In Bad Times for Capitalism, Socialists in Europe Suffer

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html

    In Bad Times for Capitalism, Socialists in Europe Suffer

    By STEVEN ERLANGER

    PARIS — A specter is haunting Europe — the specter of Socialism’s slow collapse.

    Even in the midst of one of the greatest challenges to capitalism in 75 years, involving a breakdown of the financial system due to “irrational exuberance,” greed and the weakness of regulatory systems, European Socialist parties and their left-wing cousins have not found a compelling response, let alone taken advantage of the right’s failures.

    German voters clobbered the Social Democratic Party on Sunday, giving it only 23 percent of the vote, its worst performance since World War II.

    Voters also punished left-leaning candidates in the summer’s European Parliament elections and trounced French Socialists in 2007. Where the left holds power, as in Spain and Britain, it is under attack. Where it is out, as in France, Italy and now Germany, it is divided and listless.

    Some American conservatives demonize President Obama’s fiscal stimulus and health care overhaul as a dangerous turn toward European-style Socialism — but it is Europe’s right, not left, that is setting its political agenda.

    Europe’s center-right parties have embraced many ideas of the left: generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the ceding of some sovereignty to the European Union. But they have won votes by promising to deliver more efficiently than the left, while working to lower taxes, improve financial regulation, and grapple with aging populations.

    Europe’s conservatives, says Michel Winock, a historian at the Paris Institut d’Études Politiques, “have adapted themselves to modernity.” When Nicolas Sarkozy of France and Germany’s Angela Merkel condemn the excesses of the “Anglo-Saxon model” of capitalism while praising the protective power of the state, they are using Socialist ideas that have become mainstream, he said.

    It is not that the left is irrelevant — it often represents the only viable opposition to established governments, and so benefits, as in the United States, from the normal cycle of electoral politics.

    In Portugal, the governing Socialists won re-election on Sunday, but lost an absolute parliamentary majority. In Spain, the Socialists still get credit for opposing both Franco and the Iraq war. In Germany, the broad left, including the Greens, has a structural majority in Parliament, but the Social Democrats, in postelection crisis, must contemplate allying with the hard left, Die Linke, which has roots in the old East German Communist Party.

    Part of the problem is the “wall in the head” between East and West Germans. While the Christian Democrats moved smoothly eastward, the Social Democrats of the West never joined with the Communists. “The two Germanys, one Socialist, one Communist — two souls — never really merged,” said Giovanni Sartori, a professor emeritus at Columbia University. “It explains why the S.P.D., which was always the major Socialist party in Europe, cannot really coalesce.”

    The situation in France is even worse for the left. Asked this summer if the party was dying, Bernard-Henri Lévy, an emblematic Socialist, answered: “No — it is already dead. No one, or nearly no one, dares to say it. But everyone, or nearly everyone, knows it.” While he was accused of exaggerating, given that the party is the largest in opposition and remains popular in local government, his words struck home.

    The Socialist Party, with a long revolutionary tradition and weakening ties to a diminishing working class, is riven by personal rivalries. The party last won the presidency in 1988, and in 2007, Ségolène Royal lost the presidency to Mr. Sarkozy by 6.1 percent, a large margin.

    With a reputation for flakiness, Ms. Royal narrowly lost the party leadership election last year to a more doctrinaire Socialist, Martine Aubry, by 102 votes out of 135,000. The ensuing allegations of fraud further chilled their relations.

    While Ms. Royal would like to move the Socialists to the center and explore a more formal coalition with the Greens and the Democratic Movement of François Bayrou, Ms. Aubry fears diluting the party. She is both famous and infamous for achieving the 35-hour workweek in the last Socialist government.

    The French Socialist Party “is trapped in a hopeless contradiction,” said Tony Judt, director of the Remarque Institute at New York University. It espouses a radical platform it cannot deliver; the result leaves space for parties to its left that can take as much as 15 percent of the vote.

    The party, at its summer retreat last month at La Rochelle, a coastal resort, still talked of “comrades” and “party militants.” Its seminars included “Internationalism at Globalized Capitalism’s Hour of Crisis.”

    But its infighting has drawn ridicule. Mr. Sarkozy told his party this month that he sent “a big thank-you” to Ms. Royal, “who is helping me a lot,” and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a prominent European Green politician, said “everyone has cheated” in the Socialist Party and accused Ms. Royal of acting like “an outraged young girl.”

    The internecine squabbling in France and elsewhere has done little to position Socialist parties to answer the question of the moment: how to preserve the welfare state amid slower growth and rising deficits. The Socialists have, in this contest, become conservatives, fighting to preserve systems that voters think need to be improved, though not abandoned.

