area under the control of the Revolutionary Guards loyal to Ayatollah Khamenei and President Ahmadinejad.

    If nonplussed that the plant's cover has been so dramatically blown, Iran's President insisted his government was in compliance with the rules of the International Atomic Energy Agency. "This does not mean we must inform Mr Obama's administration of every facility that we have," he said. Mr Obama's claim "simply adds to the list of issues to which the United States owes the Iranian nation an apology over".

    Later, Mr Ahmadinejad softened his tone telling reporters that Iran was in fact ready to give international inspectors access to the Qom facility. "We have no fears," he said.
    Yet for Mr Obama, the revelation will bolster the case for tougher sanctions on Iran, if its regime does not bend now to calls for enrichment to stop. It also ratchets up tensions significantly on the eve of talks scheduled next Thursday in Geneva between the regime and six world powers, including Britain, the US and Russia.

    "The Iranian government must now demonstrate through deeds its peaceful intentions or be held accountable to international standards and international law," Mr Obama said. His French and British peers portrayed even deeper indignation. "The level of deception by the Iranian government and the scale of what we believe is a breach of international commitments, will shock and anger the whole international community and it will harden our resolve," Mr Brown said, adding that it was time to "draw a line in the sand". He went on: "This is the third time they have been caught red-handed, not telling the truth."

    Mr Sarkozy set a deadline of December for Iran to put everything on the table and provide proof that it is not attempting to weaponise nuclear technology. New sanctions could include a ban of the sale of refined petrol to Iran, which could seriously harm the regime but also hurt much of the population

    British intelligence agencies played a "big part" in uncovering the plant, working closely with their American and French counterparts, diplomats said. The intelligence has been shared with Israel, but British sources are playing down the prospect of military action.

    One said: "We are a long way from that. We have no interest in a military operation against Iran or anybody undertaking such an operation."

    Even as Mr Ahmadinejad was speaking to Time, his officials in Tehran were acknowledging the plant's existence. "In order to preserve its definite rights [in] the peaceful use of nuclear energy, Iran has taken a successful step and created a semi-industrial plant to enrich nuclear fuel," Ali Akbar Salehi, its nuclear energy agency chief, said in a statement.

    Iran insists its enrichment programme is for civilian purposes and other countries have no right to interfere. But Western governments have long doubted this. British sources said the intelligence on Qom specifically suggests it is not consistent with plans for electricity generation.

    US officials said that Western intelligence had found out about the Qom plant several months ago and that Mr Obama had been briefed on it even before he took office. Exactly how they cracked the wall of secrecy erected by Iran around it has not been divulged.

    Iran itself then became aware that the West had got wind of the concealed plant. On Monday, it sent a cryptic letter to the IAEA in Vienna in which it spoke for the first time of a "pilot uranium enrichment plant" in addition to the one at Natanz. It added that additional information would be furnished to the agency in due course.

    All this off-stage drama was unfolding just as world leaders were gathering first for the UN General Assembly in New York and then in Pittsburgh for the G20 summit. Mr Ahmadinejad, last night cancelled a press conference he had been scheduled to give at the UN before leaving New York.

    The game had already moved on after the Russian President, Dmitry Medvedev, signalled that Moscow was dropping its opposition to new sanctions against Iran. The switch was attributed to Mr Obama's decision a week ago to drop the US anti-missile shield in eastern Europe. But a senior US administration official revealed that the information about Qom was shared by Mr Obama with President Medvedev during a bilateral meeting in New York on Wednesday. That may have helped modify Mr Medvedev's thinking.

    Iran fights back:
    President tells US it's making 'a big mistake'

    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad fought back against claims of illegal concealment last night, saying that it was the United States that should be apologising to Iran and that Barack Obama was making a big mistake which would ultimately play into the Islamic Republic's favour.

    In an interview with Time magazine, which took place as the US President was ratcheting up pressure on him from Pittsburgh, Mr Ahmadinejad shrugged off accusations of a secret underground second nuclear facility. "If I were Obama's adviser, I would definitely advise him to refrain from making this statement because it is definitely a mistake. It would definitively be a mistake," he told Time editors in New York, where he had been attending the UN General Assembly.

    "We have no secrecy, we work within the framework of the IAEA [International Atomic Energy Agency]," he added. "This does not mean we must inform Mr Obama's administration of every facility that we have."

    Far from seeming contrite, Mr Ahmadinejad went on the offensive saying that by bringing up the uranium facility, the US President, "simply adds to the list of issues to which the United States owes the Iranian nation an apology over. Rest assured that this will be the case. We do everything transparently".

    Mr Ahmadinejad also hinted that the attack by the US, France and Britain might be just the thing around which his deeply fractured nation might rally.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    This story raises two questions.

    First, have the French surrendered yet?

    Second, how long before Obama apologizes?

    Seriously, though, time has just about run out on diplomacy here. Iran's either going to get the bomb or somebody's going to have to get physical to prevent it.

    Bush talked about Iran as one of the axis of evil countries. His diplomatic approach to dealing with Iran doesn't seem to have accomplished much. Obama's "change" approach isn't accomplishing anything either.

    The problem with diplomacy is that it only works if both sides have some area of interest to align them and if both sides are rational.

