Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC @ Apr 21 2006, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> :no3: :thumbdn1: Is that so? The Suns would be lottery without Steve NashTake Dirk from the Mavericks you still have a decent team.Lebron and Kobe I agree are more valuable to there teams.The Heat can still make the playoffs without D-WadeBillups? Wow just wow.Even without Billups Detroit would be one of the best teams in the East.</div>The mavs would be lottery bound as well. Just look at the lineup. Last night proved it early. Terry, Griffin, Howard, Powell, and Diop. They can't score and still struggle a little on defense. Wade is more valuable than most think. The Heat would go like 5-15 without Shaq instead of 10-10 so I doubt they make the playoffs. The Pistons without Billups would be around 44-38 which is 20 games less than they are now. So the point is that without Nash the suns would struggle but for those other teams they would struggle more.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 20 2006, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The mavs would be lottery bound as well. Just look at the lineup. Last night proved it early. Terry, Griffin, Howard, Powell, and Diop. They can't score and still struggle a little on defense. Wade is more valuable than most think. The Heat would go like 5-15 without Shaq instead of 10-10 so I doubt they make the playoffs. The Pistons without Billups would be around 44-38 which is 20 games less than they are now. So the point is that Nash without Nash the suns would struggle but for those other teams they would struggle more or wouldn't accomplish at the same level.</div>The Mavs have won 60 games,and that game you are talking about is the last game of the season no?The eastern conference is weak so both the Heat and Pistons would've made the playoffs easily.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Shaq was out 20 games. If Wade wasn't there along with Shaq being injured the Heat are in trouble. The Pistons without their general wouldn't be the same. Arrojo, Hunter, or Delk can't run the team like Billups. The Pistons would struggle with losing offense and defense.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>So the point is that without Nash the suns would struggle but for those other teams they would struggle more.</div>How do you figure?Do you realize how bad that team would be without Nash?Leandro BarbosoRaja Bell Shawn MarionBoris DiawKurt Thomas.Sure that team looks good wit the stats those guys are putting up now but without Nash none of that would be possible.
Re: Who's the MVP?? That suns team is good enough for the 8th seed. Not any better but Diaw, Barbosa, and House to run the point Phoenix would find a way to make the playoffs. Phoenix has a lot of good outside shooters so I don't doubt they could do it without Nash. The floor spacing will still be the same.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Diaw is a SF Barbosa running the point? Youve gotta be kidding me. The guy is getting better but he cannot run a team period. Duh man, how do you think they make so many 3 pointers. Because of Nash. He draws the defense in and then dishes it to the open man for the 3 ball. Without Nash, most of that would not happen as well.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>That suns team is good enough for the 8th seed. Not any better but Diaw, Barbosa, and House to run the point Phoenix would find a way to make the playoffs. Phoenix has a lot of good outside shooters so I don't doubt they could do it without Nash. The floor spacing will still be the same.</div>None of those guys are true PG's. Both exel as off guards.Floor spacing wont matter if they dont have anybody to find them for the open look.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 21 2006, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That suns team is good enough for the 8th seed. Not any better but Diaw, Barbosa, and House to run the point Phoenix would find a way to make the playoffs. Phoenix has a lot of good outside shooters so I don't doubt they could do it without Nash. The floor spacing will still be the same.</div>I have not doubt the Suns would be in the lottery right now if Steve Nash was not on their team. Its just crazy to say they would make the playoffs with that roster right now.Even with Amare healthy, it would be hard for them to make it in the west. The Mavs on the other hand, i can see them making it without Dirk. Of course they wouldn't be winning 60 games, but 45 could easily be done. I know they dont have a lot of depth behind Dirk, but this lineup would still be able to make the playoffs.C-DiopF-Kieth Van HornF-HowardG-TerryG-DanielsPlus it takes away from your agrument when you say argue that Dallas has the best bench in the nba. You said they had the best bench so i pretty sure they could fill in that 4 spot and keep above .500 for a season.