but the PGE Park deal is only getting more ridiculous. It was bad enough that we are going to kick the baseball team out of a baseball stadium so we can turn the aging baseball stadium into a soccer stadium. And because the baseball team is now homeless we're going to build them a new baseball stadium. But now it gets better, MLS is talking about changing the time of year when it plays so it's telling it's owners that they should start thinking about putting roofs over their soccer stadiums. LOL!! So we're going to pay to change a baseball stadium into a soccer stadium but we still have to finish paying for the last remodel of the baseball stadium, plus we get to pay to build a new baseball stadium and then we get to pay to remodel the old baseball stadium that has been turned into a soccer stadium again so that it can have a roof over it. Makes perfect sense to me. Is PGE Park even structurally sound enough to have a roof put on top of it? http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/123015
First off, PGE Park/Civic Stadium was never built to be a baseball stadium. It's true that's been its primary tenant, but that stadium is not for baseball fans. Second, you'll have to excuse me while the complaints of Portland AAA baseball fans are falling on deaf ears. Where were these people when the Beavers were averaging less than 3,000 fans per game? Where were these people when the City of Portland was having very open, very public negotiations about this deal? Timbers fans have been showing up to soccer matches and city council meetings en masse to voice their support for professional soccer. Third, as far as the roof issue goes, if you read what MLS is saying, they are talking about the stadiums in true winter climates. Denver. Boston. Columbus. Salt Lake City. Chicago. Nobody is concerned about 18 inches of snow making pitch conditions impossible in Portland. The important thing is making sure the seats are mostly covered for optimal fan experience, which the plans for a remodeled PGE Park already incorporate.
LOL! I'm aware of the history of PGE Park. The site was originally a small stadium for the MAC Club. It's was rebuilt into a baseball stadium since the 1950's. It's a baseball stadium. But the worst part of this entire argument/process is that it never should have been Soccer vs Baseball at PGE Park. It has not been a very public negotiation. The contract to remodel the stadium is a no bid contract that went to an out of state company and was signed before the public ever got to have a say in it. Adams and Randy have played things fast and loose with the facts, costs and every other detail about this. A remodeled PGE Park will not be up to the standards of other MLS stadiums. It won't have enough bathrooms, concessions and amenities. Why not leave PGE Park alone and just build a new soccer stadium? There are some nice areas available. The downtown post office wants to move their main branch to the airport. That site could be available. Industrial NW is available, you know that dying industrial area that sits between Forrest Park and the Willamete River. The area that the Wall Street Journal said was the most valuable under developed commercial real estate on the west coast in an article a few years ago. Or there is the Portland Meadows/Delta Park site. Here's an idea, why not build the Timbers a new soccer stadium? Why spend $ on remodeling a baseball stadium and building a new baseball stadium when you could just build a soccer stadium?
Because it's significantly less expensive to remodel PGE Park into a soccer-specific stadium and share with Portland State football than it is to build an entirely new stadium from the ground up. That's the simple answer.
I'm guessing MLS is talking different times of year, to better coencide (sp?) with the Premier League, and other European leagues?
Really? You know this because how? The last major construction project that Sam Adams oversaw came in at 4x over budget. Not 4%, not 40% but 400% over budget. It was budgeted to be a $15million project and when it was done it ended up costing $57mill. His idea for a for an inexpensive pedestrian/bicycle only bridge across the Willamete river just got canceled because the bids to build it came in 60% higher than projected. Just last month Paulsen went to the city of Beaverton and told them it would cost $30mill to build a new baseball stadium, the city asked for preliminary bids and the price they get back is $45-50mill. And so you're telling me that with no actual architectural plans drawn up, just drawings of what an artist thinks the completed project will look like and a no bid construction contract that's been already given to an out of state company you know what this project is going to cost? Again, I'm not anti soccer or anti MLS. I just think that our mayor and Leonard don't have a clue as to what they are doing and I don't think that all of the options have been looked. In 2001 the city spent $35 million to upgrade and improve PGE Park (which we still owe $26mill on). Now they are telling us they can convert it into an entirely different type of stadium for $31 million. Does that make sense to you? Toronto just built a MLS soccer only stadium for $60mill. A brand new stadium. Soccer only. MLS. But you think $50mill for a minor league baseball stadium and lets go ahead and say that it will only cost $31mill to remodel PGE Park (which is laughable). It will still be and always be a converted baseball stadium. But you think that is cheaper than building a new soccer stadium... Simple answers are fun but not always accurate.