    I think it's 50-50 at best that Iran's leadership is rational enough to hold off using their new weapons at the first opportunity. We think like Westerners and MADD and all that make sense to us. These guys are half nazi and half religious extremist; their way of valuing things are different than ours.

    Harvard Law Review editor to debate syphilis ridden whacko dictator. We win the debate, but what does that mean if there's a nuclear war in the mid-east?
     
  3. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    It's not our problem. We need to stay out of it and let Israel handle it. Hopefully we'll be long out of Iraq and Afghanistan we they do.

    I wonder if my car will get better mileage or performance with radioactive tainted gas?
     
  4. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    If/when there is a nuclear war, the Middle East is the most efficient place to have one.

    90% of the world's problems seem to be created there.
     
  5. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    IMO, Obama's post-election rhetoric towards the Middle East helped calm East-West tensions enough for Iranian reformists to finally bring their voices and complaints to the forefront. I'm definitely not giving him sole credit, but I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen a more multi-faceted, dynamic Muslim world once the US stopped treating that region like one homogenous enemy.

    I think this part of the article is most telling:
    He wants the West return to the "Axis of Evil" approach so badly, precisely because it'll distract the Iranians from their crumbling economy and diminishing freedoms.

    I'm not precluding the use of force, because it's increasingly looking like the necessary option. But to caricature Obama's approach and insist it hasn't done anything is shortsighted, IMO. And it's not like he painted himself in a corner with that approach either. He still can (and it looks like he's willing to) be forceful with Iran.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The US never treated Muslims like one homogeneous enemy. There are a number of states in the region that have been our allies - Kuwait, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and others.

    I don't read anything in this article that demonstrates any calming of East-West tensions. Nor do I see anything in recent releases by Al Qaeda that they now love Obama/America and want peace. Nor do I see Russia or China talking like they're any closer to putting sanctions on Iran than they have all along.

    Why do you think Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? And relate that to what putting sanctions on Iran might do.
     
  7. bodyman5001

    bodyman5001 Genius

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    How much money do I personally have to send to Israel to have them blow that place to hell? I will send cash.
     
  8. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    The US has treated whole countries as homogeneous enemies for the longest time, specifically under the Bush Jr. administration. And it's alienated the very movements that they should have been fostering.

    The calming of East-West tensions is obvious. I'm not talking about the two sides becoming chummy or anything like that. But Obama's rhetoric and approach since being elected has made the US a more improbable target by the un-negotiatable segments of the Middle East. The proof is right there for everyone to see. Al Qaeda's influence over the Muslim world (and even Muslim extremism) has faded dramatically. And Ahmadinejad almost faced a full-on revolt from his own citizenry. People weren't convinced by the "US bogeyman" after Obama was elected and they began looking for more substantial causes for their problems.

    Putting sanctions on Iran will hurt the people we want to take control of that country. Now I'm not ruling it out at all, because at the same time it has the potential to make Iranians more frustrated with their lunatic president. That's the key though. You want to place those sanctions on Iran and take more forceful actions when Iran's government has been unreasonable enough that their population holds them accountable for the resulting conflict. Today's news and Ahmadinejad's subsequent comments may very well be that tipping point. Like I said before, Obama hasn't painted himself into a corner with his earlier approach. He has nothing to apologize for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Don't get me wrong, I think Obama is talking hardline and that's the best anyone can do short of military action.

    The telling quote from the story:

    If Bush made any mistake, it was letting the Europeons run the negotiations while Ahmadinejad was running out the clock (getting the bomb).
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  10. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    I agree on both points. But I still disagree with that first assertion that Obama should regret how he approached the situation right after being elected. It was a smart approach that he executed very tactfully, and the benefits of it have been obvious.

    What he does going forward from here will be much more important though. If he'll have to apologize for anything, it'll be missteps from this point onwards.
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    What benefits?

    I see none that are obvious. We're becoming less of a leader in the world in every respect.

    My point about him apologizing is that in order to win an election, he suckered people into believing (maybe he believes it himself) that guys like Ahmadinejad and Chavez are the good guys.
     
  12. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    The benefits are in turning the situation from an Iraq into a Pakistan. There are people who are willing to steer that country towards a more democratic direction in the event that the US takes a more forceful approach. Iran has felt more pressure internally over the past few months than it ever did externally from Bush's approach.

    I can't really dispute you on the election stuff, because I tuned out after a certain point and just waited for the results. I am curious though, so if you could bring up some articles or anything on that issue, that'd be cool.
     
  13. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    One word: Osirak.

    Once again, Israel will do the world's dirty work and be condemned for it publicly while thanked privately.
     
  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It's their own dirty work, since they benefit from it more than anyone else.

    barfo
     
  15. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Hey Denny, do you ever read this blog - http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/

    It's worth reading every couple of days. They've been talking about a 2nd site in Iran for some time now.

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/09/irans-secret-nuke-sites-will-the-world-finally-get-serious/
     
  16. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Apparently Obama has known about the second site since January.

    My hero.
     
  17. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm sure he was briefed about many things like this when he took office.
     
  18. Blaze01

    Blaze01 JBB JustBBall Member

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    You are right...they get to "benefit" by living....
     
  19. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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  20. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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