    “The Socialists can’t adapt to the loss of their basic electorate, and with globalism, the welfare state can no longer exist in the same way,” Professor Sartori said.

    Enrico Letta, 43, is one of the hopes of Italy’s left, currently in disarray in the face of Silvio Berlusconi’s nationalist populism. “We have to understand that Socialism is an answer of the last century,” Mr. Letta said. “We need to build a center-left that is pragmatic, that provides an attractive alternative, and not just an opposition.”

    Mr. Letta argues that Socialist policies will have to be transmuted into a more fluid form to allow an alliance with center, liberal and green parties that won’t be called “Socialist.”

    Mr. Winock, the historian, said, “I think the left and Socialism in Europe still have work to do; they have a raison d’être, and they will have to rely more on environment issues.” Combined with continuing efforts to reduce income disparity, he said, “going green” may give the left more life.

    Mr. Judt argues that European Socialists need a new message — how to reform capitalism, “recognizing the centrality of economic interest while displacing it from its throne as the only way of talking about politics.”

    European Socialists need “to think a lot harder about what the state can and can’t do in the 21st century,” he said.

    Not an easy syllabus. But without that kind of reform, Mr. Judt said, “I don’t think Socialism in Europe has a future; and given that it is a core constitutive part of the European democratic consensus, that’s bad news.”
     
  2. deception

    deception JBB Banned Member

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    the european right has a lot more in common with dennis kucinich than dick cheney. for instance: in the g20 meetings- sarkozy and merkel are pushing hard for a clampdown on bonuses while your socialist and chief, president obama is apparently providing the opposition.
     
  3. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    What wasn't directly said in that article is that the Left won. Sarkozy, Merkel, Aznar and Cameron all embrace fundamental aspects of European Socialism. If you wonder why the Democrats are fighting so hard for socialized medicine, it's because of this reality. The "right" in Europe now accepts a massive role of government in day-to-day life; the debate is who can deliver it more efficiently.

    I don't want government in my life any more than is necessary. I couldn't care less what these politicians call themselves. Paraphrasing the words of Newsweek Magazine, "[They're] all Socialsts now."
     
  4. Nate4Prez

    Nate4Prez . . . .

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    I think it was directly said in the article: "Europe’s center-right parties have embraced many ideas of the left: generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the ceding of some sovereignty to the European Union. But they have won votes by promising to deliver more efficiently than the left, while working to lower taxes, improve financial regulation, and grapple with aging populations."

    Europe's right would probably be blasted and called liberals if they were American politicians. I mean, they don't even call them the Right, they refer to them as the center-right.
     
  5. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    America has no genuine Left, no Liberals, no Socialists.

    We're the very definition of Redneck.
     
  6. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Right. All that stuff was addressed. What wasn't addressed directly, however, is that the Left won the war. I don't want the same to happen in America. Government-run healthcare permanently changes the debate.
     
  7. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    Good news, Europe needs to get rid of socialism.
     
  8. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    It's too late. They're addicted to their cradle-to-grave nanny state like a tweaker in Felony Flats.
     
  9. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    They're so bad though, especially in the Balkans where I have more knowledge of politics there, they at times act like communists with the accusations they make, how they run govts, etc.

    ^ One of the reasons why I'm afraid our president here is turning the country into a socialist one, because America would loose its 'name', power, etc once that happens.
     
  10. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I know Scandinavia and Spain, and it's sad to see so many waste their lives because they know they'll always be taken care of. Robbing incentive not only hurts society at large, it hurts the individual.
     
  11. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    without the fear of god, who would be a good man?
     
  12. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I disagree. Some of the most noble people I know are athiests.
     
  13. zєяσ

    zєяσ Truth is beautiful

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    If one is doing good just to appease a god, then I would have doubt about their morals.

    Anywho, I haven't read the article yet, but I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark that when one of the most powerful nations in the world economically is damaged, I wouldn't be surprised that other countries get hit as well.

    Again, i haven't read the article yet, so take this post with a grain of salt, or whatever the expression is. :pimp:
     
  14. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    I meant that as an analogy. Without the fear of being homeless and not having healthcare, people would stop working?
     
  15. bluefrog

    bluefrog Go Blazers, GO!

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    Yeah, it's a wonder anything got done for the majority of human history before capitalism.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2661063/The-Sun-Says-Labours-lost-it.html

    The Sun Says: Labour’s lost it

    TWELVE years ago, Britain was crying out for change from a divided, exhausted Government. Today we are there again.

