Postal Service an Indicator of potential Healthcare System?

I send letters daily to residences all over the country. I don't think I've ever had one take longer than 3 days to get there. Out of tens of thousands of letters. I've never had a piece of mail lost.

Since Fedex and UDP charge 3-6 times that $3 to deliver an "urgent letter", in the same time the USPS gets it there2-3 days, it's obvious this right-wing think-tank libertarian is talking out his ass, much like his standard article template requires.

http://www.capmag.com/author.asp?ID=69

 

Profitability? No. But they can't just bleed money. They need to break even. Again, USPS is not a typical government agency. They can't just spend till their eyes bleed.

You also have to remember that USPS, all of its infrastructure, operations, etc. were geared for many decades towards delivering the standard letter. Then UPS/Fed Ex got big and they shifted some of the resource towards packages and kept the letters as a money base. Then as email crept up more and more, letters fell way off. Unlike UPS and FedEx, the USPS just can't stop delivering letters because they don't feel it's profitable enough. There are two sides of the coin here.

Also, USPS and FedEx (and most big businesses) continually have their eyes on that stock price. The stock price dumps 1/10th of a cent and, regardless of the "efficiency" of their operation, they start laying people off to jack the price back up. You take the stock market and its wild psychotic effect out of the equation with all private insurers and then we'll talk.

Some private programs pay people to sit in a room doing nothing. I know because I worked at a few of them and watched those people. Some public programs DON'T pay people to sit in a room, doing nothing. So what's your point? You can't make a statement about one program, at one time in its existence and apply it to all of government at all times.

But it may be cheaper. And there will still be private supplemental plans no matter which option is chosen so if you're making enough money you can keep your private doctors. Where's the problem?

 

I'm glad you admit that typical government agencies "spend till their eyes bleed".

You've just realized the problem. Thank you.

Everybody understands why USPS is struggling right now. It is a perfect example of a government program that is too slow to react to changing times, so when it becomes obsolete or out of date, we just keep pumping money into it.

I'd like to see some evidence that this won't happen to healthcare like it does in every other government program.

When a private company pays people to sit in a room doing nothing, who pays for that?

When a public company pays people to sit in a room doing nothing, who pays for that?

That is the point.

 

After the last 5 years of childlike leadership of nearly every large business in our company, resulting in a near total collapse of capitalism in America, you want to completely privatize something as important and dangerous as the mail?

I can think of more constructive, more patriotic, and more profitable things to spend your free time campaigning for.

 

Are you talking to anybody in particular, or just wasting time making random strawmen?

 

Some departments do spend till their eyes bleed because they're so afraid of their budget getting cut. They get thousands of people clamoring each year for government to cut spending everywhere. Every one has a gripe about some department. Yet it seems to be a lot of the social services that get targeted first.

Except that's totally false as well as contradictory to what I was stating. What I said is the USPS was forced into investing into one main area because it's required to - that's what it was setup to do. The USPS is not subsidized. It is also mandated to not make a profit.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/uspsabout.htm

A very interesting article from 1998...

http://www.slate.com/id/1095/

You also don't seem to fully understand why the USPS is struggling right now as well. One of the primary reasons the USPS is in deficit mode right now is because of a 2006 law that requires the USPS to pay more than $5billion a year until 2016 to cover future retiree health benefits. No other agency has this requirement.

That's a bold statement. Can you provide a link to show that this happens in every other government program?

You do. You do.

The only difference is one is through taxes. The other is through prices / stocks.

 

Is the government taking over all health care in the U.S.? Honestly, work's been killing me, my one year old keeps me busy when I'm home and I'm admittedly out of the loop, but I didn't think this was the plan. So my employer won't have to worry about coverage for me and my family any more? I'd thought that portions would still be private and some would be covered by Uncle Sam.

If that's the case, then I can see your view for sure. Medicine that's completely socialized sounds like a train wreck to me. While the system is far from perfect now, I really doubt the government would be able to improve on it.

As I last understood it, consensus was that it would be a combination of old system (for profit) and new (subsidized by gov't). This thread makes it sound like it's a complete government take over of the healthcare system and, last I heard, that's a bunch of hooey. Like I said, maybe I've missed something over the last month.

Do I really think the government would do a better job providing insurance coverage for people currently covered by private insurance? No. I'd say let the for-profit companies work their capitalist magic.

Do you really think for-profit companies would have the ability (even interest to pursue a line of business) to provide coverage for people who currently can't get insurance because of pre-existing illnesses or can't afford it? This is the space that likely will need to be provided by the gov't or, at the very least, the gov't applying sufficiently powerful incentives and disincentives to for-profits to make it worth their while.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this thread seems like it's oversimplistic and designed to do nothing more than get people fired up in nonconstructive ways. Getting people fired up is cheap, easy and a waste of time. What we need is fair and honest communication that works toward solutions.