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Like I said Diaw is a point forward or center and Nash hasn't had to do as much as a point guard this year as last year thanks to him. Barbosa would still get to play off the ball thanks to Diaw and Bell's defense and outside shooting was his strength last year with Utah as well before Nash.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts @ Apr 21 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have not doubt the Suns would be in the lottery right now if Steve Nash was not on their team. Its just crazy to say they would make the playoffs with that roster right now.Even with Amare healthy, it would be hard for them to make it in the west. The Mavs on the other hand, i can see them making it without Dirk. Of course they wouldn't be winning 60 games, but 45 could easily be done. I know they dont have a lot of depth behind Dirk, but this lineup would still be able to make the playoffs.C-DiopF-Kieth Van HornF-HowardG-TerryG-DanielsPlus it takes away from your agrument when you say argue that Dallas has the best bench in the nba. You said they had the best bench so i pretty sure they could fill in that 4 spot and keep above .500 for a season.</div>Van Horn is injured now and he was <Censored> this year. Stop making him more than he is. I only wish Daniels was the starting 2 guard. Still Dallas would struggle with having a go to guy and that is not any better of a lineup than what Utah has right now.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 21 2006, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Van Horn is injured now and he was <Censored> this year. Stop making him more than he is. I only wish Daniels was the starting 2 guard. Still Dallas would struggle with having a go to guy and that is not any better of a lineup than what Utah has right now.</div>That doesnt dispute the fact that he would be the starting 4 if dirk wasnt on the team. What?? would you rather have Josh Powell or DJ Mbenga starting at the 4?Or better yet, would the Diop and Dampier be better than Keith Van Horn at the 4 spot. No one else would be better than Van Horn at the 4 spot on a Dirk-less Maverick team. Plus 1 lousy season doesnt make him a <Censored> player.
Re: Who's the MVP?? It goes from bad playoff series to now 1 bad season. Van Horn really is impressing me now. What he did earlier in his career doesn't mean <Censored> now. Dallas is nothing without Dirk. They can go without Howard and struggle by being a 500 team or slightly better but without Dirk no one will get good looks since Terry is not a pure point guard and Van Horn has been a disappointment along with being injured a lot. Dallas doesn't make the playoffs with those 2 things happening. Stackhouse shooting more is a bad thing btw.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Thank you for speaking the truth mavsfan. And to say the Suns wouldn't make it even with Amare back and healthy is a stupid statement. They would easily make it and have the 5th seed or win their division if they started out the season like that.
Re: Who's the MVP?? I dont understand how you can have a double standard. You say of course the suns would be in the playoffs if Nash was off the team and Amare was healthy. But when i say that Van Horn would be in the place of Dirk if he wasnt on the team, you say he was injured most of the season. I dont care if Amare is healthy, they still wouldnt make the playoffs. Plain and simple. The Mavericks are better without Dirk than the Suns are without Nash. Amare healthy or not. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Thank you for speaking the truth mavsfan. And to say the Suns wouldn't make it even with Amare back and healthy is a stupid statement. They would easily make it and have the 5th seed or win their division if they started out the season like that.</div>The Clippers would take the division.This is what the playoffs would look like if the Suns were Nash-less. 1.Spurs2.Clippers3.Nuggets4.Mavs5.Grizzilies6.Lakers7.Kings8.Jazz or Hornets
Re: Who's the MVP?? Diaw might be a small forward but what he has done this year has taken a lot off the pressure off of Nash. Diaw playing at center is a mismatch that usually favors Diaw over opposing centers. The suns would be better than the Jazz or Hornets. Without Diaw the suns don't make the playoffs. Also Marion>Howard which is Dallas's second best player. Should I say more? Bell>Daniels.