And thank you to the majority of young men in the late 1960s, who stayed out of the Vietnam War. More than 50% of us did not volunteer or get drafted, despite appearances and later claims to the contrary that the majority were behind the war. It wasn't easy to stay out, after I passed the daylong draft exam while trying to flunk. Now my cousin, he joined and was an Army lieutenant. My late cousin. Came back and promptly died from a rare brain cancer in his mid-30s. A few months later, Agent Orange hit the media. Too late for an autopsy. Up the street from me in the late 60s lived the Merritt family. The kids looked like hippies. Their mother lived with her boyfriend on her husband's paycheck. He was a POW, an officer. Meanwhile, my father received his Colonel's pension...My uncle had been president of the national Air Force Association...But enough about me. Thank you to those who went to jail over the draft issue. And to the many who were drafted as punishment for demonstrating. One went to my church.
Hear Hear. My father lost his leg and severely damaged his body for our country. Of all the people, I would suspect he would have a right to complain, yet he was a true patriot and always backed the USA.
Okay this is off topic, obviously, but my father was proud to serve our country in the Vietnam War. He volunteered twice. I understand many disagreed with the war, but please don't discredit the ones that cared about this war.
I'd add another big thanks to our service men and women for defending our freedoms, so some can get on their soapbox on Veterans day and sing the praises of draft dodgers. Might as well thank you for defending our right to spit on our military men when they returned from Vietnam, too. In many countries they just kill you for that shit.
And in some countries they rely upon veiled violent threats. Most college students by the late 60s were draft dodgers, and many non students too. For example--My roommate was disappointed to be at our college, because he was a high school valedictorian who had been turned down by the Air Force Academy. Yet when the first lottery happened, and he got a high number, he immediately did all he could to stay out of the draft. He didn't want his now-civilian career delayed. That's an illustration of how almost all college males (3 million at the time) were draft dodgers, even the pro-war ones. The point is that revisionist history now states that "draft dodgers" were small in number, and the younger generation thinks that is the truth. As for the one incident of spitting on returning military in the Bay Area, that didn't hit the media until several years after it happened. I assume it really happened, though the story came out via angry veteran's groups who felt oppressed. I assume it's been documented, because I haven't read it, but I'm not doubting it. At the outset of the Iraqi War, there was much "debate" on the ESPN general board, complete with death threats against the majority to be silent. It was basically people who couldn't spell, calling "stupid" all the people with degrees. One Marine invited more militant anti-Iraq War posters than I was to meet him to get beaten up at the Chicago airport, where he could go via Space Available. Once the war turned sour and the proponents fell silent, the board predictably changed its policy and deleted political posts.
Are you insinuating that individuals that join the military do not have degrees, or are somehow not intelligent enough to obtain one?
My grandfather was apart of the D-Day invasion in Normandy. His son was on the frontlines in Vietnam and survived. It was traumatizing as to this day he wont talk about what they did. One day during the summer after he graduated HS he got a letter in the mail - he was drafted to fight in Vietnam as a Marine. Going back even further, I have the purple heart my g-Grandfather got during WW1. He was shot in Serbia-Montenegro.
It's kind of cool to see what ESPN's doing--even though they messed up and went to West Point for their studio sets. I mean, nothing against the Woops, but the Hudson River Valley in November? Really?
My grandfather was killed on Sept 4, 1943 in WWII when the boat he was on (LST-473) was bombed. His name is on the Memorial Wall at the Memorial Coliseum. Last year I got Email from someone whose grandfather served with my grandfather on LST-473. Her grandfather had a photo (of my father as a kid) and a letter that he gathered after my grandfather's death. Somehow it never made it to next of kin. The letter was to my dad. It was heartbreaking.
In the 60’s and early 70’s, if your draft lottery number was a high one, you were not at much risk of being drafted. The higher the number, the less risk. They never called up every draft number, to my recollection. If your friend had a very high number, there was no reason to dodge the draft, because he was not going to be drafted. To then set down an educational path to a civilian career was NOT dodging the draft. If you legitimately were going to school to get an education, regardless of lottery number, you were not dodging the draft either. Only if you failed to report if your number was called up. The draft dodgers went to college with the intent of getting a deferment, if they were called up. Lots of those guys chose underwater basket weaving for their majors, and had trouble graduating because they were always partying instead of studying. Lots of draft dodgers went out of country to avoid the draft, mostly to Canada. Many, if not most, of them drew low numbers in the draft lottery, hence were going into the army, if they didn’t enlist in another branch of the service before the Army called them up. They chose to dodge service by leaving the US. There were other ways that people chose to dodge the draft. Some purposely tried to fail the medical exam. Some claimed they couldn’t serve because of religious believes when they were not religious. But they were in the VAST MINORITY. Far and away, most men that were called, reported for duty. To say that there were millions of draft dodgers is just making shit up. As for you calling current service men and women stupid….it’s a damned same you didn’t meet that stupid marine to see what he had to say. He might have convinced you he wasn’t so dumb. Veterans ROCK, and if you can’t get there on their day, too fucking bad for you. The good news for you is that you get the benefit of veterans’ (and their families’) service and sacrifices whether you like it or not.
My grandfather served in Africa during WW II, and was a boxing champion in the army. My other grandfather was hit by a trolley when he was a kid and walked the rest of his life on wooden legs (couldn't serve). My father was a captain in the Army, a doctor who served at Walter Reed; he was a between the wars age (too young for WW II and Korea, too old for Vietnam). I was too young (barely) for Vietnam and too old for Gulf War I. I was ready to enlist if we went to war with Iran in the mid 1980s. I think this thread is a wonderful gesture. I also think it's fine to display anti-war sentiment especially regarding Vietnam. Peace.
Can someone lift the restriction for rep points and just give OldGuy 1,000 of them? My deepest thanks to all the veterans out there. Your service has not only defended this country and kept it free, but also liberated more people than any other country in human history.