And anyway, how many gov't programs directly (and I mean directly) compete with for-profit companies? A fair list should exclude companies that narrow their services to help profitibility compared to gov't programs that keep broadened services for the public good (eg, the mailman comes to my house to check for letters and packages 6 days a week, but the Fedex guy doesn't.) Last thing, if for-profit companies are so great, why don't we hand over the federal gov't to them? Maybe give Google the White House?

 

And with the postal system, if you don't like it you can use USPS. This isn't the end of private insurance. If private insurance is so dang efficient then they'll have no problems staying alive against this horrible government sponsored insurance, right?

I think a better way to look at this is that things are going to change. That is almost 100% certain. People can whine and moan and say this is horrible, we shouldn't do X, Y, Z but that almost never works on either side of the aisle. It would be far better, IMHO, to offer up some constructive suggestions for ways to improve what WILL change.

 

The argument I always hear against single payer is that health care will be rationed or there will be long waiting periods; however both these things already exist and will continue to exist public or private. Currently, the system is rationed so only people who can afford it or who qualify for Medicaid can access it without going into horrible debt. I don't care much if rich people will still be able to buy better care and jump the line, but I want at least that the rest of us can get care too. The other argument I always hear is the fear of government bureaucracy. Again, the current system is already a bureaucracy. I would much rather deal with a government one because then I can hold my congressman and senators accountable at the ballot box. Also campaign finance reform would help plenty too. With so many lobbyists it almost seems the government is already privatized. Your insurance chooses to cover or not cover certain treatments and quite often the decisions on what is covered or not covered is not made by your doctor but someone in an office. The only difference is that in public care, turning a profit is not a priority. The current system has great health care tools, but only if you could afford it.

Another thing I hear is that everyone will be forced into the public system. Again, totally absurd. Every single European nation has universal health care and every single one has a thriving private health care industry, where people who have the money can go to get care (usually identical to public care, just with less waiting). I also find it strange that people can simultaneously think that public care is this awful third-world terrible medicine that on the other hand will completely wipe out private care if it is allowed to compete.

Now does this mean i support the current plans? No. I'm for a public option. But health insurance reforms proposed right now do not really address the issues. Sure, with the reforms everyone will probably be covered and companies cannot drop coverage due to pre-existing conditions, having mandates, and the like. But, the current proposals primarily focus on more care, not better care. What incentives do the companies and government have to improve health care for the citizens? How are we going to stop incentives for doctors to more and more care over the better care? Will there be cost-effectiveness research (the gang of six just made amendments to discourage that)? How will they ease the implementation of the new plan? Medicaid roles will grow because you are subsidizing more people and you will be covering people who did not have insurance before. Plus you gotta remember that consumers will have a hard time seeing the benefits because of taxes going up. You have to prepare the people for that don't you? And where the hell are the incentives for prevention? Isn't one cost-effective way is people not getting sick as much? I think that if we are living in a country where the government is allowed to tell us what to do at every turn and make laws for our own good the least they should be required is to offer basic health care to everyone. In that way I don’t think this plan is nearly enough. It would only make insurance available to more people. There would still be people who are uninsured, and just because you have insurance doesn’t mean you can afford the deductible much less your percentage of the extortionate bill. I guess a public plan may be a step in the right direction, but without that option it would be government mandated support of insurance companies. I do not believe it is the purpose of health care to profit off of one's suffering.

 

That is true for the USPS, but for many government programs, we don't have a choice whether to fund them with our tax dollars or not.

Is there a strict stipulation that the entire government-run healthcare option must be at least profit-neutral? Will this be strictly enforced and upheld? If not, how could a private company that has to make a profit compete with a government program that can just keep feeding itself with tax payer money?

 

What are the major pieces?

 

An interesting stat I heard from Senator Michael Bennett in a town hall meeting was that if you wrung every cent of profit from insurance companies, it would pay for four days of health care in a year, or 1.09589%.

And yet there's a hue and cry for a public option, but not tort reform? Hmm.

 

So if I don't want to fund more than a meager Army to simply defend the homeland I can opt out of the rest of the defense budget? Or if I choose not to fund infrastructure investment because I don't care if roads and bridges crap out I can do that? Again, every person has a gripe with some portion of government / some agency. I understand the frustration that some people feel like government is everywhere but I think some perspective when comparing it to other countries who really are that way is in order.

Since the final bill hasn't been signed off on I'm at a disadvantage to declare it one way or the other. But a non-profit coop would be, by legal requirements, held to that standard. Can you think of a government agency or program that is pro-profit? You seem to be, correct me if I am wrong, making a wild assertion that suddenly this government program is going to become this gigantic force independent of government control and laws, start sucking down money, going for profit, and living merely to target private companies. I simply don't think that is the case.