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Well I think you hate the Suns and are a big homer pjcolpitts, BUT one thing I do agree with you is that I wouldn't say my team would be bad without a player just to get an MVP award. I just think Nash's value is overrated this year. He is important because he is our PG but not nearly as important as everyone thinks. Take it from a guy that saw most of the games, and take it from mavsfan who saw games when the Suns played better without Nash, especially when I pointed it out to him. Haha, remember that Mavs? And it's crazy how people think Nash is working some kind of magic and making the team better when Marion's stats barely changed and he is in his prime now so of course he's going to improve. Amare last season got better but it was his third year which is when most young players start playing well. Barbosa is in his third year and Nash didn't improve Barbosa's play last year. Barbosa just got better. Eddie House plays mostly without Nash. Kurt Thomas and Diaw's skills are not scoring really, but other things. Bell improved his 3-point shooting by only a couple percent. And Tim Thomas is playing for his contract next year.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Apr 20 2006, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diaw is a SF Barbosa running the point? Youve gotta be kidding me. The guy is getting better but he cannot run a team period. Duh man, how do you think they make so many 3 pointers. Because of Nash. He draws the defense in and then dishes it to the open man for the 3 ball. Without Nash, most of that would not happen as well.</div>That would probably be his position but he has been playing center a lot and played PF most of the season with Marion at SF.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArizonaFan @ Apr 21 2006, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well I think you hate the Suns and are a big homer pjcolpitts, BUT one thing I do agree with you is that I wouldn't say my team would be bad without a player just to get an MVP award. I just think Nash's value is overrated this year. He is important because he is our PG but not nearly as important as everyone thinks. Take it from a guy that saw most of the games, and take it from mavsfan who saw games when the Suns played better without Nash, especially when I pointed it out to him. Haha, remember that Mavs? And it's crazy how people think Nash is working some kind of magic and making the team better when Marion's stats barely changed and he is in his prime now so of course he's going to improve. Amare last season got better but it was his third year which is when most young players start playing well. Barbosa is in his third year and Nash didn't improve Barbosa's play last year. Barbosa just got better. Eddie House plays mostly without Nash. Kurt Thomas and Diaw's skills are not scoring really, but other things. Bell improved his 3-point shooting by only a couple percent. And Tim Thomas is playing for his contract next year.</div>Your calling me a homer?!? You have it all wrong, the only reason Mavsfan is saying that Nash isnt as important as Dirk is because he thinks Dirk is the MVP. I dont hate the Suns, i just dont think they are that good without Nash. I see them give up leads when Nash is out of the game. Example: They are playing the Mavericks. Suns are up double digits in the 4th quarter. Nash is out of the game. They give up the double digit lead and its in single digits within minutes. Nash goes back out and they get back into double digits within a matter of minutes and preserve the win. 2. Look at the roster. There is no way in hell that you can say that this roster is as good as the Kings, Grizzilies, Lakers, or Jazz without Nash out there. All of those teams can actaully rebound and play defense. Without Nash out there, it would be total chaos. They would be able to win by running the ball if Nash wasnt on the team. they would be a regular team. Crying out loud. C-Kurt ThomasF-MarionF-DiawG-BellG-BarbosaGrizziliesC-Lorenzen WrightF-Pau GasolF-Shane BattierG-Eddie JonesG-AtkinsLakersC-Kwame Brown. Chris MihmF-Brian CookF-Lamar OdomG-Kobe BryantG-Smush ParkerJazzC-Mehmet OkurF-BoozerF-Ak-47G-Gordan GiricekG-Deron WilliamsI think all of those Lineups are better than The Nash-less Suns and would pass them in the west.
Re: Who's the MVP?? I know why Mavs is saying that. He also saw the Suns Mavs games were the Suns were having trouble, Nash left, they built their lead, Nash came back, they lost the lead, Nash left, they built their lead again. That team would be better. I think those players are underrated because of Nash being here.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Did I mention the Suns have a deep bench as well? Eddie House, James Jones, Tim Thomas and Brian Grant. 9 man rotation is good enough. If you watched the suns you would see many times they play better without Nash in stretches of a game. That shouldn't happen if you are the MVP or close to one. I changed my mind or Dirk being MVP though. I think it is Lebron since he means the most to his team.
Re: Who's the MVP?? There have been sooooo many games were the Suns have played better without Nash, but only a few out of their 10-12 on national TV. He did a great job showing off to the voters. And don't forget the Suns would have gotten someone if they didn't get Nash. If we had another decent passing point guard we wouldn't do much worse.
