Shaquille O'Neal? Tim Duncan? Kevin Garnett? LeBron James? At least one of those four have had very strong cases to be considered the best player in the league in the majority of seasons (if not all seasons) since 99-00. That's what I mean when I say Kobe has not elevated himself above his peers the way Michael Jordan did. This is what distinguishes him in the GOAT discussions.
Definitely not LeBron James. I'm not sure what to make of KG because as great as he was statistically and could impact a game on both ends of the floor it never translated into much post season success. Shaq was still a dominating force in the league, but I would never consider him the best player in the league during any point of his career. Kobe really came into his own during that playoff run and established himself as the best player in the game. I'd rank Duncan second to Kobe.
How does Jordan compare statistically against his peers? Magic, Bird, Wilkins, Barkley, Karl Malone & Hakeem?
I'll put it this way, and you can draw your own conclusion. From 86-87 through 97-98, Jordan's PER was 29.4 on average. That's over 12 seasons. Magic Johnson's top two PER seasons was 26.9 and 26.6. Bird's was 26.5 and 26.4. Wilkins's was 24.6 and 24.3. Malone's was 28.9 and 27.9. Hakeem's was 27.3 and 26.0.
LeBron has a case for the last 3 years or so. Shaq has a very strong case for all the years spanning LA's first championship run. Duncan or Garnett have a case in years in between. Duncan, in particular has a case to be considered the league's best player in a number of different seasons in the past decade. Kobe has a case as well. One may argue that Kobe is the best player over the last decade. That's not what I'm disputing right now (though I'd say its Duncan). The point I'm trying to make is that he hasn't separated himself the way Jordan did.
I don't like using PER because it is weighted heavily on players who have games predicated on scoring closer to the basket and playing in the paint. Here's a link to the Top 10 All-Time Career PER. Larry Bird is 18 on the list. Would you consider him a worse player than those listed above him? I'm not going to argue Kobe is or should ever be considered a better player than Jordan. There's nothing Kobe's done to support it. Jordan has better stats, more accomplishments and more MVPs and of course more rings.
No, but if we're talking about statistical dominance that case could be made. There's a lot of things stats don't show. Jordan was a guard, and he played away from the basket much more than many forwards/centers. I don't think we can explain away his statistical dominance, by PER, with the bias you refer to. I agree.
i cant disagree with you on that i remember kobe saying to a reporter during the beijing olympics when asked if his performance in that game was an issue (kobe was 6-18fgs i think)... he said "we won didn't we". in my opinion, thats just basktball, or any other sport for that matter. a team could be playing beautiful and efficient basketball and end up losing. yes it was a positive note that the team who lost was executing well and stuff, but at the end of the day what do you try to do? you try to win. "whatever" it takes right? as stated by some of the greats. a W is a W. Btw, id like to give my 2 cents on the jordan - kobe thing. i think Jordan was the clear # 1 for a specific period of time because this was when basketball was in its transition stage. When MJ was new, he wasn't even considered the best bec. Bird, Magic were still good. But as these guys got old, Jordan reached his prime with NO ONE in the league to contest him because they were either too old, too young or did not have the skills to do so. you don't see that nowadays with all the emerging talent and everyone copying everyone else's training routines, moves, etc... everyone can do everything, its just a matter if they can deliver when given the chance to do so.
You massaged an example to prove your case. Your Team A and B example is worthless, I'm speaking in general. True Shooting percentage is one component for example, being superior depends on various factors though and not just TS%. Similarly time per possession is just one component that is important, but not the end-all. In bron's case he plays in an offense that pads his PER in an extra fashion. I'm sure basketball-reference would like to eliminate that little inconvenient fact.
Basketball-reference just tweaked win shares because they felt fast-paced offenses was getting an advantage with "marginal points", they do care about what type of system one plays in.
You made a fuss over 30/6/5 last year, some random arbitrary number for Bryant in 36 minutes a game. Something completely unreasonable for this team, and unnecessary. Per assumes one uses the same amount of time per possession, it simply estimates in that case. It doesn't have the precise figures 82games.com has. Nor do Bigs create shots at the same rate as guards. It has constantly been tweaked.
Shape, Shaq's PER is also miscalculated IIRC. He doesn't create his buckets as much as a guard, but PER does not usually take that into account. Nor is he as durable which I've always had a problem with. LeBron has to play in a certain manner to attain his per, there are chemistry issues outside of his offense. Also he hasn't done anything before 2003 so he shouldn't be in the discussion. His defense didn't really do anything for me until a couple of years ago, maybe.
If you're serious, specify a revised formula that's more accurate using the "precise figures" from 82games. Then we'll see who the top players in the league are according to your "true" PER. I can think of at least two reasons why you can't do it.
Nah son, I don't feel like it. Why should I? Have I said how boring this is to me? Anyway... Did you know, Andre Agassi used to wear a hairpiece? Says it even cost him a couple of important matches! Wow. :O Crystal meth doesn't really offend me personally. http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=ys-agassi_wig&prov=afp&type=lgns Personally, I'd cut him so slack. Poor dude, had no idea he was struggling with that. He's a great 4 surface player.
Stay safe today. :[ (Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa, editing by Anthony Boadle) http://health.yahoo.com/news/reuters/us_flu_usa.html
Yeah co-signing is always dubious, I would not suggest it to anyone. http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/108019/hair-raising-money-tales?mod=bb-budgeting
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