See, if they stick to my plan of truning the MC into a +/- 25,000 covered stadium for football/soccer, then all our problems would be solved.
I'm just fine and dandy Thank ya. Getting pumped for the season.. and pumped about my Football teams doing well. Its crazy how long ago the Boise St game seems lol. How the hell have you been?
Bottom line ... remodeling PGE for soccer is the cheapest option. Keeping the Beavers in a 25,000 seat stadium when they are drawing 2,750 a game is ridiculous. These options have all been discussed. For months. The NIMBY's are being loud now, but their points are even less valid now than they were during the negotiation process when they were all shot down months ago. I suggest you go to the city of Portland web site and look at some of the council meeting minutes from back in March when this was decided.
A couple of losses by some teams and Boise St and the Ducks could meet up again for the national championship, lol!! Doing better, I had the flu end of last week/weekend. Not sure if it was N1H1 but it sucked.
lol I wouldnt mind another shot at BSU, this is a different team than week 1. But I also said that a few weeks after last loss to them lol. But I'll take a hopeful Rose Bowl berth against Iowa probably. That sucks about the flu.. I had it a few weeks ago and yes it sucked big time. Fortunately not Pig flu though. Gonna be at the RG on Tuesday?
I have looked at this and read the city's website. And again, how do we know this is the cheapest option? I just gave you real numbers and this is what you come back with? And I'm a NIMBY because I think the Timbers, the fans and the taxpayers would be better served by building the Timbers a brand new stadium? The points I bring up were brought up in March also, they were valid then and they are valid now. Let me ask you this, if there wasn't a chance for us to get a MLS franchise would you really give a chit how few people went to Beaver's games? If PGE Park can pay it's debts and Paulsen can make a profit does it really matter that there were only 2,700 people in a 25,000 seat stadium? Again, I'm not being anti soccer which is what you are trying to turn this into. This stadium deal doesn't make sense. We can have a new state of the art soccer stadium for less or the same amount of money as it would to convert an old stadium and build a new one. If Adams and Randy would have been in charge when the Rose Garden was being built they would have instead expanded the MC for the Blazers and built a smaller arena for the Winterhawks. It might have been cheaper but do you think we'd still have the Blazers in Portland today? And if we did, do you think no matter much they spent on remodeling the MC it would be as nice as the RG? So you think spending $50mill on a new baseball stadium so 2,700 fans can not feel so alone is a good use of taxpayer money? Hey, why not spend anymore money on those 2,700 people and spend $70million on a facility for the 25,000 that turnout to see the Timbers? Oh wait, that makes me a NIMBY.
They can build it in my backyard, if you don't want it in yours. I doubt it would make for exciting soccer with suck a small field. And spectators would be limited to people peering ou tmy back windows, but I would allow it. For a small fee.
Not exactly correct. They are thinking of changing the schedule to better fit with FIFA's international schedule. UEFA leagues have off weekends for World Cup qualifying, MLS does not. Not to mention the month next season where all of the best MLS players who are on the National team will be in South Africa.
Two things: 1) Close-in Portland is absolutely integral to the success of Major League Soccer. All of the most successful stadia in the MLS are in the central city. Suburban McDonald-land Stadium is not going to give the team its best chance at long-term success. 2) Following #1, there are zero cost-effective options for building a brand new stadium from the ground up close-in Portland. All of the possible sites (Post Office on NW Hoyt, Terminal 1, Memorial Coliseum, PPS Blanchard Site) are politically or financially impossible. Not to mention Merritt Paulson has a lease agreement with the city of Portland to make rent payments on PGE Park. I'd think he'd want the most financially viable use of that park as possible. Keeping the Beavers in there to play in an unoccupied cavern while building a new $70 million facility out between a Target and a Best Buy for a soccer team is not only more expensive, it's also stupid.
Not to mention if the league wants to boast great players from Europe, they have to contend with the Euro Championships in even-numbered years between World Cups. And if they want great players from South America, they have to contend with the Copa America tournament in 2011, 2015, 2019, 2023, etc. Both of those tournaments, like the World Cup, take place during the middle of the MLS season.