    In 1997, "New" Labour, shorn of its destructive hard-Left doctrines and with an energetic and charismatic leader, seemed the answer.

    Tony Blair said things could only get better, and few doubted him. But did they get better? Well, you could point to investment in schools and shorter hospital waiting lists and say yes, some things did - a little.

    But the real story of the Labour years is one of under-achievement, rank failure and a vast expansion of wasteful government interference in everyone's lives.

    Nobody can doubt the dedication of Gordon Brown - or the love and loyalty of his wife Sarah, who delivered a moving plea on his behalf yesterday.

    But nor can they disguise the failures of Labour in Government over the last 12 years, many of them embarrassingly laid bare by the PM's own words yesterday.

    Britain feels broken . . . and the Government is out of excuses.

    Blair took office with bulging coffers, an invincible majority and weak opposition, and he and Gordon Brown could have worked miracles.

    But they FAILED on law and order, their mantra "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" becoming a national joke. Knife murders are soaring. Smirking criminals routinely walk free in the name of political correctness, while decent people live in a virtual police state of snooping cameras and petty officials empowered to spy and to punish.

    Labour FAILED on schools. Yes, facilities improved - but four in 10 kids leave those shiny classrooms still unable to read, write or add up properly. We are plummeting down international league tables for maths and literacy, but every year "grade inflation" ensures record GCSE and A-level passes to fuel Government propaganda.

    Labour FAILED on health - spending billions on clipboard-ticking target managers instead of on frontline care.

    Labour FAILED on immigration, opening our borders without any regard to the consequences. Illegal migrants and bogus asylum seekers poured in.

    Labour FAILED the children they claimed to have made their priority. After 12 years of Blair and Brown, Britain is officially the WORST country in the developed world in which to grow up.

    [​IMG]
    More promises ... Gordon Brown after his speech at the Labour Party conference in Brighton

    Most disgracefully of all, Labour FAILED our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving them to die through chronic under-funding and the shambolic leadership of dismal Defence Secretaries like Bob Ainsworth.

    As our forces in two war zones suffered, the scale of Government waste at home was mind-boggling and tragic:

    Billions blown employing a useless layer of public service middle-managers like those who condemned Baby P to die.

    Billions more spent, insanely, making benefits more lucrative than a pay cheque - creating a huge, idle underclass for whom work is a dirty word. And all along the Government has had one overriding concern: Itself.

    Blair and Brown's puerile feud has long been a cancer at the heart of New Labour, their divisions often paralysing the country.

    Labour's driving ambition has not been to improve Britain. It has been to retain power at all costs - with no lie judged too great in its ruthless and relentless self-promotion.

    They promised a referendum on Europe. They claimed they had ended "boom and bust".

    They tried to con the public with promises of endless investment, when they knew they would have to cut.

    At the 2005 election, we and our readers believed Labour had many failings but gave them one last chance over a lacklustre Tory party.

    They have had that chance and failed.


    That is a fact Gordon Brown cannot escape, for all his rhetoric yesterday - his rewriting of history, his absurd caricature of the "heartless" Tories, his tired promises to solve problems he has had 12 years to solve.

    Britain needs a brave and wise Government to restore our self-respect, our natural entrepreneurship and the will of every family to improve its lot through its own efforts, without depending on handouts.

    We need a Government that will cut the red tape strangling businesses, that will make affordable tax cuts to stimulate growth, that will reform wasteful public services.

    We need a Government with a genuine will to win the war in Afghanistan and the commitment to give our forces whatever they need to do it.

    This will not be a Government that merely talks the talk, as Labour has. It will ACT.

    We hope, and pray, that the next Government will have the guts and the determination to do these things. And we believe David Cameron should lead it.

    Between now and the election Cameron's Conservatives must earn voters' trust by setting out their promising policies in detail.

    If elected, Cameron must use the same energy and determination with which he reinvigorated the Tory Party to breathe new life into Britain.

    That means genuine, radical change to encourage self-improvers, not wasting time on internal party wrangling or pandering to the forces of political correctness. It also means an honesty and transparency of Government that we have not seen for years.

    We are still a great people and, put to the test, will respond to the challenges we face.

    The Sun believes - and prays - that the Conservative leadership can put the great back into Great Britain.
     
  17. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I heard about that Sun article last night on the BBC. The commentator described the timing as "cruel". Evidentally, there is some big Labour meeting going on right now; from what I could tell it's their equivalent of a party national convention.

    So, if I read that article right, The Sun seems to be saying "David Cameron: Yes We Can". :dunno:
     

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